"And then we hippies will rule this brave, new world! Muah-ha-ha-ha-ha!"

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

BTW: the OP also started that epically-long thread on sci-fi leading us on research and policy.

a geek named Bob (1,508 posts)

How many people here want a country of low energy, low tech farms?

 The reason I ask, is that I've seen a number of threads that seem giddy in anticipation of Gridcrash.
 
Discuss...

Vincardog (16,707 posts)

3. Who do you think is best positioned to survive the coming crash?

a geek named Bob (1,508 posts)

12. any group with varied talents...

as long as they've got the following:
-a medic
-a welder/fitter
-a grower
-someone with electrical training

No dilithium extractors?

Shitty Mitty (54 posts)

146. Whoever has the most guns and ammo

Just keepin' it real

a geek named Bob (1,508 posts)

148. worse comes to worse...

my friends and just wait out the gun crowd...

We've got swords, knives, and training...

So, you're confronted by an overweight, middle-aged liberal with a neck-beard, a pair of crocs and a replica sword from Conan the Barbarian movie.

What do you do?

XemaSab (56,254 posts)

165. And you're unable and unwilling to learn anything about growing food

n/t

a geek named Bob (1,508 posts)

166. strange...

I believe I said my wife and I grow a good deal of our own food...

WHY do you want people to live like dark ages peasants?

XemaSab (56,254 posts)

176. Do the words

COARSE-LOAMY, MIXED, SUPERACTIVE, NONACID, THERMIC MOLLIC XEROFLUVENT mean anything to you?
 
How about FINE-SILTY, MIXED, SUPERACTIVE, CALCAREOUS, MESIC AERIC HALAQUEPT?

Or FINE, MIXED, ACTIVE, THERMIC ABRUPTIC DURIXERALF?

Yeah, I didn't think so.

Who's a dick?



You're a dick!

Frustratedlady (8,106 posts)

43. Amen! I think if Obama is elected, he will hit wind/solar hard to get our dependence on coal/oil

reduced. As for farms, we never should have allowed the family farms to be destroyed and taken over by corporations. They are a PITA to their neighbors.

Now I see how you got that user name.

Speck Tater (9,605 posts)

8. Me! Me! I want us all to be Amish and sing Kumbaya around the campfire.

By the way, did you know that "Kumbaya" is actually "kum by ya" which translates from the Creole as "come by here". "Come by here my lord...".
 
[sarcasm smilie]

BOG PERSON (2,621 posts)

11. it would give the unemployed something to do

if capital-intensive farming was no longer sustainable

just like in the loser countries

a geek named Bob (1,508 posts)

13. how about bringing those jobs back, and not relegating others to drudge work?

BOG PERSON (2,621 posts)

15. that would be nice?

a geek named Bob (1,508 posts)

18. I think it would...

Forcing folks to work on farms isn't very nice...

BOG PERSON (2,621 posts)

61. phsyical force, market force

same outcome

50 cents off coupons: like a loaded gun to your head

a geek named Bob (1,508 posts)

66. I call BS on that one...

BOG PERSON, I have to "somewhat respectfully disagree"

Cambodia had the ruling group KILLING people who wouldn't work the fields. (they also killed people just because...)
 
pretty much serves as my starting example for a case against communism and socialism...

BOG PERSON (2,621 posts)

72. whatever

the fact is societies need people to do certain unenjoyable work (not degrading) to survive and grow. society doesnt operate on volunteerism. people are either compelled by the threat of privation or something else.

BOG PERSON (2,621 posts)

78. proof of what

that agriculture is important but nobody likes doing it? uhh

10 million people die every year of starvation. why are you okay with that.

hunter (14,109 posts)

74. We already do force folks to work on farms...

... and we call them "illegal."

I support liberating them back to their homes.

And then there's a big, long fight over organic fertilizer.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021402504

[Toastedturningtidelegs]

BOG PERSON (2,621 posts)

72. whatever

the fact is societies need people to do certain unenjoyable work (not degrading) to survive and grow. society doesnt operate on volunteerism. people are either compelled by the threat of privation or something else.

GOD DAMN FILTHY FREEPER TROLL! GO BACK TO FREE REPUBLIC 1111111

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

Odin2005 (45,920 posts)

58. Frankly, I consider the Deep Ecology people to be delusional romantics.

Last edited Sun Sep 23, 2012, 05:33 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

The delusion being that Mother Nature is a kind nurturing mother who takes care of us and that technology is hurting her. It is in fact the Christian doctrine of Original Sin under a New Age Neo-Pagan guise.
 
Then when you refute their arguments they pull the "This is what ancient Native American wisdom says, so you are a bigot who hate Native Americans!!!" or some similar Noble Savage BS.

I would have thought the idea behind OS would be to claim nature would always be kind...had humanity not sinned.

But he did, now he has to toil.

MadHound (32,226 posts)

123. Something for you to consider,







"Industrial agriculture is an inefficient and wasteful system which is chemical intensive, fossil fuel intensive and capital intensive. It destroys nature's capital on the one hand and society’s capital on the other, by displacing small farms and destroying health. According to David Pimentel, professor of ecology and agricultural sciences at Cornell University, it uses 10 units of energy as input to produce one unit of energy as food.
 
This waste is amplified by another factor of 10 when animals are put in factory farms and fed grain, instead of grass in free range ecological systems. Rob Johnston celebrates these animal prisons as efficient, ignoring the fact that it takes 7kg of grain to produce one kg of beef, 4kg of grain to produce 1kg of pork and 2.4kg of grain to produce 1kg of chicken.
 
The diversion of food grains to feed is a major contributor to world hunger. And the shadow acres to produce this grain are never counted. Europe uses 7 times the area outside Europe to produce feed for its factory farms."
 http://www.commondreams.org/view/2012/09/23-4

I'm not giddy about gridcrash, but I see it happening relatively soon, within the next thirty years. The American empire is collapsing, and much like Rome, it is going to take much of the rest of the world with it.

Yes, those massive corporate farms always look to increase outlays tenfold before profit.

And in the next thread they'll be bitching about how mass produced food entices people to eat at McDonald's o\instead of Whole Foods because it is cursed with being lower cost.

a geek named Bob (1,508 posts)

130. At this point, the movement to re-build the grid makes the big oil/Ag/etc. obsolete...

Until they outlaw home generators, they can't close up the net.
Until they can restrict buying tools, they can't stop the Makers.

And the change is already happening.

That's sort of the point of a distributed, robust system. No one bunch of idiots (commie terrorist or big oil) can shut the whole thing down. Every person buying some solar panels, every person buying their generation power via solar/wind/hydro buy-ins...
 makes up the distributed grids...

MadHound (32,226 posts)

134. What percentage of the electricity produced in this country is done by green energy?

What percentage is produced by fossil fuels?

Oh, yeah, about fourteen percent, up from approximately four percent thirty years ago. That's not much of an increase. With the advent of fracking, big oil and gas is more entrenched than ever, and now able to buy even more politicians.
 
You can wish that we have this grand switch by 2039, but it simply isn't going to happen. Power is never relinquished willingly, and energy is power.

The mask slips again.

Mojorabbit (11,472 posts)

147. I agree with you. It would take a huge uprising

against the status quo and it will not happen. We will leave it till it is too late to do anything about it. I think the population is supposed to double by 2050. Just is not sustainable.

And OWS has shown us the way!

[NHSparky]

Yes, because paving over most of the Southwest with solar cells will supply all our needs...until it gets dark, or something like that.  (Hint to DUmmies--you know what 1/3 of the photovoltaic solar cells currently manufactured are used for?  Hint: solar calculators.  I shit you not.)

a geek named Bob (1,508 posts)

12. any group with varied talents...

as long as they've got the following:
-a medic
-a welder/fitter
-a grower
-someone with electrical training

Oh, looky there, I have experience in all four of those (not EMT like nadin, mind you, but enough to treat someone until I can get them to competent medical help) and a few other skills besides...like canning, hunting, and electronics, among others.

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

I'm a medic.

So remember ladies: when the Alpacalypse hits take off your clothes and do what the nice medic tells you.

[NHSparky]

I'm a medic.

So remember ladies: when the Alpacalypse hits take off your clothes and do what the nice medic tells you.

See, I KNEW that course I took in Amateur Gynecology would come in useful someday!!

[Randy]

Wait!!

Did I see them advocating people being forced into farm work, you know like slaves or something. 

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

Wait!!

Did I see them advocating people being forced into farm work, you know like slaves or something. 

Yes, but they all have Asperger's Syndrome so they're on disability.

[JohnnyReb]

The end comes and on every street corner there are multitudes of DUmmies with signs....each trying to out do the other.

"BA IN ART WILL WORK FOR FOOD"

"MA IN WYMINS STUDIES WILL REALLY WORK FOR FOOD"

"PhD IN POLITICAL SCIENCE WILL REALLY REALLY WORK FOR FOOD"

"OUT AND OUT COMMUNIST WILL REALLY REALLY REALLY WORK FOR FOOD"
 
...and 1/2 mile down the road is large billboard.

    HELP WANTED
Republican with guns, ammo and food
  has steady work for grave diggers
     no formal education required

[Cruise]

My husband and I took a cross-country trip last year, going through the relatively unbeaten path through Idaho, Utah, Kansas.  We were struck at how the country landscape has been ruined with windmills.  They are everywhere, everywhere, everywhere and needless to say, major eyesores.  I can only imagine the long-term maintenance costs must be astronomical.  

I loathe windmills now, and even the primitives would too, if they got their heads out of their little urban NIMBY bubbles.

[JohnnyReb]

My husband and I took a cross-country trip last year, going through the relatively unbeaten path through Idaho, Utah, Kansas.  We were struck at how the country landscape has been ruined with windmills.  They are everywhere, everywhere, everywhere and needless to say, major eyesores.  I can only imagine the long-term maintenance costs must be astronomical.  

I loathe windmills now, and even the primitives would too, if they got their heads out of their little urban NIMBY bubbles.

Those aren't eyesores. To DUmmies that have never been out of their mommies basement those are the magnificent rotating spiral branched "Redwoodicus" trees.

[Mike220]

Since these DUmmies all seem to be Farmer Johns, I'll just use my guns to take them over (swords, knives and training notwithstanding) and reinstate feudalism with them all as my serfs. All the comforts, none of the work. And I can beat those that don't want to work.

[DefiantSix]

So, you're confronted by an overweight, middle-aged liberal with a neck-beard, a pair of crocs and a replica sword from Conan the Barbarian movie.

What do you do?

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DzcOCyHDqc[/youtube]

[Cruise]

Those aren't eyesores. To DUmmies that have never been out of their mommies basement those are the magnificent rotating spiral branched "Redwoodicus" trees.

  

Oh... wow... this website has amazing, amazing levels of snarkiness, and no crutch of the cuss word required. 

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

...and no crutch of the cuss word required. 

Required?

No.

Gratuitously reveled in?

You bet your sweet ****ing ***, *****!

[JohnnyReb]

Just wondering....

DUmmies live like ground hogs in mommies basement...right? Well, what will they do every year when they come out of mommies basement on ground hog day and don't see their shadow because they're in the shade of a solar panel?

[NHSparky]

 

Oh... wow... this website has amazing, amazing levels of snarkiness, and no crutch of the cuss word required. 

That's because cursing is the crutch of the inarticulate mother****er.

[jukin]

I'm not a gynecologist but I will take a look.

If the system crashes, the DUches will be in a world of hurt as those that know how to farm become the serfs and those who know how to shoot and do violence will become the lords.

As 0bama's hero said, "One man with a rifle can control 100 men without rifles."

[98ZJUSMC]

I'm a medic.

So remember ladies: when the Alpacalypse hits take off your clothes and do what the nice medic tells you.

[Airwolf]

What was it that one guy said?

" Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid. "

[Randy]

My husband and I took a cross-country trip last year, going through the relatively unbeaten path through Idaho, Utah, Kansas.  We were struck at how the country landscape has been ruined with windmills.  They are everywhere, everywhere, everywhere and needless to say, major eyesores.  I can only imagine the long-term maintenance costs must be astronomical. 

I loathe windmills now, and even the primitives would too, if they got their heads out of their little urban NIMBY bubbles.

What's fun is when they do this;



I've seen pictures of them burned slap to the ground. They like to ignite prairie fires too.

[jukin]

What's fun is when they do this;



I've seen pictures of them burned slap to the ground. They like to ignite prairie fires too.

They also kill thousands of raptors and millions of bats. The Law of Unintended Consequences is going to hit us hard with the bats.

[JohnnyReb]

Aren't those windmills made in China? Chinese fireworks.