Why I am not a Libertarian.

[TheSarge]

My attention span has officially jumped the rail on this.   Distracted by featherdancing kittehs.  Carry on if you must!   

Color me shocked.   


Faced with answering a question that requires a modicum of thought...Bully runs away.

[TheSarge]

If you "need" a draft (assuming that government owns its people like cattle), then maybe the government is too unpopular to survive and should be replaced by something else.

Really?  Did you read what you said before you hit enter?

[Mustang]

Really?  Did you read what you said before you hit enter?

You read my mind.

"Oh look, endless Chinese communist infantry heading our way."

"We can't have a draft, if we lose then it is our destiny to become communists."

[The Village Idiot]

You read my mind.

"Oh look, endless Chinese communist infantry heading our way."

"We can't have a draft, if we lose then it is our destiny to become communists."

How about raise the pay level? There are other ways to raise an army without resorting to chattel slavery.

[formerlurker]

How about raise the pay level? There are other ways to raise an army without resorting to chattel slavery.

..or they could give away cool appliances like banks used to do.   

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

How about raise the pay level? There are other ways to raise an army without resorting to chattel slavery.

How much money would it take to be an incentive to enlist in a war where millions could die?

Then multiply that by millions.

[NHSparky]

How about raise the pay level? There are other ways to raise an army without resorting to chattel slavery.

Dude--have you seen base pay levels lately?  I came in as an E-3 when the base pay was $695/mo.  By the time I hit my first boat (E-4 over 2), my base was $877/mo, plus $230/mo for sea/sub/nuke pay.  $1100 a month for 300 days a year at sea--18-20 hour days, whether in port or at sea.  By the time I got out (E-6 over 12) it was $2010 base, I wasn't making sea/sub/nuke pay, but maybe $1000/mo for BAQ/VHA/Comrats.

Fast forward to today.  Were I still in, assuming I made E-7 or E-8 (but let's just stick with E-7), my base would be $4283, sea/sub/nuke pay would be at least $1400, and we're not including BAQ/VHA or any reenlistment bonus (not that there would be SRB at this point.)

So we're talking nearly 6K a month PLUS housing allowance, medical, dental, commissary privileges, etc., etc.  Fed, state, and SSI taxes are only taken out on pay, not allowances, and SSI is only taken from base pay.

Don't get me wrong--I know when I was on AD I earned EVERY DAMNED DIME I made.  But to say those who serve are chattel slaves is quite inaccurate, to put it kindly.  If we don't like it, we're free to leave when our enlistments are up--nobody owns us, skippy.

[The Village Idiot]

I think the draft was being discussed. Another reason we son't need it is that if there is such a major crisis I think volunteers will show up in very large numbers.

[NHSparky]

I think the draft was being discussed. Another reason we son't need it is that if there is such a major crisis I think volunteers will show up in very large numbers.

Once again, incorrect.  Even in WWII, over 70 percent of those in uniform were drafted.

[dutch508]

I think the draft was being discussed. Another reason we son't need it is that if there is such a major crisis I think volunteers will show up in very large numbers.

No- this started when I said I believe national service should be a requirement for everyone. The libertarians jumped in and declared that I am everything from unconstitutional to pro-slavery. Libertarians are the type of people who complain they are not able to smoke heroin when they want but complain if they are asked to provide service to the heroin industry to help dry leaves.
Liberatarians are the type of people why complain that the country isn't safe, then complain that they should have to be dafted to protect it.
Libertarians are the type of people who say the constitution says the government should stay out of their lives, yet complain if support is slow in an emergency.

As I said in my first post- I am not a libertarian because:

This is not a debate on the merits of the libertarian 'party' but my personal beliefs. You, and everyone else, have about as much sway in how I feel as Ron Paul does in getting my vote for toliet cleaner in Las Vegas.

[The Village Idiot]

No- this started when I said I believe national service should be a requirement for everyone. The libertarians jumped in and declared that I am everything from unconstitutional to pro-slavery.

When government forces people to National Service you'll have high schools assigned to work at abortion clinics and banned from church-related organizations, as an example. There is no way in the world people owe this government years of their lives.

[dutch508]

When government forces people to National Service you'll have high schools assigned to work at abortion clinics and banned from church-related organizations, as an example. There is no way in the world people owe this government years of their lives.

oh...and I'm not a libertarian because it's full of dumbassed ****s with weak strawman arguementation skills.

[The Village Idiot]

oh...and I'm not a libertarian because it's full of dumbassed ****s with weak strawman arguementation skills.

There are states that require "public service" to graduate. There was a girl who refused to "volunteer" at an abortion clinic and they refused to change the assignment. They did not give her a diploma. This was in Maryland I believe, and I think she got into Rutgers anyway.

[dutch508]

There are states that require "public service" to graduate. There was a girl who refused to "volunteer" at an abortion clinic and they refused to change the assignment. They did not give her a diploma. This was in Maryland I believe, and I think she got into Rutgers anyway.

and yet-

that isn't at all like what I spoke about.

[Chump]

Once again, incorrect.  Even in WWII, over 70 percent of those in uniform were drafted.

I am truly curious what the stats are as to how many of those drafted were packing their bags before they ever even got a letter.  What percentage of that 70% were dragged "kicking and screaming?"

[The Village Idiot]

I am truly curious what the stats are as to how many of those drafted were packing their bags before they ever even got a letter.  What percentage of that 70% were dragged "kicking and screaming?"

Thats what we need libtards who want to shoot their superior and flee a battlefield.