Author Topic: Fall of a nation.  (Read 8258 times)

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Offline The Abolitionist

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Fall of a nation.
« on: January 03, 2014, 09:10:50 AM »
The downward spiral of the United States has been widely discussed and written about for many years.  Liberalism has undoubtedly been the cause with it's seemingly endless list of anti-American activism, from climate change to the homosexual agenda.  As we watch Detroit go from a great industrial city to a bombed out cesspool we can't help but wonder if that is the fate of our nation now that we have a homosexual communist wannabe dictator in the Oval Office and very few representatives in government that are willing to stand up to him for fear of being called 'racist'.

So, with the long list if liberal ills that have seen the country 'Slouch Towards Gomorrah' (RIP Robert Bork), which would you put on top of the list, the one thing that you think has led towards the opening of the pandora's box?

My pick is abortion.  The left has almost successfully reframed the debate by suggesting that people that demand that the killing of approximately 1,000,000 innocent babies each year is, in their terms, a "war on women".  When a country can stand by when over 30 million babies have been slaughtered since Roe -v- Wade then it is certainly willing to let all other forms of deviant behavior to occur.

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Offline wasp69

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Re: Fall of a nation.
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2014, 09:35:10 AM »
You're wrong. 

It was the "death" of God and the Devil no longer existing.  Once that happened, and the libs proclaimed themselves as their own highest power, it was all downhill from there.
"We make men without chests and expect of them virtue and enterprise. We laugh at honor and are shocked to find traitors in our midst. We castrate and then bid the geldings to be fruitful."

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A community may possess all the necessary moral qualifications, in so high a degree, as to be capable of self-government under the most adverse circumstances; while, on the other hand, another may be so sunk in ignorance and vice, as to be incapable of forming a conception of liberty, or of living, even when most favored by circumstances, under any other than an absolute and despotic government.

John C Calhoun, "Disquisition on Government", 1840

Offline dutch508

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Re: Fall of a nation.
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2014, 09:40:31 AM »
1) The destruction of the Family unit.
2) Liberalisation of the educational system.
3) Removal of God from 'Society'. (hense morality)
4) Creation of entitlement generations.
5) Growth of Government.
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Offline Dori

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Re: Fall of a nation.
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2014, 09:43:20 AM »
1) The destruction of the Family unit.
2) Liberalisation of the educational system.
3) Removal of God from 'Society'. (hense morality)
4) Creation of entitlement generations.
5) Growth of Government.

^That

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Offline The Abolitionist

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Re: Fall of a nation.
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2014, 10:05:28 AM »
You're wrong. 

It was the "death" of God and the Devil no longer existing.  Once that happened, and the libs proclaimed themselves as their own highest power, it was all downhill from there.

That's a good answer but abortion still tops my list because when you're willing to stand by while millions of humans are killed in the most grotesque ways then you are open to anything else including that God doesn't exist.
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Offline dutch508

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Re: Fall of a nation.
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2014, 10:14:58 AM »
That's a good answer but abortion still tops my list because when you're willing to stand by while millions of humans are killed in the most grotesque ways then you are open to anything else including that God doesn't exist.

Abortion is a symptom and not the cause.
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Offline obumazombie

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Re: Fall of a nation.
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2014, 11:27:22 AM »
Abolitionist has obviously never read "The Way Things Ought To Be".
There were only two options for gender. At last count there are at least 12, according to libs. By that standard, I'm a male lesbian.

Offline wasp69

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Re: Fall of a nation.
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2014, 04:46:03 PM »
That's a good answer but abortion still tops my list because when you're willing to stand by while millions of humans are killed in the most grotesque ways then you are open to anything else including that God doesn't exist.

Without what I mentioned, sanctioned abortion would not have existed.
"We make men without chests and expect of them virtue and enterprise. We laugh at honor and are shocked to find traitors in our midst. We castrate and then bid the geldings to be fruitful."

C.S. Lewis

A community may possess all the necessary moral qualifications, in so high a degree, as to be capable of self-government under the most adverse circumstances; while, on the other hand, another may be so sunk in ignorance and vice, as to be incapable of forming a conception of liberty, or of living, even when most favored by circumstances, under any other than an absolute and despotic government.

John C Calhoun, "Disquisition on Government", 1840

Offline Crazy Horse

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Re: Fall of a nation.
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2014, 07:02:27 PM »
Without what I mentioned, sanctioned abortion would not have existed.

Exactly
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Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: Fall of a nation.
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2014, 08:04:42 PM »
1) The destruction of the Family unit.
2) Liberalisation of the educational system.
3) Removal of God from 'Society'. (hense morality)
4) Creation of entitlement generations.
5) Growth of Government.

Unnatural as it may be to give you one, a H5 for that.

 :-)
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Offline Dblhaul

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Re: Fall of a nation.
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2014, 09:27:41 PM »
1) The destruction of the Family unit.
2) Liberalisation of the educational system.
3) Removal of God from 'Society'. (hense morality)
4) Creation of entitlement generations.
5) Growth of Government.

Agreed 100%

Offline The Abolitionist

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Re: Fall of a nation.
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2014, 05:41:07 AM »
Abortion is a symptom and not the cause.

One could say that about any of these as well:

1) The destruction of the Family unit.
2) Liberalisation of the educational system.
3) Removal of God from 'Society'. (hense morality)
4) Creation of entitlement generations.
5) Growth of Government.
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Offline dutch508

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Re: Fall of a nation.
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2014, 06:09:07 AM »
One could say that about any of these as well:

1) The destruction of the Family unit.
2) Liberalisation of the educational system.
3) Removal of God from 'Society'. (hense morality)
4) Creation of entitlement generations.
5) Growth of Government.

Um... No. You couldn't.
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Offline FlaGator

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Re: Fall of a nation.
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2014, 08:28:29 AM »
The devaluing of ethics and lowering the bar on acceptable moral standards.
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Offline Eupher

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Re: Fall of a nation.
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2014, 08:44:31 AM »
The devaluing of ethics and lowering the bar on acceptable moral standards.

That might be covered in Dutch's #3.

And I certainly agree that abortion is certainly a symptom of what ails this country, not a cause.

What does it take to value life, particularly a life that is completely defenseless? A certain ethos borne of strong compassion and sense of right versus wrong. A desire to protect that which cannot protect itself. A sense of community, of getting involved, of being of assistance to others where and when needed.

We have lost much of this. Behaviors that were once unthinkable (faggots getting married during a parade; NAMBLA; same-sex "marriages") are now calmly accepted by much -- thankfully not all -- of our country. In our rush to become more "Europeanized" we trounce all over what used to be called "traditional American values" that are now called "racist," "regressive," and even "evil."

No, I firmly believe that the Progressive movement of the early part of the last century and the evils that emanated from it caused a long, slow, slippery slide down into a shadow of what this country used to stand for.

And finds difficulty in standing for it again.

This is what our country accepts these days. And it's a ****ing tragedy.
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Offline The Abolitionist

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Re: Fall of a nation.
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2014, 08:50:48 AM »
Um... No. You couldn't.

Yes you could.

The disease is the downfall of the American way; the fall of a nation.  The symptoms of this fatal disease are destruction of the family unit, crummy public education, an entitlement class, expanding nanny state, border jumpers, abortion, homosexuality, etc, etc, etc.

We can try to save the patient by treating all the symptoms: overturn Roe -v- Wade, reduce the size of the federal government, lockdown the border with Mexico, strengthen the family unit, etc., but the outcome doesn't look good.  Think of this as a root cause exercise.

Now, to get back on track, I have to rethink what the number one 'symptom' or 'root cause' of the downfall is.  Perhaps the abandonment of Judeo-Christianity would be the number one 'symptom' or 'root cause', making it easy for all the other symptoms to manifest themselves.  A strong Christian nation wouldn't allow abortion (much less partial birth abortion), faggots getting married and raising children, widespread drug use, adultery, worshipping false gods (such as 0bama), etc.


« Last Edit: January 04, 2014, 08:54:38 AM by The Abolitionist »
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Offline Eupher

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Re: Fall of a nation.
« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2014, 09:02:18 AM »
Yes you could.

The disease is the downfall of the American way; the fall of a nation.  The symptoms of this fatal disease are destruction of the family unit, crummy public education, an entitlement class, expanding nanny state, border jumpers, abortion, homosexuality, etc, etc, etc.

We can try to save the patient by treating all the symptoms: overturn Roe -v- Wade, reduce the size of the federal government, lockdown the border with Mexico, strengthen the family unit, etc., but the outcome doesn't look good.  Think of this as a root cause exercise.

Now, to get back on track, I have to rethink what the number one 'symptom' or 'root cause' of the downfall is.  Perhaps the abandonment of Judeo-Christianity would be the number one 'symptom' or 'root cause', making it easy for all the other symptoms to manifest themselves.  A strong Christian nation wouldn't allow abortion (much less partial birth abortion), faggots getting married and raising children, widespread drug use, adultery, worshipping false gods (such as 0bama), etc.


Just one element in your thinking begs a review.

The Judeo-Christian element upon which our country was founded recognizes the frailty and fallibility of man. Therefore, the practices that you outlined above are not the result of "abandoning" the JC element, rather exist in spite of it.

Evil exists in this world and the corresponding weakness of man right along with it.

You can't address evil and weakness without first acknowledging the behaviors that represent that evil. What we've managed to do is downplay or ignore those evils under the guise and pseudo-intellectual "enlightenment" philosophies.

A woman's "choice" to end a pregnancy for other than medically-necessary (for the life of the expectant mother, for example) reasons is inherently selfish and self-serving. Some might call that practice the ultimate evil. No matter what label you put on the behavior, it's still a characteristic of humankind to be self-serving.

We've grown accustomed to sacrificing others for the sake of ourselves.

That's weak and immoral.
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Offline Dori

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Re: Fall of a nation.
« Reply #17 on: January 04, 2014, 09:05:27 AM »
The devaluing of ethics and lowering the bar on acceptable moral standards.

"America is like a healthy body and it's resistance is threefold; It's patriotism, it's morality and it's spiritual life.  If we can undermine these three areas, America will collapse from within."

Joseph Stalin


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Offline cmypay

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Re: Fall of a nation.
« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2014, 09:21:55 AM »
I would say that the destruction of the family unit led to the entitlement generation(s). Society has so marginalized the importance of men in this supposed race for "equality" for the genders. Women and men are different and, therefore, necessarily have different roles in society.

Offline wasp69

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Re: Fall of a nation.
« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2014, 09:33:47 AM »
The disease is the downfall of the American way; the fall of a nation.  The symptoms of this fatal disease are destruction of the family unit, crummy public education, an entitlement class, expanding nanny state, border jumpers, abortion, homosexuality, etc, etc, etc.

We can try to save the patient by treating all the symptoms: overturn Roe -v- Wade, reduce the size of the federal government, lockdown the border with Mexico, strengthen the family unit, etc., but the outcome doesn't look good.  Think of this as a root cause exercise.

You've been handed the root cause in several posts, yet you don't see it.  You've been given a direct quote by Stalin to back it up, and you're still postulating.

Why?

Quote
Now, to get back on track, I have to rethink what the number one 'symptom' or 'root cause' of the downfall is.  Perhaps the abandonment of Judeo-Christianity would be the number one 'symptom' or 'root cause', making it easy for all the other symptoms to manifest themselves.  A strong Christian nation wouldn't allow abortion (much less partial birth abortion), faggots getting married and raising children, widespread drug use, adultery, worshipping false gods (such as 0bama), etc.

To eradicate a disease, you have to treat the root cause, not the symptoms.  The root cause has been identified, you need the courage to understand it and act accordingly.
"We make men without chests and expect of them virtue and enterprise. We laugh at honor and are shocked to find traitors in our midst. We castrate and then bid the geldings to be fruitful."

C.S. Lewis

A community may possess all the necessary moral qualifications, in so high a degree, as to be capable of self-government under the most adverse circumstances; while, on the other hand, another may be so sunk in ignorance and vice, as to be incapable of forming a conception of liberty, or of living, even when most favored by circumstances, under any other than an absolute and despotic government.

John C Calhoun, "Disquisition on Government", 1840

Offline dutch508

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Re: Fall of a nation.
« Reply #20 on: January 04, 2014, 09:51:52 AM »
Yes you could.

The disease is the downfall of the American way; the fall of a nation.  The symptoms of this fatal disease are destruction of the family unit, crummy public education, an entitlement class, expanding nanny state, border jumpers, abortion, homosexuality, etc, etc, etc.

We can try to save the patient by treating all the symptoms: overturn Roe -v- Wade, reduce the size of the federal government, lockdown the border with Mexico, strengthen the family unit, etc., but the outcome doesn't look good.  Think of this as a root cause exercise.

Now, to get back on track, I have to rethink what the number one 'symptom' or 'root cause' of the downfall is.  Perhaps the abandonment of Judeo-Christianity would be the number one 'symptom' or 'root cause', making it easy for all the other symptoms to manifest themselves.  A strong Christian nation wouldn't allow abortion (much less partial birth abortion), faggots getting married and raising children, widespread drug use, adultery, worshipping false gods (such as 0bama), etc.


I don’t think you understand the words symptom and cause. They are not interchangeable.

Cause noun
1.
a person or thing that acts, happens, or exists in such a way that some specific thing happens as a result; the producer of an effect: You have been the cause of much anxiety. What was the cause of the accident?
2.
the reason or motive for some human action: The good news was a cause for rejoicing.
3.
good or sufficient reason: to complain without cause; to be dismissed for cause.
4.
Law.
a.
a ground of legal action; the matter over which a person goes to law.
b.
a case for judicial decision.
5.
any subject of discussion or debate.

In this case you talk about the Fall of a Nation. What is the ‘cause’ of that fall. Ref. 1- what is the person or thing that acts, happens, or exists in such a way that some specific thing (in this case the fall of a nation) happens as the result; i.e., the producer of an effect.

My first point was the destruction of the family unit. By destroying the typical family unit, defined by myself in this case as a man and a woman and offspring, into anything else- two men, two women, multiple persons, etc, brings about a specific result.

For example for this a symptom of Destruction of the Family unit would be an increase of single parent families. This in turn causes a symptom of latch door children (those who grow up primarily unsupervised) which in turn causes related gang activity, ect. ect. ect.

1)   The destruction of the Family unit. - leads to…
2) Liberalization of the educational system. - leads to…
3) Removal of God from 'Society'. (hense morality)
4) Creation of entitlement generations.
5) Growth of Government.

symp•tom noun
1.
any phenomenon or circumstance accompanying something and serving as evidence of it.
2.
a sign or indication of something.
3.
Pathology . a phenomenon that arises from and accompanies a particular disease or disorder and serves as an indication of it.
________________________________________
Origin:
1350–1400; Middle English  < Late Latin symptōma  < Greek sýmptōma  occurrence, that which falls together with something, equivalent to sym- sym- + ptō-  (variant stem of píptein  to fall) + -ma  noun suffix of result

Surely you have heard of Cause and Effect?

Overlooking your obvious flaws in Christian Philosophy, I would state that destruction of the Judeo-Christian Foundation is the goal of the left, rather than a root cause (see definition), in order to replace it with a Socialist World Government.

In order to do that the left must first destroy the basis for that Foundation- the Family Unit. Education, and the rest come further down the road, once paths have started.
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Offline The Abolitionist

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Re: Fall of a nation.
« Reply #21 on: January 04, 2014, 09:54:43 AM »
Just one element in your thinking begs a review.

The Judeo-Christian element upon which our country was founded recognizes the frailty and fallibility of man. Therefore, the practices that you outlined above are not the result of "abandoning" the JC element, rather exist in spite of it.

Evil exists in this world and the corresponding weakness of man right along with it.

You can't address evil and weakness without first acknowledging the behaviors that represent that evil. What we've managed to do is downplay or ignore those evils under the guise and pseudo-intellectual "enlightenment" philosophies.

A woman's "choice" to end a pregnancy for other than medically-necessary (for the life of the expectant mother, for example) reasons is inherently selfish and self-serving. Some might call that practice the ultimate evil. No matter what label you put on the behavior, it's still a characteristic of humankind to be self-serving.

We've grown accustomed to sacrificing others for the sake of ourselves.

That's weak and immoral.

One might be tempted to invoke Newton's Third Law of Motion in the good -vs- evil discussion and include the global community.  We would probably agree that there is a global balance of good and evil both current and historically.  I think that for most of American's history the balance has favored good and now that the balance seems to be favoring evil I think we can agree that the downfall is under way.  How did we go from good to evil?  How did we get from Roy Rogers to Miley Cyrus?  From kids playing baseball to kids playing knockout?  How did we get from the Founding Fathers to the dirtbags that occupy the White House and the Capital Building today?  What is the root cause?

Would a million women enter abortion clinics to kill their offspring every year if they had a strong faith system to guide their moral compass regardless of how "inherently selfish and self-serving" humans have a tendency to be?  I think not.
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Offline The Abolitionist

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Re: Fall of a nation.
« Reply #22 on: January 04, 2014, 09:58:24 AM »
You've been handed the root cause in several posts, yet you don't see it.  You've been given a direct quote by Stalin to back it up, and you're still postulating.

Why?

To eradicate a disease, you have to treat the root cause, not the symptoms.  The root cause has been identified, you need the courage to understand it and act accordingly.

Did you fail to read the post where I stated, "Think of this as a root cause exercise." ?

And what is the root cause and why do you challenge my courage?
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Offline dutch508

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Re: Fall of a nation.
« Reply #23 on: January 04, 2014, 10:00:06 AM »
I would say that the destruction of the family unit led to the entitlement generation(s). Society has so marginalized the importance of men in this supposed race for "equality" for the genders. Women and men are different and, therefore, necessarily have different roles in society.

But not in a straight course. That is why the education system had to be liberalized to teach the children it was all ok- single parents, gay couples marrage, abortion, accepting government handouts, and on and on and on...

What our new frined really fails at is understanding the root basis for Christianity:  Love and Forgiveness. He is a hateful little ghey-basher.
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Offline dutch508

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Re: Fall of a nation.
« Reply #24 on: January 04, 2014, 10:03:02 AM »
Quote
I think that for most of American's history the balance has favored good and now that the balance seems to be favoring evil I think we can agree that the downfall is under way.

Debatable. I also disagree that the downfall is underway. I have more faith in the people than you apparently do.
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