Hey DUmbass Feminazis. This is why we teach our women how to avoid being raped.

[Dori]

And I do think teaching boys that women shouldn't lay there like a dead fish is good, too -- something's wrong.  Either you're doing it wrong, or she's not into it and it's better to stop. 

The first thing I would do is teach my daughter not to drink until she passes out in a guy's apartment.

As far as teaching my son how to have sex, I'm pretty sure "nature" can take care of that. If she's not having a good time he should stop?  Are you serious?  Do you know nothing about the male sex drive?  There is a point of no return dearie.

 

 

 

[lorelai]

The first thing I would do is teach my daughter not to drink until she passes out in a guy's apartment.

As I said, that was my bad.  Even though I'd known him three years and trusted him.  It still didn't give him the right to do what he admitted he did.

As far as teaching my son how to have sex, I'm pretty sure "nature" can take care of that. If she's not having a good time he should stop?  Are you serious?  Do you know nothing about the male sex drive?  There is a point of no return dearie.

So if she says "No" after penetration, is it not rape-rape?  He "just can't stop" and that's a good reason to continue when she starts fighting?  

I'm suggesting teaching men to be smart, and to be gentlemen.  If he needs to get off, he can pull out and do something that I'll not use a more common word for because it's a little offensive to some, and I imagine this is mostly a family-friendly forum.

And that particular release will probably be far more pleasurable than a reluctant girl who will likely dump him after that night.

Edit to add:  I'm not counting premature ejaculation because of the shock of the girl saying no -- I stopped seeing an ex (for other reasons) after a night where yes, I'd had a few, and he started to enter.  I said "Not without a condom!" but before I'd gotten to "C", he finished from the shock.  But he DID try to stop, because he didn't want to not have sex without one either, he didn't realize I'd brought one and it was in my jeans pocket.

[EagleKeeper]

As I said, that was my bad.blah blah blat.

There is a reason I don't tell life stories on the Internet.

They are like bouncy tales, while entertaining and might possibly add some weight to ones argument they are unfalsifiable and rhetorical.

While the story that you spun is unfortunate, it does exactly nothing to move your argument forward, that is assuming that you have an argument that you have not yet made.


Edit: Frankly, I find you boring and not worth the effort to engage.

So post away, your just one more boring mole...enjoy.

[lorelai]

We have your version of the story,given that there was no prosecution could mean that there is far more to it then what is relayed here and yes no matter what you assert that circumstance does carry weight.
You also relay that you clearly and knowledgeably made very poor decisions,I know you are possibly baiting us into something so you can run back claiming "those mean,women hating conservatives are blaming me,the victim".
My gut feeling is that the total truth of the situation is hardly a closed case for your assertions and likely why no charges were brought despite the veiled suggestion that the legal system discriminates against women...in fact quite the opposite is the case so will just have to leave it at that,they didn`t believe a crime was committed and from your own description that is not a stretch regardless of how certain you are of it.

It was an acquaintance I'd known three years.  I did not think to immediately call the cops, so I stayed there until I sobered up.  Those things likely played into their concerns.  It could have looked like buyer's remorse, and perhaps the fact he admitted everything was what made them decline to press any charges.  I would have been happy with pleading him down to something non-sexual so he wouldn't be on the registry and gotten him alcohol treatment.  I also delayed reporting, even though I got the medical exam (which had no conclusive evidence that ruled out consensual sex).  Had I been thinking correctly, I should have called 911 immediately and let them test my BAC and get his statement while he was still drunk.  But I wasn't thinking right.

So I have no doubts that there were reasons they did not prosecute.  He's since, though, been arrested twice for assault and terroristic threatening.  Want his mugshot?  (The address isn't current so don't try to go take the law into anyone else's hands, especially based on what someone posts on the Internet!)

http://mugshots.com/US-Counties/Arkansas/Benton-County-AR/Troy-Allen-Hogan.47071681.html

[lorelai]

Edit: Frankly, I find you boring and not worth the effort to engage.

So post away, your just one more boring mole...enjoy.

Moles deny their true nature.  I was a lurker first, then in my first post, I admitted being a DUer.  I'll not reply to your posts in the future if you do not wish to engage.  But please, let me know if I ever start becoming a truly bad houseguest.  I'll stop rather than cause more trouble, and if this post is you saying that.... then I'll leave you be.

[EagleKeeper]

I don't know...what...do you have a point?


Edit: I will admit it, I want you to post some of your beliefs so that I can burn you down.

I will not chase you around this website in an attempt to force you into a corner so that you are forced say what you mean.

[Carl]

It was an acquaintance I'd known three years.  I did not think to immediately call the cops, so I stayed there until I sobered up.  Those things likely played into their concerns.  It could have looked like buyer's remorse, and perhaps the fact he admitted everything was what made them decline to press any charges.  I would have been happy with pleading him down to something non-sexual so he wouldn't be on the registry and gotten him alcohol treatment.  I also delayed reporting, even though I got the medical exam (which had no conclusive evidence that ruled out consensual sex).  Had I been thinking correctly, I should have called 911 immediately and let them test my BAC and get his statement while he was still drunk.  But I wasn't thinking right.

So I have no doubts that there were reasons they did not prosecute.  He's since, though, been arrested twice for assault and terroristic threatening.  Want his mugshot?  (The address isn't current so don't try to go take the law into anyone else's hands, especially based on what someone posts on the Internet!)

http://mugshots.com/US-Counties/Arkansas/Benton-County-AR/Troy-Allen-Hogan.47071681.html

Bear in mind the story you relay is almost the most perfectly ambiguous set of circumstances imaginable in what is a highly emotion charged issue.
No one here is casual regarding a woman being raped or violated.
There are just odd things in what you assert...wearing a wire requires composure but you say you were falling apart,what is that?
He didn`t incriminate himself that way but somehow did openly to a law enforcement officer and nothing came of it?
Now you speak of a delay in reporting etc.

There is reason to be skeptical and that has nothing to do with blaming a victim so if that was what you wanted it is a fail.
If every last word you speak is the Gods honest truth then of course it is a terrible thing but I see the reason charges were declined being filed in our justice system.

[vesta111]

We have your version of the story,given that there was no prosecution could mean that there is far more to it then what is relayed here and yes no matter what you assert that circumstance does carry weight.
You also relay that you clearly and knowledgeably made very poor decisions,I know you are possibly baiting us into something so you can run back claiming "those mean,women hating conservatives are blaming me,the victim".
My gut feeling is that the total truth of the situation is hardly a closed case for your assertions and likely why no charges were brought despite the veiled suggestion that the legal system discriminates against women...in fact quite the opposite is the case so will just have to leave it at that,they didn`t believe a crime was committed and from your own description that is not a stretch regardless of how certain you are of it.

Gee I never heard of rapists that used condoms.   Had a case in Florida where a 22 year old woman was placed in a nursing facility.  She had been in an auto accident and in a coma.

She was in the home for a few months and began to show signs she was pregnant.   WTF her family raised hell on how this had happened.  What a place to place her family in. Good Christians that did not believe in abortion but under this case what to do?

They did what they could do writing to the local newspapers and begging the local DA to do something.  No one seemed interested until they went on Face Book.      Holy Crap they were undulated with story's about the miss care of family members in these homes from hundreds of people.

Upside of the story, the rapest an orderly was caught DNA, the woman's family are raising the child that will never know their mother or dad .This  is about  as upside to this horror as one can get.

[lorelai]

I don't know...what...do you have a point?

Well, honestly, it irritated me that there was victim-blaming in this own thread, where there had also been death threats against the guy.

If a rapist is worthy of death, yet people will still blame the victim for choosing to go down the "wrong" jogging path... that's a dichotomy that I don't get.  

Something went very wrong in this child's upbringing, or maybe he was just wired wrong, and while he might not have listened to the things I would tell a son if I had one any more than he did to "Don't rape and kill your teacher".... boys and girls both need to be educated about the realities of rape.

We do a pretty good job with girls, trying to teach them that they can't drink like the boys, and that it's better to call the campus safe ride program instead of stay the night when you're blotto (I just wasn't a college student).  Self-defense classes.  Guns, for those who haven't had mental health issues to the point they shouldn't own one (and if I was going to drink I wouldn't have carried the one I owned anyway).  

But I knew this man's mother.  I could not look her in the eye after it happened, because I knew she knew me well enough that she would realize I couldn't be lying... and have to face that somehow, her son was a rapist, and blame herself.  And she was a single mom, etc, etc.  I knew she had a good heart.

But I do think that by letting society keep teaching that boys can't control their sex drive (and usually they start deadfishing long before getting to sex if they're not into it, I'm referring to that as reluctance not rape -- and that convincing a woman to have sex after she's said no many times is probably not going to be very fun sex either, and while maybe not rape, is certainly coercion that is dirty pool at the very least), that it's only his pleasure that should matter, that only the absence of "no" matters, and the suggestion that a man cannot pull out when withdrawal has been a method of contraception used by many couples who are okay with the possibility of becoming preggers but just aren't trying), are all creating a very dangerous situation for boys and girls alike.

For the girls, there's the obvious reasons.  For the guys, though... there are some really screwed up women out there.  There ARE women who will report out of revenge or regret.  There are girls who will not accept the responsibility for the fact they drank and blacked out.  If I'd been blacked out and people told me I was all over the guy (the other friend left before anything happened and all he said was that I was still asleep on the couch when he left), I'd have been kicking my own ass for a really stupid decision, but not crying rape.  Some women aren't like that.  Their friends might not like your sons and lie to the girl and tell her she was passed out, even.  

If, as a man, you don't screw drunk chicks and you think of her pleasure as well as your own, you'll be a smart man, and a gentle man.  And not get falsely accused of rape.


----

Edit was for grammar fail.

[lorelai]

Gee I never heard of rapists that used condoms.   Had a case in Florida where a 22 year old woman was placed in a nursing facility.  She had been in an auto accident and in a coma.

She was in the home for a few months and began to show signs she was pregnant.   WTF her family raised hell on how this had happened.  What a place to place her family in. Good Christians that did not believe in abortion but under this case what to do?

They did what they could do writing to the local newspapers and begging the local DA to do something.  No one seemed interested until they went on Face Book.      Holy Crap they were undulated with story's about the miss care of family members in these homes from hundreds of people.

Upside of the story, the rapest an orderly was caught DNA, the woman's family are raising the child that will never know their mother or dad .This  is about  as upside to this horror as one can get.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19477791

"Never having used a condom during penetrative sexually aggressive acts was reported by 41.2% of perpetrators."  So about half who admit they are rapists have used condoms at least once.

[lorelai]

Bear in mind the story you relay is almost the most perfectly ambiguous set of circumstances imaginable in what is a highly emotion charged issue.
No one here is casual regarding a woman being raped or violated.
There are just odd things in what you assert...wearing a wire requires composure but you say you were falling apart,what is that?
He didn`t incriminate himself that way but somehow did openly to a law enforcement officer and nothing came of it?
Now you speak of a delay in reporting etc.

There is reason to be skeptical and that has nothing to do with blaming a victim so if that was what you wanted it is a fail.
If every last word you speak is the Gods honest truth then of course it is a terrible thing but I see the reason charges were declined being filed in our justice system.

As I said, I know there were reasons why it wasn't prosecuted.  Nope, I'm not upset about being skeptical!  If I had done more of the right things, it would have been more easily prosecuted.  The case this thread was about is one of the rarest types of rapes.  But I can say that I'll never report again if it does happen to me.  I supported a friend through prosecuting her stepdad (the wire worked in his case, he shot himself just before trial).  Part of me is glad that I didn't have to go through a trial, which is why I said I'd be happy with a plea-bargain.

[Carl]

As I said, I know there were reasons why it wasn't prosecuted.  Nope, I'm not upset about being skeptical!  If I had done more of the right things, it would have been more easily prosecuted.  The case this thread was about is one of the rarest types of rapes.  But I can say that I'll never report again if it does happen to me.  I supported a friend through prosecuting her stepdad (the wire worked in his case, he shot himself just before trial).  Part of me is glad that I didn't have to go through a trial, which is why I said I'd be happy with a plea-bargain.

Now that just doesn`t make sense to me.
You may have been victimized by a person but I do not see where you were victimized by our judicial system if that is what you are insinuating.
The accused also has rights and is innocent until proven guilty...if you did not (as you admit) do things that would have brought conviction based on evidence then that is the lesson to learn,not to refuse to report a crime.

 

[Dori]

So if she says "No" after penetration, is it not rape-rape?  He "just can't stop" and that's a good reason to continue when she starts fighting?

 

I don't get this thinking at all.  If a woman allows the sex to get that far, as far as I'm concerned, she already gave her permission and the rape argument flies out the window.



 

[lorelai]

I don't get this thinking at all.  If a woman allows the sex to get that far, as far as I'm concerned, she already gave her permission and the rape argument flies out the window.

Panic attack, from reliving childhood abuse?  (I'm very lucky that my boyfriend of over a year is understanding of my occasional freakouts).  Realizing that he didn't put a condom on and asking him to stop to put it on (of course, I never said that was rape, even if he finished inside me I'd been okay with the sex, just not without a condom.... and since it was all of about 2 seconds, I actually felt sorry for him since he started freaking out and apologizing...) and they refusing to stop but continued, and she fights and struggles because she doesn't want to get AIDS or get pregnant?  Sex started out normal, but he started trying to choke her, call her his b****, etc, or otherwise just got dirty, rude, and nasty and doing things she *hadn't* consented to?

I actually had to ask my first partner to stop the night I was trying to give him my virginity, because I wasn't into it at all -- I was afraid we'd get caught, we were at my house and my grandmother was home.  We finished him off another way, and I still got caught out because Granny found the condom in the trash.

[Tess Anderson]

I've read through this thread and I went to the mugshot link. Just a few things . . .

Both of my parents were physicians, one of them a psychiatrist and this is a most disturbing thread. Moriah, I think you are unwittingly re-creating the abuse, and you really should seek help. Nobody teaches their son that it's okay to take the advantage of a woman passed out, there is no "culture of rape" like this. You didn't "deserve it" but you did put yourself into that situation and you probably will again if you don't resolve your problems.

[lorelai]

I've read through this thread and I went to the mugshot link. Just a few things . . .

Both of my parents were physicians, one of them a psychiatrist and this is a most disturbing thread. Moriah, I think you are unwittingly re-creating the abuse, and you really should seek help. Nobody teaches their son that it's okay to take the advantage of a woman passed out, there is no "culture of rape" like this. You didn't "deserve it" but you did put yourself into that situation and you probably will again if you don't resolve your problems.

You are undoubtedly correct, as I just out of inpatient less than two weeks ago for severe suicidal ideation.  I'm 5 days away from having none of the med that they prescribed to up the Celexa, called Abilify -- they gave me 15 days of samples.  I am calling friends who may have been prescribed it in the past to see if they kept it, even if it's expired.  I've applied for the Prescription Assistance Program.  But it wasn't until I went inpatient that they had an opening for even an intake for me with the local clinic that gets the community mental health block grants. 

In January, I will have a wider range of physicians I can see, but the money I had for the doctor that had an opening may have to be spent on this medication -- not enough for a full month but hopefully the PAP will be approved before that.  I may still not see a psychiatrist for medication maintenance until January even if we didn't have the ACA Medicaid expansion in my state (Arkansas, as you saw, though I moved back to my hometown), given the wait times and the way they claim you have an appointment but when you call the day before you learn they never actually entered it in the system (I'm calling again tomorrow for Tuesday just to make sure).

[GOBUCKS]

This thread has more bouncies than rsmithnumbers.

[lorelai]

This thread has more bouncies than rsmithnumbers.

More of a reverse-bouncy, isn't it?  I mean, I thought the origin of the term "bouncy" had to do with unfalsifiable (which is true of what I've said) allegedly good and inspiring things like cops jumping out of the bushes to say they are burning their voter registration card because it says Republican.

Anyway, Tess was right, and I'm done with this thread except to say, again:  Teach your boys to be gentleman and not screw drunk chicks for their own safety, teach your girls to be ladies who respect themselves enough not to get sloshed or just "give in" and allow something they really don't want, send both to self-defense type lessons, and make sure that if you arm your wife, that you also make sure she's comfortable with the gun she chooses and can practice with it frequently.  There's nothing wrong with a revolver, and their odd shape conceals very well.

Also send them to http://www.corneredcat.com/contents if they've never owned a gun or been interested in guns before and you hadn't already done so.  GREAT site!

[Big Dog]

Lora lie,

I am not going to read all of your personal shit, true or not. I scanned it on the way down the page, and it is exactly what I expect from a DUmmy.

No, but they may feel raped

The world doesn't care how you "feel". It's time to outgrow the 5 year old's mindset that "feelings" are more important than facts.

Here's two simple rules to live by:

1. Actions have consequences. Don't do stupid shit.
2. If you do something stupid, learn from your mistake and don't do it again.

I think I just saved you a bunch of psychiatry copays. Feel free to send me a ham or something.

[lorelai]

The world doesn't care how you "feel". It's time to outgrow the 5 year old's mindset that "feelings" are more important than facts.

If your daughter called you from college crying because she drank something (either too much, or spiked), didn't remember anything, and woke up with her clothing torn or other evidence she'd been penetrated while not remembering it ... would YOU feel that she was raped?  Would you tell her the below, or to get counseling?  Would you want to kill the SOB who took advantage of her state (blacked out or passed out)?  If you would just tell her not to go to those parties and not drink anything at all while there?  Would you encourage her to report it to the campus police if for no other reason than to make sure they knew what happened if someone else came to them with the same story about the guy?

I imagine all of the above, if you were a parent and it was your child. The good but tough advice below, but also recognize she might need some counseling to get past what happened and to address any alcohol abuse problem that might exist.

Here's two simple rules to live by:

1. Actions have consequences. Don't do stupid shit.
2. If you do something stupid, learn from your mistake and don't do it again.

I think I just saved you a bunch of psychiatry copays. Feel free to send me a ham or something.

You like ham, or do you like other treats?  I can bake a mean batch of cookies, and they'd keep okay in the mail.

[Carl]

This thread has more bouncies than rsmithnumbers.

Agreed.

[JohnnyReb]

Thank god, I never had any desire to screw drunk women....they just ain't sexy...Tipsy maybe but drunk or passed out, never. It was bad enough screwing one that was cold sober and not moving a muscle.

[vesta111]

If your daughter called you from college crying because she drank something (either too much, or spiked), didn't remember anything, and woke up with her clothing torn or other evidence she'd been penetrated while not remembering it ... would YOU feel that she was raped?  Would you tell her the below, or to get counseling?  Would you want to kill the SOB who took advantage of her state (blacked out or passed out)?  If you would just tell her not to go to those parties and not drink anything at all while there?  Would you encourage her to report it to the campus police if for no other reason than to make sure they knew what happened if someone else came to them with the same story about the guy?

I imagine all of the above, if you were a parent and it was your child. The good but tough advice below, but also recognize she might need some counseling to get past what happened and to address any alcohol abuse problem that might exist.

You like ham, or do you like other treats?  I can bake a mean batch of cookies, and they'd keep okay in the mail.

Lorelai,

Interesting story you gave.    Have you forgotten the saying " Candy is dandy but liqueur is quicker "?

I cannot fault you and your perceived,  ideas on what took place before and after a black out . Actually you have a darn good memory to recall anything about the attack.

  Are you sure it even happened at all and putting past experiences into the mess, anyone would have after drinking a full bottle of Rum----- .No telling what was going on in your fried brain when you awoke back on the couch with a head banger from hell.    

Now I would advise you of only one thing, do not post criminal records of anyone not charged and found guilty on the internet.     If this had gone to court and the male was found guilty of assaulting you, then they are fair game.    Also the old bugaboo of being  attacked twice comes in here, first the crime and then the court system and defense that would have torn you story to shreds.

I know the victims past conduct cannot be brought up at trial but a young lawyer practicing defense can insinuate it was all your fault.      One cannot lay down on the rail road tracks then sue the train company for running over them.

We all assume risks in life as adults, be it a slip in the tub and knocking ones head and drowning to going to bed forgetting to lock the front door.

As I see it you went knowingly to a mans home after hearing him slur his words on the phone.  There was a second male there and the 3 of you drank a whole bottle of Rum.   You do remember passing out on the couch and waking up on the couch.  Somehow in your story you awoke in his bed and remembered the state of your bra.  No more mention of the other man in the apartment.  Rape  kit at the hospital a day or so later found no signs of sex except as you say some kind of lubricant.

Now how many men who are drunk to the gills will even think of a condom or lubricant, darn these rapists are becoming real fancy about raping an unconscious woman.

NOW for your enjoyment  KAMA-------Man found guilty for raping a woman was given the good news first by the court------3-5 years for the rape, bad news the woman has AIDS.    Records showed the male fainted dead away.

[lorelai]

Thank god, I never had any desire to screw drunk women....they just ain't sexy...Tipsy maybe but drunk or passed out, never. It was bad enough screwing one that was cold sober and not moving a muscle.

Bingo.  That's the point to get across, really, I think.  It isn't fun, and could land a kid in hot water, deserved or not as the case may be.  I think blackouts are the worst situation a guy has to worry about when it comes to girls who are drinking -- the girl *may* be into it and not remember a thing.  If she's legal age, use the universal cell phones to record some of her behavior that night, at least, for CYA!

[Carl]

Bingo.  That's the point to get across, really, I think.  It isn't fun, and could land a kid in hot water, deserved or not as the case may be.  I think blackouts are the worst situation a guy has to worry about when it comes to girls who are drinking -- the girl *may* be into it and not remember a thing.  If she's legal age, use the universal cell phones to record some of her behavior that night, at least, for CYA!

Do you understand the point made though how this leftist push to redefine rape as almost anytime two people have sex trivializes the trauma of an actual brutal attack?