What Would Jesus Do If Invited to a Gay Wedding?

[Articulate Ape]

Again...You're here to stir shit. Carry on. Not that important to me that you understand.

Obviously, any opinion, regardless of how well it is supported by Bible scripture, is tantamount to "stirring shit" to you.  I must commend you on how tightly you have sealed access to your mind.

[Articulate Ape]

I believe that from man's perspective there are degrees of sin but from God's perspective sin is sin. Christians tend to be proud that we don't commit the juicy sins like murder, rape, theft, adultery,etc but excuse ourselves of the little lie or the occasional drunk, the lustful thought and a nurtured hatred but these are sins and God does not excuse them outside the forgiveness offered by Christ's death on the cross. They unrepentant liar ends up in the same place as the unrepentant murderer or adulterer.

These are the words of a Christian who walks the walk.  Not all that difficult to understand, just uncomfortable to some as the truth so often is.

[txradioguy]

What have I said that is not backed up by scripture?  I have read the Bible many times and have studied Bible history.  Please educate me and tell me what I have said that  is at odds with Jesus' own teachings.  I'm all ears.

And just as you do at ToS you talk out your ass about being a Biblical "scholar"...but never can cite scripture to back up your Liberal view of what the Bible is and what it says.

So just as I did at CU let me educate a supposed "enlightened" thinker such as yourself.

Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: The Pharisees and the teachers of the Law are experts in the Law of Moses. So obey everything they teach you, but don't do as they do. After all, they say one thing and do something else. (Matthew 23:1-3)


Jesus said to "obey the laws of Moses".

Guess what that includes?


Jesus had no compassion or acceptance of homosexuals. This is just uninformed clap trap.

Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate.” - Matthew 19:5-6


But at the beginning of creation God ‘made them male and female.’ ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.’ So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate.” - Mark 10:6-9

Jesus is saying that sex outside the marriage...period...is a sin. Doesn't matter who it's with...male female...whether you go all the way or just play a little slap nd tickle.

Let's look at what one the Desciples says as well. From the Letters of Paul:

Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. – Romans 1:26-27

Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. – 1st Corinthians 6:9-10

You've taken the compassion of Christ and twisted it into an acceptance of gays. This is the same kind of slippery slope loose interpretation of the Bible that allows Libs to claim that if Jesus were alive today he's be a Liberal like them. Neither could be further from the truth.

Jesus has compassion for man yes...but as long as rules are followed. He has no compassion for anyone who is commting sin...unless they repent and follow the word of God.

Now I'm just a Chriatmas and Easter church goer. I should go more but I don't. And I knew enough to blow your little theory about Jesus and gays right out of the water.

I'd hate to see what a scholar of the Bible...someone more "informed" like yourself would do to your hypothesis.


Now go ahead and once again accuse me of being "hung up on sexual preferences" or being "angry".

It's all you've got.

[obumazombie]

I think Jesus would have a response somewhere between overturning the money changer's tables and saying "Go, and sin no more". I would prefer they get the money changer treatment though.

[Articulate Ape]

And just as you do at ToS you talk out your ass about being a Biblical "scholar"...but never can cite scripture to back up your Liberal view of what the Bible is and what it says.

So just as I did at CU let me educate a supposed "enlightened" thinker such as yourself.

Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: The Pharisees and the teachers of the Law are experts in the Law of Moses. So obey everything they teach you, but don't do as they do. After all, they say one thing and do something else. (Matthew 23:1-3)


Jesus said to "obey the laws of Moses".

Guess what that includes?


Jesus had no compassion or acceptance of homosexuals. This is just uninformed clap trap.

Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate.” - Matthew 19:5-6


But at the beginning of creation God ‘made them male and female.’ ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.’ So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate.” - Mark 10:6-9

Jesus is saying that sex outside the marriage...period...is a sin. Doesn't matter who it's with...male female...whether you go all the way or just play a little slap nd tickle.

Let's look at what one the Desciples says as well. From the Letters of Paul:

Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. – Romans 1:26-27

Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. – 1st Corinthians 6:9-10

You've taken the compassion of Christ and twisted it into an acceptance of gays. This is the same kind of slippery slope loose interpretation of the Bible that allows Libs to claim that if Jesus were alive today he's be a Liberal like them. Neither could be further from the truth.

Jesus has compassion for man yes...but as long as rules are followed. He has no compassion for anyone who is commting sin...unless they repent and follow the word of God.

Now I'm just a Chriatmas and Easter church goer. I should go more but I don't. And I knew enough to blow your little theory about Jesus and gays right out of the water.

I'd hate to see what a scholar of the Bible...someone more "informed" like yourself would do to your hypothesis.


Now go ahead and once again accuse me of being "hung up on sexual preferences" or being "angry".

It's all you've got.

With all due respect, nothing you posted was anything Jesus said about homosexuality specifically.  The scriptures you shared that did address homosexuality were written by Paul who, last I knew, wasn't Jesus. 

Just as I pointed out at CU, the Bible doesn't say something just because you say it does, and even if it does, you have to understand the context and, more importantly, who it is that is saying it.  And, as I said over at CU, you and I debating this is rather pointless since you are operating on set of unprovable assumptions and I am working off of words at face value and empirical facts.  Let us agree to disagree since to do otherwise is a waste of our time.

[obumazombie]

I don't know how more specific it can be if someone says a man and a woman will join.

[Articulate Ape]

You seem to have missed most of the content. Or perhaps you can point to the verses where Jesus said that sinful acts were now ok?      Good luck.  (I did notice that you ignored everything selse I pointed out. That does suggest that you have no foundation for a reply.)  

Where did I say that homosexuality is not a sin?  I personally take from the Bible that it is very much an abomination in the eyes of God.  However, so is defiance of any of the Ten Commandments.  It is, therefore, my argument here that, since not one of us is without sin, why should those guilty of the sin of homosexuality be treated as lesser beings by their fellow sinners?  Do we ask Jesus if Jesus would attend the adulterer's wedding?  Or that of the liar, or drunkard, or the obese guy who says, "God dammit" when he finds out the all-you-can-eat church supper is being held on the same night as Girls Gone Wild on Cinemax?  Of course we don't.  So why do some have no problem asking this question when it comes to the homosexual, let alone be so certain that the answer to that question is "no".  

Think about it and I believe, or hope, that you will see why I have a problem with this notion and that God would have a problem with it too.  The entire exercise is very reminiscent of the Biblical account where Jesus challenges the crowd gathered to stone the accused adulteress.  Are we really so ready to cast our stones at these sinners as if we are without our own sins that are equally abhorrent in the of God?  Did not Jesus die as an act of atoning for ALL of our sins?  Was not His message one of redemption through grace rather than works?  Did he not teach us to avoid judging others lest we risk being judged?  Did he not instruct us to do for others what we would have them do for us.  Think about it.  For God's sake.

[obumazombie]

After Jesus saved her life, he told her to go and sin no more. The problem with many homosexuals is they claim that what they do is legitimate.

[Articulate Ape]

After Jesus saved her life, he told her to go and sin no more. The problem with many homosexuals is they claim that what they do is legitimate.

Yes, the do, but what is that to you unless it harms you or those you love somehow?  Isn't their acceptance of their sinful state a matter between them and God?  I cannot say with certainty whether Jesus would attend the wedding in question, nor can I say with certainty that he would not.  I can only surmise what he would do based upon the values he tried to instill upon his followers during his truncated life and things he is recorded as having actually said according to the Gospels.  If I have to offer an answer, I would have to say that he would attend.

[obumazombie]

Yes, the do, but what is that to you unless it harms you or those you love somehow?  Isn't their acceptance of their sinful state a matter between them and God?  I cannot say with certainty whether Jesus would attend the wedding in question, nor can I say with certainty that he would not.  I can only surmise what he would do based upon the values he tried to instill upon his followers during his truncated life and things he is recorded as having actually said according to the Gospels.  If I have to offer an answer, I would have to say that he would attend.

Maybe you are having trouble defining sin. Jesus loved to be around sinners, but he refused to be around those who rejected him or his teachings. He told his disciples to shake the dust off the sandals of the towns wherein people rejected Jesus and his message. I don't see how he could possibly condone by his presence those that deny their sin.

[txradioguy]

Maybe you are having trouble defining sin. Jesus loved to be around sinners, but he refused to be around those who rejected him or his teachings. He told his disciples to shake the dust off the sandals of the towns wherein people rejected Jesus and his message. I don't see how he could possibly condone by his presence those that deny their sin.

Apes problem is he sees sin as a gray area open to individual interpretation. Which is kinda odd for someone who claims to be a Biblical scholar.

He's applying the Liberaltarian belief that it's ok to do something as long as it's not  hurting anyone else to Biblical teachings.

[Articulate Ape]

Apes problem is he sees sin as a gray area open to individual interpretation. Which is kinda odd for someone who claims to be a Biblical scholar.

He's applying the Liberaltarian belief that it's ok to do something as long as it's not  hurting anyone else to Biblical teachings.

Wrong again.  I do not see sin as a gray area at all.  I just see another person's sin as their sin for them to deal with, not mine.  I do not consider that a problem but rather the virtue of avoiding the judgment of others just as Jesus warned us against.  You are welcome to point and pass judgment on the sins of others if you'd like, but I choose not to engage in such folly.

[Articulate Ape]

Maybe you are having trouble defining sin. Jesus loved to be around sinners, but he refused to be around those who rejected him or his teachings. He told his disciples to shake the dust off the sandals of the towns wherein people rejected Jesus and his message. I don't see how he could possibly condone by his presence those that deny their sin.

On the contrary, I am one of those who understands well that sin is sin and that there is no hierarchy when it comes to sin.  To think that some hierarchy exists leaves you with the same false sense of self-righteousness and hypocrisy that the Jesus saw in the Pharisees, Sadducees, and Scribes of the Bible.

[obumazombie]

On the contrary, I am one of those who understands well that sin is sin and that there is no hierarchy when it comes to sin.  To think that some hierarchy exists leaves you with the same false sense of self-righteousness and hypocrisy that the Jesus saw in the Pharisees, Sadducees, and Scribes of the Bible.

Who said anything about hierarchy ? You did. We are to have a spirit of discernment. We are not supposed to ignore the act of a sin in our brothers. We are to approach them and point out their sin, not judging their heart, but judging their action, if you witnessed it. If the one is rebuked then a group should go and confront the sinner. If they are rebuked, the sinner is looking squarely in the face of excommunication. By the same token, we are to be open to those that would approach us in the same manner to point out our sin. If we have sinned, it is not acceptable to declare our sin to be anything but sin. The LGBLT community makes all kinds of assertions that what they practice is normal, and accepted, and beautiful, and not sinful.

[txradioguy]

Wrong again.  I do not see sin as a gray area at all.  I just see another person's sin as their sin for them to deal with, not mine.  I do not consider that a problem but rather the virtue of avoiding the judgment of others just as Jesus warned us against.  You are welcome to point and pass judgment on the sins of others if you'd like, but I choose not to engage in such folly.

So turning a blind eye to sin is somehow righteous?

[MrsSmith]

Who said anything about hierarchy ? You did. We are to have a spirit of discernment. We are not supposed to ignore the act of a sin in our brothers. We are to approach them and point out their sin, not judging their heart, but judging their action, if you witnessed it. If the one is rebuked then a group should go and confront the sinner. If they are rebuked, the sinner is looking squarely in the face of excommunication. By the same token, we are to be open to those that would approach us in the same manner to point out our sin. If we have sinned, it is not acceptable to declare our sin to be anything but sin. The LGBLT community makes all kinds of assertions that what they practice is normal, and accepted, and beautiful, and not sinful.

Exactly.  We are to be SALT.  Salt preserves, salt burns, salt flavors...but salt is never the same as it's surroundings.  "You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt loses its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? It is then good for nothing but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot by men."  Our job is to be LIKE Jesus, who constantly pointed out the sins of others, who was NOT meek and mild but rather such an attraction and irritation that the leaders of His day had to kill Him in an effort to regain control.
When He saw corruption and sin in His Father's house, what did He do?  Did He go away and pray about it, because judging is wrong?  NO!  He called out the priests and scribes.  He fashioned a whip and drove them corrupt sellers from the Temple.  Those that hide behind one verse to forgive themselves from becoming involved in saving the LOST are the ones that have no understanding of the Good News.


Oh, and Ape, you "Biblical scholar" and all... "Therefore the Samaritan woman [!] said to Him, "How is it that You, being a Jew, ask me for a drink since I am a Samaritan woman?" (For Jews have no dealings with Samaritans.)"  It would seem that the Samaritan woman did not consider herself a Jew.  Seriously, for someone that has read the gospels repeatedly, why do you know NOTHING they say?

[Wineslob]

Re: What Would Jesus Do If Invited to a Gay Wedding?

Turn the wine into water.

[txradioguy]

Exactly.  We are to be SALT.  Salt preserves, salt burns, salt flavors...but salt is never the same as it's surroundings.  "You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt loses its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? It is then good for nothing but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot by men."  Our job is to be LIKE Jesus, who constantly pointed out the sins of others, who was NOT meek and mild but rather such an attraction and irritation that the leaders of His day had to kill Him in an effort to regain control.
When He saw corruption and sin in His Father's house, what did He do?  Did He go away and pray about it, because judging is wrong?  NO!  He called out the priests and scribes.  He fashioned a whip and drove them corrupt sellers from the Temple.  Those that hide behind one verse to forgive themselves from becoming involved in saving the LOST are the ones that have no understanding of the Good News.


Oh, and Ape, you "Biblical scholar" and all... "Therefore the Samaritan woman [!] said to Him, "How is it that You, being a Jew, ask me for a drink since I am a Samaritan woman?" (For Jews have no dealings with Samaritans.)"  It would seem that the Samaritan woman did not consider herself a Jew.  Seriously, for someone that has read the gospels repeatedly, why do you know NOTHING they say?

Mrs Smith you're gong to get nowhere with this Charlatan.

He will continue to dismiss anything you show him that flies in the face of his twisted view of the Scriptures and the teachings of the Bible.

He's proven as much in this thread as well as a similar thread at CU.

He is an intellectual fraud and a liar

[obumazombie]

Turn the wine into water.

Nicely Done, Hi 5.

[Articulate Ape]

It is a known fact that the Samaritans were a sect of Judaism, just as the Christians were (and still essentially are) a sect of Judaism.  You can take whatever you like from the Biblical story about the woman by the well, but the facts are the facts.  It always seems to be the facts about your own religion that throw some of you Christians the most.

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

So how about those laws of divorce?

[Articulate Ape]

Which ones?

[Big Dog]

Turn the wine into water.

I do that every time I drink. Turn wine to water, turn beer to water, turn whiskey to water.....

If he turned the water into bourbon, then I'd be impressed!

[here]

I do that every time I drink. Turn wine to water, turn beer to water, turn whiskey to water.....

If he turned the water into bourbon, then I'd be impressed!

How do you know you have turned wine, beer, whiskey into water?

[Big Dog]

How do you know you have turned wine, beer, whiskey into water?

Well, it was 95% water, with traces of urea, ethanol, salts, and various metabolites.