I shut down a winger today with facts I showed him how to research

[Freeper]

Gman
 
I shut down a winger today with facts I showed him how to research

I won't go into the circumstances, but this guy wanted to find out where he could get info to refute what someone was saying about the country having zero debt when Clinton left office. He said he knows its been decades since the country had no national debt. I told him that he was right, that we did have debt when Clinton left office but what I think the folks meant was that we were on track to pay off the debt when Clinton left office.

SOOOOO... not being one to miss an opportunity.... I showed him how to use Google to research things. We found http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt_histo5.htm, which shows in on September 30, 2000 the country had $5.7 trillion in debt. He said "I knew it!" I said, of course you're right! (heh! heh!) I then said, Ok, well lookee here... Clinton left with the $5.7 trillion and when Bush left it was $10 trillion. Gee! He said, you mean it doubled under Bush? I said, "sure looks like it!" (Heh! Heh!) After pondering a bit HE says, "I'll bet it was the wars." I said, exactly, they were never funded and paid for. I also mentioned the $1 trillion for Medicare Part D that was never funded and paid for. He's kinda quiet now. The figures were only good through 2010, but they show $13.6 trillion in 2010. He said well, it's $15 trillion now under Obama. I said, yeah, that's what they say.

Then I said, let's go look back some more. I then took him to http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt_histo4.htm. I said, "Lookee here!" When Reagan took office in 1980 (using the 9/30/79 figure), the debt was $826 billion. And look here... when Bush I finally left office in 1992, the debt was $4 trillion. He said, "you mean they ran it up that much?" "Hmmm... sure looks like it to me!" After a long pause he just says, "Well somebody needs to do something about it. We can't... blah, blah, blah...." I just said, "I dunno... but it just looks to me that here's a lot of info on who NOT to vote for." I also told him simply that debt is not a bad thing. I told him businesses do it all the time. It's called OPM or Other People's Money. I said with interest rates practically nothing, it's better to borrow than to print money and cause inflation. He didn't snap to the fact we are printing money but I was ready to explain how the Fed has it under control by buying back debt. I left him with the same puzzled look dogs have when they cock their head to the side and look confused about something they don't understand. In his case it is something contrary to what he believed due to watching Fox and listening to Rush, et al. I'll see him again in a few days after he has some time to digest and sleep on all this info he had no idea about.

It was beautiful! Isn't the Internet great!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002365404

Gee thankfully we have smart liberals that can teach knuckle dragging conservatives how to Nadin something. 

[franksolich]

You know, this whole thing about the deficit and the national debt is just bullshit when the Democrats, liberals, and primitives whine about it.

I was in college in the very late 1970s, when Jimmy Carter was running up then-record deficits (after Gerald Ford had earlier done the same thing--but of course Ford had no choice, what with a veto-proof majority of Democrats in Congress), and while the Republicans, a minority party, were worried about it, the Democrats and academic economists assured us, "oh, don't worry about it."

Their reasoning at the time--the conventional wisdom--was that it was a debt we owed to ourselves, so no big deal.  I was assured of this when in college all the time, by professors of economics, and of course read in the newspapers what the Democrats and liberals in Washington were saying about it.

But then suddenly on January 20, 1981, the Democrats and liberals got very concerned about the deficit and the national debt, apparently now thinking it did matter.

Why this abrupt about-face, I have no idea.

[Mr Mannn]

I see these threads alah time at the DUmp.

If its that easy to shut a conservative up...why are they afraid to come over here,
Further, why are they afraid of conservatives posting over there?

Gman.
option 1) You are a liar. I don't believe you shut anyone up.

option 2) Here is a clue. If you are in an argument and the other guy stops talking and walks away...its because he thinks you are a raving loony toon. A Moon bat. an idiot. In other words he's walking away not because you are winning, but because its a waste of time to engage you.

But your cowardice makes me go with the first option. You are lying. I don't think you are brave enough to actually engage in a real debate.

If you guys can shut down a debate with just a few pithy phrases...show DU how its done. Come over here. Leave us speechless (typeless) and post the screenprint at DU.
Bragging is one thing. Its something else when you can deliever the real thing.

[Skul]

Idiot is full of shit like a young crow.
Idiot embellishes the story without any clue as to the others political persuasion.
Idiot is a liar.

[Revolution]

Gman (20,100 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore


 I shut down a winger today with facts I showed him how to research
Last edited Wed Feb 29, 2012, 05:43 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

I won't go into the circumstances, but this guy wanted to find out where he could get info to refute what someone was saying about the country having zero debt when Clinton left office. He said he knows its been decades since the country had no national debt. I told him that he was right, that we did have debt when Clinton left office but what I think the folks meant was that we were on track to pay off the debt when Clinton left office.

SOOOOO... not being one to miss an opportunity.... I showed him how to use Google to research things. We found http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt_histo5.htm, which shows in on September 30, 2000 the country had $5.7 trillion in debt. He said "I knew it!" I said, of course you're right! (heh! heh!) I then said, Ok, well lookee here... Clinton left with the $5.7 trillion and when Bush left it was $10 trillion. Gee! He said, you mean it doubled under Bush? I said, "sure looks like it!" (Heh! Heh!) After pondering a bit HE says, "I'll bet it was the wars." I said, exactly, they were never funded and paid for. I also mentioned the $1 trillion for Medicare Part D that was never funded and paid for. He's kinda quiet now. The figures were only good through 2010, but they show $13.6 trillion in 2010. He said well, it's $15 trillion now under Obama. I said, yeah, that's what they say.

Then I said, let's go look back some more. I then took him to http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt_histo4.htm. I said, "Lookee here!" When Reagan took office in 1980 (using the 9/30/79 figure), the debt was $826 billion. And look here... when Bush I finally left office in 1992, the debt was $4 trillion. He said, "you mean they ran it up that much?" "Hmmm... sure looks like it to me!" I also showed him how the debt was $4 trillion when Clinton took office in 1993 (9/30/92 figure). I said, "I didn't know this (heh! heh!). The debt only increased about $1.5 trillion under Clinton." After a long pause he just says, "Well somebody needs to do something about it. We can't... blah, blah, blah...." I just said, "I dunno... but it just looks to me that here's a lot of info on who NOT to vote for." I also told him simply that debt is not a bad thing. I told him businesses do it all the time. It's called OPM or Other People's Money. I said with interest rates practically nothing, it's better to borrow than to print money and cause inflation. He didn't snap to the fact we are printing money but I was ready to explain how the Fed has it under control by buying back debt. I left him with the same puzzled look dogs have when they cock their head to the side and look confused about something they don't understand. In his case it is something contrary to what he believed due to watching Fox and listening to Rush, et al. I'll see him again in a few days after he has some time to digest and sleep on all this info he had no idea about.

It was beautiful! Isn't the Internet great!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002365404

I award you zero bongs, and may God have mercy on your soul.

[Revolution]

Darn it, Freeper. You got to it before I did, but I posted it when I saw it. So basically, YOU made the mods have to move a post of mine.

Tell Frank you're sorry.

[zeitgeist]

I give it zero bongs  


Now for something that applies to the DUmp and most "educated liberals"  I offer this, dilettantism.

Knowledge, the acquiring of information, is the beginning of wisdom but only the beginning.  Knowledge must be combined with understanding to produce wisdom.  Knowledge without understanding is dilettantism.

http://academic.regis.edu/jriley/Educational%20Philosophy.htm

Professor Randall Nelson

I suggest hitting the link to read the full quote.  

[Revolution]

Gman (20,101 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

12. I'm not a teacher, but I've done a lot of training in different environments before

and the way I do it is show them how to find the answer themselves and help them along to their own conclusions with the info they found. You don't always get an opportunity this perfect.

Like Rachel Maddow says, one is entitled to his/her own opinion, but they're not entitled to their own facts.

liberals are. Just ask them. In fact, I've actually seen in siglines, and heard liberals say "Facts have a liberal bias." That's verbatum. 

For Madcow to say what you claim she said is truly stunning.

[franksolich]

Now, this is funny.

Like Rachel Maddow says, one is entitled to his/her own opinion, but they're not entitled to their own facts.

One's kind of wondering if poor stupid Beth ever listens to Rachel Maddow.

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

OK...

...so we were schooled to learn Bush add $5T over 8 years while absorbing 9/11 and fighting 2 wars.

Obama has been in office less than 4 years and matched Bush while the wars were winding down.

Bush gave me 20,000 dead jihadists.

Obama gave our money to his cronies.

[vlad335]

It’s really simple to figure out who is exploding the debt in this country. Just plug in the dates from the Treasury.gov website.

The national debt the day GW Bush took office: 5.7T

The debt when the Democrats took over Congress in 2007 with a super majority: 8.6T

* 2.9T after 6 years of big spending Bush.

The debt figure after two years of Dem control and the day Obama took office: 10.6T

* 2.0T increase in just TWO YEARS!

The national debt presently: 15.2 TRILLION!!!

7.4 TRILLION DOLLARS OF DEBT RACKED UP SINCE THIS COUNTRY WAS DUMB ENOUGH TO PUT DEMOCRATS IN CHARGE!!!!

[BEG]

Who controlled the house and senate at that time DUmmie?

[Freeper]

Darn it, Freeper. You got to it before I did, but I posted it when I saw it. So basically, YOU made the mods have to move a post of mine.

Tell Frank you're sorry.

Ok, you're sorry. 

[thundley4]

Who controlled the house and senate at that time DUmmie?

It's always the blame of the Evil Rethuglican President when bad things happen despite the fact that DemonRats controlled congress.  However, the DemonRat President Clinton gets credit for the budget in spite of the fact that the GOP controlled congress and forced Slick Willy to cut keep spending down.

[jukin]

Actually 0bama has lowered the debt from $9.6 trillion to today's record low $15.6 trillion.

Our chocolate ration has also been increased.

[formerlurker]

National Debt Increased Under Obama Faster Than Any Other President
Zeke Miller|August 23, 2011|11,121|38

(AP)
An analysis by CBS News shows that the national debt has skyrocketed under President Barack Obama — increasing more than $4 trillion during his presidency.

On average, the national debt increased $4.247 billion during each day Obama has been in office.

The national debt increased $4.9 trillion during George W. Bush's eight-year presidency, CBS's Mark Knoller writes.

Obama has repeatedly defended himself from criticism over the rising debt by noting that he took office in the depths of an economic crisis, amid two wars, and with the government already set to run up huge deficits as a result of the Medicare prescription drug program and the Bush tax cuts.

The debt was $10.626 trillion on January 20, 2009 — the day Obama was sworn in. According to the Treasury Department, today the government's total outstanding debt stands at $14,639,239,567,874.38.

Read more: http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011-08-23/politics/30018770_1_national-debt-bush-tax-cuts-president-barack-obama#ixzz1np7DlOq3

[Duke Nukum]

Is Winger still together? What's he talking about?

I figure if they are still around they are on the county fair circuit.

[GOBUCKS]

Is Winger still together? What's he talking about?

I figure if they are still around they are on the county fair circuit.

That reminds me of Beavis and Butthead's neighbor kid.

[Duke Nukum]

That reminds me of Beavis and Butthead's neighbor kid.

Yeah, that's really the only way I know who Winger is at all.

[Revolution]

Actually 0bama has lowered the debt from $9.6 trillion to today's record low $15.6 trillion.

Our chocolate ration has also been increased.

 

 

[obumazombie]

 

I love that embed.
As far as topic, the way I understood our debt, it was a good thing, when we owed it to ourselves. If it was say the same percentage or less of our GDP as to inflation. The strategy was we would sell out debt to ourselves ie private citizens. This would be in the form of savings or treasury bonds. When they were repaid, they were repaid in inflated dollars. Somewhere someone would be stuck with the difference, and that would be the bondholder. They would typically earn a rate loosely tied to inflation, but a little less. But it was a win win because the bondholder valued security over return. If they valued return greater, there were many other options open to them.

[AllosaursRus]

It was the republican controlled congress that balanced the budget, you DUmbass! The President doesn't control the purse strings! Especially Clinton! He was too busy gettin' BJ's in the Oval Office!!!

(edited to add)

The reason we can lay the present debt in O'Bummer's lap is he had a DemonRaT controlled congress and knew when he sent crap to them they would pass anything he asked for! When all your partners in crime are head of the treasury, the Senate, and the House, it's pretty easy to spend other peoples money!

We've finally slowed down the insane spending since we kicked enough of your buddies to the curb last November! O'Bummer is findin' it pretty hard to fill his cronies pockets now that we control the purse strings!

So **** off asshole! Come over here and try and baffle us with your BullShit!

[Karin]

I left him with the same puzzled look dogs have when they cock their head to the side and look confused about something they don't understand. In his case it is something contrary to what he believed due to watching Fox and listening to Rush, et al. I'll see him again in a few days after he has some time to digest and sleep on all this info he had no idea about.

A condescending, arrogant asshole.  Here we have a foreshadowing of a bouncy part II, wherein he'll thicken the plot with a conversion.  In this way, he can earn more bongs by including more essential elements.  We already have that stupid SOOOOOOOOOOO 

[GOBUCKS]

A condescending, arrogant asshole.  Here we have a foreshadowing of a bouncy part II, wherein he'll thicken the plot with a conversion.  In this way, he can earn more bongs by including more essential elements.  We already have that stupid SOOOOOOOOOOO 

Nutcase nadin would sound like this guy if she could speak English and learn the basics of bouncy construction.