Affirmative Action and my other 'racist' thoughts

[thundley4]

Hmm I'll take a stab at this one.  I'd define racism as the making assumptions/judgments/drawing conclusions about someone because of their race, in most cases nasty ones, without knowing the individual.  Essentially believing that people are different (once again mainly in a negative way), due entirely to their race.

That sounds more like prejudice than racism to me.

[Rebel]

Hmm I'll take a stab at this one.  I'd define racism as the making assumptions/judgments/drawing conclusions about someone because of their race, in most cases nasty ones, without knowing the individual.  Essentially believing that people are different (once again mainly in a negative way), due entirely to their race.

You just defined bigotry and prejudice. That is not the definition of racism.

[IassaFTots]

That sounds more like prejudice than racism to me.

That's the problem I think.  I think people are getting racism and prejudice confused these days. 

[Intelligento]

You just defined bigotry and prejudice. That is not the definition of racism.

meant to add- "and treating them differently because of these judgments."

But if that still is not a complete enough definition for you, how would you define racism?

[DumbAss Tanker]

That sounds more like prejudice than racism to me.

Well, he did limit it to '...Due entirely to their race.'  Racism is a special case of prejudice or bias, but for the limited reason of race alone, as opposed to religion, national origin, gender, etc.

[Splashdown]

Well, he did limit it to '...Due entirely to their race.'  Racism is a special case of prejudice or bias, but for the limited reason of race alone, as opposed to religion, national origin, gender, etc.

DAT, I would add that racism, especially the institutional kind that Intell is referring to, would require purposefully putting one race at advantage above another.

[Intelligento]

DAT, I would add that racism, especially the institutional kind that Intell is referring to, would require purposefully putting one race at advantage above another.

I would argue that Affirmative Action (knowingly or unknowingly) puts Students of Color at an advantage over more academically qualified White/Asian/Indian students.  I believe all students should be accepted on merit- if a white kid and a black kid have the same qualifications and the school is looking to increase diversity, I at that point have no problem choosing one over the other. 

[Splashdown]

I would argue that Affirmative Action (knowingly or unknowingly) puts Students of Color at an advantage over more academically qualified White/Asian/Indian students.

...Which I why I would argue that racism is a symptom of the left, not the right.

[Intelligento]

...Which I why I would argue that racism is a symptom of the left, not the right.

Gotcha.

And agree.

[Rebel]

meant to add- "and treating them differently because of these judgments."

But if that still is not a complete enough definition for you, how would you define racism?

I don't try to redefine terms. The textbook definition is:

The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.

What social scientists injected later is immaterial to me.

[Intelligento]

I don't try to redefine terms. The textbook definition is:

What social scientists injected later is immaterial to me.

 .  Because one person defining a term and printing it in a textbook is better than yourself defining the same one.

[Rebel]

.  Because one person defining a term and printing it in a textbook is better than yourself defining the same one.

Nope, the definition I provided has been the definition for centuries. The new definition is nothing but social scientists trying to apply one term to the definition of another. Racism isn't bigotry or prejudice. Bigotry is bigotry and prejudice is prejudice. It's just that laws against racism are constitutional while the other two are thought-based. So, you just make everything racist and now you can't even think about certain things. See how that works out? Now look at the wonderful rainbow. Gaze, gaze into it's beauty.

[NHSparky]

There's only two things I hate in this world. People who are intolerant of other people's cultures and the Dutch.

Well, that and liberals who think they've no faults when the blemishes they point out on the face of others are full blown breakouts on their own faces.

[Intelligento]

There's only two things I hate in this world. People who are intolerant of other people's cultures and the Dutch.

Well, that and liberals who think they've no faults when the blemishes they point out on the face of others are full blown breakouts on their own faces.

And this relates to affirmative action..

[NHSparky]

And this relates to affirmative action..

Ah, $200K for an education and he still doesn't know what humor is.

ETA: And BTW--google the "forced busing" in Boston and "Jones Beach".  Should be a nice little eye-opener.

People who claim the South is racist 1--don't know what the **** they're talking about, 2--are trying to deflect from their own little "issues", 3--probably never went there in person.

[Intelligento]

Ah, $200K for an education and he still doesn't know what humor is.

ETA: And BTW--google the "forced busing" in Boston and "Jones Beach".  Should be a nice little eye-opener.

People who claim the South is racist 1--don't know what the **** they're talking about, 2--are trying to deflect from their own little "issues", 3--probably never went there in person.

I know it when I see it.  Just would prefer if it didn't detract from the points I was trying to get across.

[NHSparky]

I know it when I see it.  Just would prefer if it didn't detract from the points I was trying to get across.

Besides the ones on your head?

Look, scooter, here's the deal--I've lived my life by the principle of the meritocracy--if you've earned it, it's yours.  Color, sex, national origin, what have you, it matters not.

Now I'm being told that such a policy is "unfair" because not enough of a certain class who can check off certain boxes qualify, so we keep the standards high for some, and lower it for others.

THAT'S not racism?  Oh, poor (insert group here), sorry you're too stupid/slow/whatever to play with us, we'll just lower YOUR standards so you can FEEL better, nevermind that you really shouldn't be here.  And what if those barriers (slow/stupid/whatever) are SELF-IMPOSED?  I'm supposed to let more deserving recipients step aside so someone can get a "hand up"?  Really?  Whatever happened to hands up versus handouts? 

Would you not agree that something EARNED is valued more than something merely given?

And yeah, if you have to refer to someone as "my black/brown/green/purple with pink polka dots friend" as opposed to simply, "my friend," then I humbly suggest you look at yourself first, mkay?

[Intelligento]

Besides the ones on your head?

Look, scooter, here's the deal--I've lived my life by the principle of the meritocracy--if you've earned it, it's yours.  Color, sex, national origin, what have you, it matters not.

Now I'm being told that such a policy is "unfair" because not enough of a certain class who can check off certain boxes qualify, so we keep the standards high for some, and lower it for others.

THAT'S not racism?  Oh, poor (insert group here), sorry you're too stupid/slow/whatever to play with us, we'll just lower YOUR standards so you can FEEL better, nevermind that you really shouldn't be here.  And what if those barriers (slow/stupid/whatever) are SELF-IMPOSED?  I'm supposed to let more deserving recipients step aside so someone can get a "hand up"?  Really?  Whatever happened to hands up versus handouts?  

Would you not agree that something EARNED is valued more than something merely given?

And yeah, if you have to refer to someone as "my black/brown/green/purple with pink polka dots friend" as opposed to simply, "my friend," then I humbly suggest you look at yourself first, mkay?

my argument in a nutshell. Not sure why we are arguing.

[NHSparky]

my argument in a nutshell.

Then simply state so.  Remember, we're not as "nuanced" as you Ivy-League types, even if our IQ's and SAT scores are the same, I guess...

[Intelligento]

Then simply state so.  Remember, we're not as "nuanced" as you Ivy-League types, even if our IQ's and SAT scores are the same, I guess...

haha

And actually your post captured it beautifully.

[whiffleball]

I'm thinking you are from the south.  Did not say all southerners are racists- not by any means.  Have family down there who is not racist at all; also have family there who is highly racist.  Don't take an impersonal remark personally, it'll never get you very far. 

LOL!  I simply adore being chastised by the high and mighty.  By all means get on with your 'debate' but try not to be bigoted about it.

[overlord]

More prevalent in the south != non-existent in the north, nor did I make that claim.  I've found in my experience there to be much more obvious racism in the south.  It is my opinion; fine, disagree.  Like I said, please get back to my original argument and stop making this a north v. south debacle that I never intended (nor do I want) to participate in.

You're using your own personal experiences, which I get.  Truly.  The problem with your own personal experiences though is that they are just that; your own experiences.  I grew up and lived in the south until just last year when I moved to Indiana.  The town just to the west of us (called Brownstown ironically enough) until just a few years ago actually had a billboard up that said (paraphrasing) don't you're dark don't be out after dark.  The billboard was on private property so it took forever to have it taken down.  Granted I never saw it for myself so I only have what folks in the area have told me about it, but my experiences there (the county courthouse is there) were interesting to say the least as I have custody of my mixed nephew. 

[Rebel]

You're using your own personal experiences, which I get.  Truly.  The problem with your own personal experiences though is that they are just that; your own experiences.  I grew up and lived in the south until just last year when I moved to Indiana.  The town just to the west of us (called Brownstown ironically enough) until just a few years ago actually had a billboard up that said (paraphrasing) don't you're dark don't be out after dark.  The billboard was on private property so it took forever to have it taken down.  Granted I never saw it for myself so I only have what folks in the area have told me about it, but my experiences there (the county courthouse is there) were interesting to say the least as I have custody of my mixed nephew. 

In the South, you knew who was racist because they were openly hostile to you. In the North, you never knew because they would smile and befriend you to your face, and then call you ****** behind your back. ---Hosea Williams

Here's a good discussion about it:

The North More Racist Than The South?

How many people think that this is true? I was born and raised in the south and recently moved to the tri-state area i.e Paramus, Wayne, Nyc and I have experienced more racism here than in the deep woods of the south. i.e. Miami, Jacksonville,Birmingham, Atlanta, Nashville, the Carolinas. And honest to God in these areas the people aren't rich so I know that It isn't a social bias cause they own 2 family homes and have some stranger living with them. However when I visit more affluent areas the people are nice and I don't feel that stare. For example I went to the Library in a middle class suburb of Jersey and some of the “Caucasians” were looking at myself as well as my bi-racial baby cousins very funny and asking us If we lived there… And note that I said some because I'm not some Black person who thinks that all white folks are out to get me. I love everyone… but I am just curious because I have this debate often and wanted some outside input. SO is there more racism up north?

http://atlanta10.cityspur.com/2009/11/30/the-north-more-racist-than-the-south/

[Intelligento]

The North More Racist Than The South?

How many people think that this is true? I was born and raised in the south and recently moved to the tri-state area i.e Paramus, Wayne, Nyc and I have experienced more racism here than in the deep woods of the south. i.e. Miami, Jacksonville,Birmingham, Atlanta, Nashville, the Carolinas. And honest to God in these areas the people aren't rich so I know that It isn't a social bias cause they own 2 family homes and have some stranger living with them. However when I visit more affluent areas the people are nice and I don't feel that stare. For example I went to the Library in a middle class suburb of Jersey and some of the “Caucasians” were looking at myself as well as my bi-racial baby cousins very funny and asking us If we lived there… And note that I said some because I'm not some Black person who thinks that all white folks are out to get me. I love everyone… but I am just curious because I have this debate often and wanted some outside input. SO is there more racism up north?

I don't think white people in what was (most likely) a largely white suburban area, asking a black man if he lives there is racist.  I'm surprised they had the audacity to ask.

[Rebel]

I don't think white people in what was (most likely) a largely white suburban area, asking a black man if he lives there is racist.  I'm surprised they had the audacity to ask.

And you don't see ANYTHING in your response that's prejudiced? Are you SERIOUS?