Author Topic: Community after TSHTF  (Read 4504 times)

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Offline Mike220

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Community after TSHTF
« on: November 24, 2013, 07:25:10 PM »
As I've thought more and more about saying "**** it" to the current situation, I've been thinking about getting away from the city, buying some land, building a little cabin, having some livestock and a garden and going off grid. Doing it by yourself in our (relatively) stable current atmosphere is fine but what about if the shit really hits the fan? Obviously there's safety (and distribution of work) in numbers, but it brings its own set of disadvantages. How would you view forming a community after the collapse?

In this scenario, I assume that there will be large bodies of people fleeing the cities,naturally desperate and most will be armed with small arms or crude hand weapons and heavy weapons will be few or non-existent.

Here's how I define the choices:

Kibbutz: A centralized village where most people live surrounded by outlying fields for grazing or planting. Provides a limited area for defense, meaning the ability to build defensive fortifications and mutual support is close at hand in the event something goes wrong. Naturally provides the ability to defend in a siege, the downside being of course, the community would lose its fields and anything it couldn't get inside the wall. Stockpiles must be continually rotated to provide sufficient non-spoiled stores. History shows being on the receiving end of a siege is not fun with starvation and disease claiming many lives, but a covered defense from height is one of the best positions. If the community is willing to turn to scorched earth to deny supplies to an attacker, proper planning can enhance the ability to outlast the besieger.

Homestead: A small central community area but homes are spread over a large area on each family's individual plot of land. Mutual support is possible but may be delayed by distance. The central "village" may be fortified but as most people live outside of it, space will be at a premium. Generally there would be no other substantial defenses outside what individual families could provide for their homes, but the dispersal of forces would necessarily weaken those defenses. Stockpiles of supplies would need to be maintained by both the community and each homestead. Otherwise similar to the above scenario.

Isolationist: Just as it sounds, on your own or with your immediate family and all the drawbacks that entails. Small numbers require more work per person as well as decreased security abilities.
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Offline Dori

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Re: Community after TSHTF
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2013, 07:47:09 PM »
I went with the Kibbutz.

This country's earlier days had forts for protection.  They were also used throughout history. 

Didn't a conservative group form something like this?  I can't remember the state.

 

 

 
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Offline marv

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Re: Community after TSHTF
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2013, 08:13:24 PM »
Shell Knob is a very small (pop. about 2000) unincorporated community in rural SW Missouri near the AR border. It's made up mostly of spread out developments.

We live about 7 miles away from "town", and I know just about everybody in the shopping area along the highway.

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Offline JohnnyReb

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Re: Community after TSHTF
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2013, 10:12:27 PM »
At my age, I'll have to play it by ear...isolation to start...but I ain't gonna put up with any BS if I go another way.
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Offline BlueStateSaint

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Re: Community after TSHTF
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2013, 09:30:22 AM »
I chose the default option (Jooooooos!) because the type of community I would hope that would form, and that I would be a part of, would be bigger than the kibbutz.
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Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: Community after TSHTF
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2013, 08:44:05 PM »
Not too nuts about the kibbutz idea (And is that different from Joooos anyway?) as it's basically the kind of Socialist arrangement along Marxist lines that failed again and again here in the 18th and 19th Centuries.  It worked as well as it did in Israel because of the religious and political zeal involved and infusions of cash from Jews and Christians around the world.

I'd rather have a community of freeholders/homesteaders, able to own private property beyond what they can put in a footlocker or sea bag, in touch with each other and contributing their own special skills and gear as partners rather than proles.
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Offline Dori

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Re: Community after TSHTF
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2013, 09:18:17 PM »
I must be misunderstanding this exercise.  I thought the scenario was that the country had collapsed, everything was in chaos and that there was a need to pool resources.   

In our early founding days wasn't a Fort the first choice for safety?  Kind of like the wagon trains circling?





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Offline marv

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Re: Community after TSHTF
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2013, 09:32:45 PM »
I went with the Kibbutz.

This country's earlier days had forts for protection.  They were also used throughout history. 

Didn't a conservative group form something like this?  I can't remember the state.

Are you thinking of the Oneida commune in NY in the 1800s?
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Offline biersmythe

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Re: Community after TSHTF
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2013, 09:52:18 PM »
Not too nuts about the kibbutz idea (And is that different from Joooos anyway?) as it's basically the kind of Socialist arrangement along Marxist lines that failed again and again here in the 18th and 19th Centuries.  It worked as well as it did in Israel because of the religious and political zeal involved and infusions of cash from Jews and Christians around the world.

I'd rather have a community of freeholders/homesteaders, able to own private property beyond what they can put in a footlocker or sea bag, in touch with each other and contributing their own special skills and gear as partners rather than proles.

Yep what he said   :agree:
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Offline Mike220

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Re: Community after TSHTF
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2013, 09:54:43 PM »
I must be misunderstanding this exercise.  I thought the scenario was that the country had collapsed, everything was in chaos and that there was a need to pool resources.   

In our early founding days wasn't a Fort the first choice for safety?  Kind of like the wagon trains circling?


I'm asking what you personally would prefer. The security that comes with a tight knit community or going it on your own and trusting your security to yourself.
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Offline Mike220

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Re: Community after TSHTF
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2013, 09:58:42 PM »
Not too nuts about the kibbutz idea (And is that different from Joooos anyway?) as it's basically the kind of Socialist arrangement along Marxist lines that failed again and again here in the 18th and 19th Centuries.  It worked as well as it did in Israel because of the religious and political zeal involved and infusions of cash from Jews and Christians around the world.

I'd rather have a community of freeholders/homesteaders, able to own private property beyond what they can put in a footlocker or sea bag, in touch with each other and contributing their own special skills and gear as partners rather than proles.

It was the best example I could come up with... That or a medieval village.

I didn't necessarily mean the governmental aspects that is/was present in the kibbutz movement, but more the idea of strength in numbers. The government setup would be the choice of the citizens.

I'd personally prefer the first option for the first year or two second option once the situation stabilized and agriculture and a new society is established. Let's face it, in a true end of the world scenario there will be a mass exodus from the cities of angry, desperate and hungry people who will be willing to do anything to help themselves or there family survive. Many will be less than scrupulous and think nothing of theft, murder and slavery to ease their plight. The stupid die first and as you get farther from the cities, the truly cunning (and dangerous) survive.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2013, 10:03:20 PM by Mike220 »
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Offline IassaFTots

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Re: Community after TSHTF
« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2013, 10:03:17 PM »
Yep what he said   :agree:

I went with "other".   :whatever:


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Offline Mike220

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Re: Community after TSHTF
« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2013, 10:03:57 PM »
Blackmail is such an ugly word. I prefer "extortion." The "X" makes it sound cool. - Bender

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Offline Big Dog

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Re: Community after TSHTF
« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2013, 10:12:48 PM »
It was the best example I could come up with... That or a medieval village.

I didn't necessarily mean the governmental aspects that is/was present in the kibbutz movement, but more the idea of strength in numbers. The government setup would be the choice of the citizens.

I'd personally prefer the first option for the first year or two second option once the situation stabilized and agriculture and a new society is established. Let's face it, in a true end of the world scenario there will be a mass exodus from the cities of angry, desperate and hungry people who will be willing to do anything to help themselves or there family survive. Many will be less than scrupulous and think nothing of theft, murder and slavery to ease their plight. The stupid die first and as you get farther from the cities, the truly cunning (and dangerous) survive.

Here are a couple of others, which don't carry the Socialist baggage of the kibbutzim:

1. Norse village, with a fortified longhouse surrounded by freeholds.

2. The American Frontier model, in which a fortified fort with a water source provides a place of retreat, protection, and storage for homesteads "on the frontier" or along the trails heading west.

I prefer #2. My ancestors were Celts and Norse, but I am a Frontier Dog at heart.

I guess that makes me an "other".
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Offline obumazombie

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Re: Community after TSHTF
« Reply #14 on: November 25, 2013, 10:22:44 PM »
Here are a couple of others, which don't carry the Socialist baggage of the kibbutzim:

1. Norse village, with a fortified longhouse surrounded by freeholds.

2. The American Frontier model, in which a fortified fort with a water source provides a place of retreat, protection, and storage for homesteads "on the frontier" or along the trails heading west.

I prefer #2. My ancestors were Celts and Norse, but I am a Frontier Dog at heart.

I guess that makes me an "other".

I'm for that, but with a lot of ...pew, pew, pew !
I guess that made me an "other" too.
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Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: Community after TSHTF
« Reply #15 on: November 27, 2013, 05:19:34 PM »
Here are a couple of others, which don't carry the Socialist baggage of the kibbutzim:

1. Norse village, with a fortified longhouse surrounded by freeholds.

2. The American Frontier model, in which a fortified fort with a water source provides a place of retreat, protection, and storage for homesteads "on the frontier" or along the trails heading west.

I prefer #2. My ancestors were Celts and Norse, but I am a Frontier Dog at heart.

I guess that makes me an "other".

That second one's sort of along the lines of what I'm talking about, except more like, say, Williamsburg.  Any kind of sizable fortification short of WW1 trench redoubts is pretty useless against whatever modern firearms may still be floating around.  Williamsburg had an armory that could serve as a citadel as a last resort but was mainly a muster point and depot for the heavy weapons and the small arms for the underequipped.
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Offline freedumb2003b

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Re: Community after TSHTF
« Reply #16 on: November 27, 2013, 05:26:12 PM »
I have found the series "The Dome" to be really interesting.  I have been predicting the responses of the people inside.  I think they were much slower to get to martial law than I think would happen in RL (but we have to give them some time to realize "this isn't temporary").

It is sort a reverse TSHTF scenario, but when you realize your resources are the ONLY ONES YOU HAVE -- men, materiel, natural -- you start making the hard decisions.

The guy that "owned" the natural gas made the wrong decision.

Just an observation. 

It certainly is a worthwhile mental excersize.

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Offline vesta111

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Re: Community after TSHTF
« Reply #17 on: November 27, 2013, 06:58:38 PM »
I have found the series "The Dome" to be really interesting.  I have been predicting the responses of the people inside.  I think they were much slower to get to martial law than I think would happen in RL (but we have to give them some time to realize "this isn't temporary").

It is sort a reverse TSHTF scenario, but when you realize your resources are the ONLY ONES YOU HAVE -- men, materiel, natural -- you start making the hard decisions.

The guy that "owned" the natural gas made the wrong decision.

Just an observation. 

It certainly is a worthwhile mental excersize.



I kind of like the idea of the hunter gatherer from the time when we Europeans first got here. 

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Everyone had a job from the youngest child down to the elderly.    Tribal tattoos were placed on the youngsters to denote their tribe and prevent incest.

The young men were busy learning how to feed their family, the woman and girls kept busy making clothing from the hides of the Animals the men and boys caught.

Very active lives for them all, no time to get into mischief for anyone, this was their life and they lived it with Pride.

Offline obumazombie

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Re: Community after TSHTF
« Reply #18 on: November 27, 2013, 08:31:11 PM »
I can't help but think of preppers when I see this thread.
I wonder if the cave should have some sort of pre prep plan.
Or maybe this thread unofficially is.
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Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: Community after TSHTF
« Reply #19 on: November 27, 2013, 09:29:15 PM »
I can't help but think of preppers when I see this thread.
I wonder if the cave should have some sort of pre prep plan.
Or maybe this thread unofficially is.

Well, that is pretty much what this particular subforum is for.
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Offline obumazombie

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Re: Community after TSHTF
« Reply #20 on: November 27, 2013, 09:46:57 PM »
Well, that is pretty much what this particular subforum is for.
I was thinking more along the lines of networking. I have done little to no prep, I would be looking for shelter with little to nothing to offer in return. My plan right now is denying that I will ever need to.
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Offline Big Dog

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Re: Community after TSHTF
« Reply #21 on: November 28, 2013, 07:39:10 PM »
I was thinking more along the lines of networking. I have done little to no prep, I would be looking for shelter with little to nothing to offer in return. My plan right now is denying that I will ever need to.

You're a helicopter pilot.

You provide air superiority.
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Offline Mike220

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Re: Community after TSHTF
« Reply #22 on: November 28, 2013, 07:49:48 PM »
You're a helicopter pilot.

You provide air superiority.

Anyone know how to mount 3.5" rocket pods on a helo? :killemall:
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Offline Big Dog

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Re: Community after TSHTF
« Reply #23 on: November 28, 2013, 07:51:55 PM »
Anyone know how to mount 3.5" rocket pods on a helo? :killemall:

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Offline obumazombie

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Re: Community after TSHTF
« Reply #24 on: November 28, 2013, 08:44:36 PM »
Duct tape?
Duct tape makes rockets launched from helicopters produce a distinctive sound !
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