Zionism's Dead End: Separation and Transfer

[BlueStateSaint]

A few things:

1. Exellent points, but I think they'll fall on deaf ears. Facts won't help, here.

2. You need to post more!

1.  Only to the OP.

2.  Yes!  Please post more, sir!

[georgephillip]

We should have just gone quietly to the showers and not caused a fuss...

I've heard this kind of stuff before.

After Europe tried their darndest to exterminate the "Jewish Problem" what does george expect the Jews to do now.

I would expect Jews to reject every aspect of ethnic cleansing and racial bigotry instead  of inflicting their nation on a non-Jewish majority in 1948 Mandate Palestine. What expectations do you have now that there are approximately equal numbers of Jews and non-Jews living between the River and the sea; every Jew of voting age has the right to cast a ballot in Israeli elections, yet a majority of Arabs living on the same ground currently do not: Jewish state or democratic state?

[georgephillip]

Please don't feed the trolls.

I was wrong to interject Zionism into your thread on Radical Islam.
Hopefully, some of the "Heroes" here aren't afraid of honestly examining similarities between radical belief systems like Islam, Zionism, and American Exceptionalism.

[georgephillip]

The http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Israel/Hidden_Roots_Zionism.htmlHidden Roots...

"The web site of the Anti-Defamation League defines Zionism as:

[T]he Jewish national movement of rebirth and renewal in the land of Israel-the historical birthplace of the Jewish people.

"The yearning to return to Zion, the biblical term for both the Land of Israel and Jerusalem, has been the cornerstone of Jewish religious life since the Jewish exile from the land two thousand years ago.... Zionism, the national aspiration of the Jewish people to a homeland, is to the Jewish people what the liberation movements of Africa and Asia have been to their peoples...a vindication of the fundamental concepts of the equality of nations and of self-determination.

"To question the Jewish people's right to national existence and freedom is...to deny to the Jewish people the right accorded to every other people on this globe.

We need to ask: What kind of national liberation movement allies itself in every case and at every moment in its history with the powers of world imperialism?

"What national liberation struggle built its very existence on the colonization of another people, on the obliteration of that people's history, their culture, and their land? The founding fathers of Zionism were much more honest about what they stood for.

"Over and over, one word appears in their writing: not national 'liberation,' but 'colonization.'"

[txradioguy]

Why don't you tell me what percentage of the 700,000 Arabs purged from the Jewish state were nomads as opposed to the number who were living in the 531 towns destroyed by the numerically superior Israeli forces?

So ignore the facts and spew more BS?  Gotcha.

Oh and if you're gonna just toss out crap like what you said about the "531 towns"...provide a link to back up your specious claim.

[txradioguy]

I was wrong to interject Zionism into your thread on Radical Islam.

You should have just quit with "I was wrong".

Hopefully, some of the "Heroes" here aren't afraid of honestly examining similarities between radical belief systems like Islam, Zionism, and American Exceptionalism.

Israel and the U.S. have absolutely nothing to do with radical Islam..

Oh and you need to address this before you go any further.

http://www.conservativecave.com/index.php/topic,88843.msg1103395.html#msg1103395

[txradioguy]

Lords Balfour and Rothschild were clear on the location of Palestine:

"The Balfour Declaration (dated 2 November 1917) was a letter from the United Kingdom's Foreign Secretary Arthur James Balfour to Baron Rothschild (Walter Rothschild, 2nd Baron Rothschild), a leader of the British Jewish community, for transmission to the Zionist Federation of Great Britain and Ireland.

"His Majesty's government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country.[1]"

Jewish mythology was the tool they used to colonize it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration

Why did the Palestinians and the rest of the Arab League reject U.N. Resolution 181?  Why did thy refuse what they claim they want?

Your response to obumazombie didn't answer his question.  But then you seem real good at avoiding truth and giving factual answers.

[georgephillip]

So ignore the facts and spew more BS?  Gotcha.

Oh and if you're gonna just toss out crap like what you said about the "531 towns"...provide a link to back up your specious claim.

Ever heard of Norman Finkelstein?

"Zionist forces committed 33 massacres and destroyed 531 Palestinian towns. Author Norman Finkelstein states: “According to the former director of the Israeli army archives, ‘in almost every village occupied by us during the War... acts were committed which are defined as war crimes, such as murders, massacres, and rapes’...Uri Milstein, the authoritative Israeli military historian of the 1948 war, goes one step further, maintaining that ‘every skirmish ended in a massacre of Arabs.’”9

There's nothing specious about how 650,000 Jews inflicted their nationality upon 1.2 million Arabs in Palestine in 1948.

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/history/ref-nakba.html

[txradioguy]

every Jew of voting age has the right to cast a ballot in Israeli elections, yet a majority of Arabs living on the same ground currently do not: Jewish state or democratic state?

Once again we peel back a little bit of the onion and find more of your lie.  

Most of the Arabs living in East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights, occupied by Israel in the Six-Day War of 1967 and later annexed, were offered Israeli citizenship, but most have refused, not wanting to recognize Israeli sovereignty. They became permanent residents.[12] They have the right to apply for citizenship, are entitled to municipal services, and have municipal voting rights.[13]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_citizens_of_Israel

Again the lack of voting rights you rail against is a self inflicted wound.  They could become full citizens of Israel and vote.  But their hatred for Israel once again overrides commonsense.

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

Only the fed-up European Jews "went home" to an Arab land populated by 96% non-Jews.
"A land without a people for a people without a land" was their first truth-slitting lie.

Those aren't people.

They're Muslims.

I defy you to name 1 nation with a Muslim population that doesn't have a terrorism problem.

Meanwhile, the Jews have done more to advance civilization in the last 2000 years than any singular group in history despite the centuries of persecution.

I'm not throwing away Israel in trade for a bunch of unwashed, murderous sub-savages.

[txradioguy]

Ever heard of Norman Finkelstein?

"Zionist forces committed 33 massacres and destroyed 531 Palestinian towns. Author Norman Finkelstein states: “According to the former director of the Israeli army archives, ‘in almost every village occupied by us during the War... acts were committed which are defined as war crimes, such as murders, massacres, and rapes’...Uri Milstein, the authoritative Israeli military historian of the 1948 war, goes one step further, maintaining that ‘every skirmish ended in a massacre of Arabs.’”9

There's nothing specious about how 650,000 Jews inflicted their nationality upon 1.2 million Arabs in Palestine in 1948.

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/history/ref-nakba.html

So you come here with your stack of anti Israel meme's culled from pro Arab sources and expect us to stand and applaud you?  I haven't heard of Finkelstein.  But I HAVE heard of the site you linked to "If Americans Only Knew" and its founder Alison Weir.

In an August 2009 article published in CounterPunch, Weir wrote that Ariel Toaff, infamous for his charge that Jews had used gentile blood in religious rituals, was “one of the greatest scholars in his field” and that his blood libel had been based upon “35 years of research.” She argued that the “relentless public and private pressure” Toaff faced as a result of his claims was mainly the result of one thing: Israel’s use of “considerable, worldwide resources to interfere with the investigative process.” For Weir, the public outcry over Toaff’s scholarship only proved that other allegations against Israel – its supposed “harvesting of organs,... rampage against Jenin, attack on the USS Liberty, massacre of Gaza, crushing of Rachel Corrie, [and] torture of American citizens” – must be true as well.

http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/individualProfile.asp?indid=1599

Lets take a look at her website shall we?

Be prepared when she comes to your campus. She claims to be exposing media bias but in fact, she peddles an unusually virulent anti-Israel message. Even she admits that “It is hard not to sound fanatic, over-wrought, biased. The lie is too big, the repression too complete, the Palestinians’ lives too horrible to write about reasonably.”[4]

When Weir lectures, she makes inflammatory assertions in a sad, almost monotone voice that makes them seem like incontrovertible facts. She also packs a strong emotional punch through anecdotes and photographs about Palestinian Arab suffering. As one student reported, Weir’s “talk was full of pictures of dead children; most of them were unexplained, just said to be results of Israeli soldiers.….The whole talk was designed to make you feel too bad or too ashamed to question any of her words, no matter how blatantly full of lies they were. I felt uncomfortable raising my hand and telling her that what she said about the history of Israel was all lies…”[5]

Weir claims that her materials are objective because she and her organization“are directed by Americans without bias and ethnic ties to the region”[6] and because they are not “pressured by powerful special interest groups.”[7] As these thinly veiled allusions to Jewish control of the media suggest, Weir and her organization have an overwhelming bias: they embrace the Arab view of the conflict and its demonization of Israel. One of their new board members, former Illinois Congressman Paul Findley, has been one of the most outspoken anti-Israel advocates and was dubbed “Israel’s number one enemy on Capitol Hill” before he was ousted from office in 1983.[8]They also have an explicit agenda: persuading Americans to end all support for Israel. “We believe strongly that if Americans knew the truth about Israel and Palestine-about the massive amount of our tax money that is being given away to Israel, and about the human cost of Israel’s American-financed militarism-they would demand an immediate re-thinking of our policies in this region.”[9]

Weir’s special contribution is her effort to make Americans feel guilty. She argues that US support for Israel “makes us accomplice to war crimes and an accessory to oppression….We [Americans]are driving the violence in this region.”[10] She presumes that we are not doing so willingly. Rather, media bias has “manipulated” us.[11] If we knew the true facts, we would demand an end to support for Israel. Her mission is to spread what she considers to be the facts.

Weir’s inflammatory assertions and distortions are matched only by her lack of information about the history of Israel and of the conflict.

http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/Articles/ifamericans.html

So your sources come from some shrill anti Semitic shill that comes off as the Jewish hating version of Alex Jones and you expect us to suddenly become converts to your crap theory that support for Israel is wrong?

Go over to Stormfront or better yet DemocratUnderground.  You'll find a more receptive audience to your brand of hate at those two places.

[txradioguy]

Those aren't people.

They're Muslims.

I defy you to name 1 nation with a Muslim population that doesn't have a terrorism problem.

Meanwhile, the Jews have done more to advance civilization in the last 2000 years than any singular group in history despite the centuries of persecution.

I'm not throwing away Israel in trade for a bunch of unwashed, murderous sub-savages.

Go back and read where he tries to convince us that Islam, Israel and the U.S. are no different in what their goals for the world are.   

[ColonelCarrots]

In the Bible when Abraham has an affair with Hagar, God says that descendents of Ishmael (Arab nations, the Koran teaches they are descendents of Ishmael.) will be a nuisance to the world. That they will hate each other, that the world will hate them, and that they be a thorn in the descendents of Isaac's side (Isaac being the line that brings Israel).

[georgephillip]

Once again we peel back a little bit of the onion and find more of your lie.  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_citizens_of_Israel

Again the lack of voting rights you rail against is a self inflicted wound.  They could become full citizens of Israel and vote.  But their hatred for Israel once again overrides commonsense.

The lack of voting rights stems from the simple fact that a majority of Arabs living under Israeli laws between the river and the sea currently have no right to vote for those (mostly Jews) who are writing the laws. You seem incapable of refuting the historical fact of 650,000 Jews inflicting their nation upon 1.2 million non-Jews in 1948 Palestine. Do you support a Jewish or an apartheid state in 21st Century Israel?

[Mr Mannn]

So Georgie. Are you a Ron Paul supporter? A lot of Paul supporters are bigot assholes like you.

[txradioguy]

The lack of voting rights stems from the simple fact that a majority of Arabs living under Israeli laws between the river and the sea currently have no right to vote for those (mostly Jews) who are writing the laws.

They have the right to vote IF they become Israeli citizens.  They refuse to do so because they refuse to recognize the state of Israel.  Again...it's a self inflicted wound.

They could easily apply for full citizenship and when approved get the right to vote that you claim they are being denied.

You seem incapable of refuting the historical fact of 650,000 Jews inflicting their nation upon 1.2 million non-Jews in 1948 Palestine.

Because they didn't.  And that has been shown to you countless times here already.  You've been shown the facts that clearly refute your propaganda and have chosen to ignore them.

Do you support a Jewish or an apartheid state in 21st Century Israel?

I support our only real ally in a very hostile region.    Of course I support Israel.

Why are you supporting radical Shia Islam...which is a plague on the entire world?

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

The lack of voting rights stems from the simple fact that a majority of Arabs living under Israeli laws between the river and the sea currently have no right to vote for those (mostly Jews) who are writing the laws. You seem incapable of refuting the historical fact of 650,000 Jews inflicting their nation upon 1.2 million non-Jews in 1948 Palestine. Do you support a Jewish or an apartheid state in 21st Century Israel?

And what about the voting rights for non-Arabs (or Arabs) in Muslim countries?

The only Arab democracies are those imposed by superior civilizations.

[wasp69]

I was wrong to interject Zionism into your thread on Radical Islam.
Hopefully, some of the "Heroes" here aren't afraid of honestly examining similarities between radical belief systems like Islam, Zionism, and American Exceptionalism.

Seriously, why is this worthless cocksucker still here?

[DumbAss Tanker]

Go back and read where he tries to convince us that Islam, Israel and the U.S. are no different in what their goals for the world are.   

A rather slanted interpretation of his original thesis, which was that Zionism, Radical Islam, and American Exceptionalism (Not Israel or America or Islam) are fundamentally supremacist and exclusionary belief systems.  Which is true to a very limited extent, though Islam doesn't exclude anyone based on birth, and American Exceptionalism is more of a cultural bias about the how someone was raised and views the world than a racial, religious, ethnic, or place of birth issue.  But, that small kernel of commonality doesn't render them equivalent or mean they all play out the same way in practice.

Freezing out the shifting Arab demographic balance in the Israeli-occupied territories by denying them any cash flow is a purely theoretical exercise, since as an essentially Western democracy, the Israelis are as disinclined to do the shit jobs in their society as Americans and other Europeans are, so it just ain't gonna happen.  Economically, it's sort of like our own illegal immigration issue, if you imagine a situation where we invaded and occupied Sonora and Chihuahua to battle the narcoterrorists and then were stuck with a problem because now we had a few million extra highly-fertile Mexicans on our hands to whom we didn't want to either give citizenship or turn the place back over to them.

The Israelis could cut loose the territory involved, which would piss off the Zionists and a lot of less-doctrinaire Israelis who have put money into investments there (And, since small radical splinter parties hold the balance of power in the Knesset, is just a political nonstarter), or annex it which would however mean making all the Arabs living there Israeli citizens (Also a political nonstarter with the Knesset).  What they're doing is splitting the difference by keeping a decades-long limbo in place because they can't figure out how to get off the tiger.

[txradioguy]

A rather slanted interpretation of his original thesis, which was that Zionism, Radical Islam, and American Exceptionalism (Not Israel or America or Islam) are fundamentally supremacist and exclusionary belief systems.  Which is true to a very limited extent,

I guess I missed where the U.S. And Israel held the belief that the entire world shod be subject to their religious beliefs or die. Or where our government and religion were inseparable. There is no possible way America is anywhere near to being like Radical Islam.

[Zathras]

So did Herr Gator from CU change his name to post here? Sounds like Gator and Georgie have a lot in common.

[txradioguy]

So did Herr Gator from CU change his name to post here? Sounds like Gator and Georgie have a lot in common.

I was wondering the same thing. All we need now is a long hate filled rant about the IAF attack on the U.S Liberty.

[Zathras]

I was wondering the same thing. All we need now is a long hate filled rant about the IAF attack on the U.S Liberty.

I'm sure that's coming next along with the calling members here traitors for putting support of Israel in front of support for America.

[georgephillip]

I was wondering the same thing. All we need now is a long hate filled rant about the IAF attack on the U.S Liberty.

Tee it up, Bitch:

http://www.gtr5.com/contact.htm

[Zathras]

Tee it up, Bitch:

http://www.gtr5.com/contact.htm

Stormfront is that way ------------------->. Please go there, you Hitler worshiping waste of skin.

Mods, please ban this piece of human excrement.