Author Topic: If there is no Athena  (Read 2937 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23048
  • Reputation: +2232/-269
  • Voted Rookie-of-the-Year, 3 years running
If there is no Athena
« on: January 22, 2012, 08:06:17 PM »
why did Athens become the birthplace of western philosophy, a force that still resonates in our civilization to this very day?
According to the Bible, "know" means "yes."

Offline ExGeeEye

  • We don't need another
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1570
  • Reputation: +235/-103
  • Spread the work ethic; the wealth will follow.
Re: If there is no Athena
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2012, 03:02:14 AM »
why did Athens become the birthplace of western philosophy, a force that still resonates in our civilization to this very day?
Because of baklava.

Or did I misunderstand the question?
My CCW permit was issued in 1791.

Charter Member: Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy
Associate Member: Basket of Deplorables
Charter Member: Listless Vessels

Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23048
  • Reputation: +2232/-269
  • Voted Rookie-of-the-Year, 3 years running
Re: If there is no Athena
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2012, 07:02:59 AM »
Or did I misunderstand the question?

The ancients believed there were forces moving within the world that exhibited abilities beyond normal human capability or natural potential. Stones, trees and sky do not love, ergo love comes from some source higher/beyond the natural world. However, these forces seemed to be in need of personality because, quite reasonably, how could persons have wisdom if wisdom itself was not person-like; leastwise as far as their conception of the traits of personality, i.e. the ability to perceive, interact, self-awareness, etc. In other words: whatever wisdom (small "w") was, it was obviously aware that it was Wisdom (big "W"). And certainly not all men had wisdom ergo Wisdom favored some men more than others, presumably those men that sought It (Her?).

Now the Athenians built an entire city on this presumption. Every good postulate has defineable terms such as "if thing X in condition Y then state Z is attained." This is a core fact of scientific learning. No one disputes if copper is introduced to a flame a different thing is attained (green flame). No reason person doubts the effects of copper producing green flame so much so that when scientists see green flames they can reason-out that copper may well be present prior to performing a more formal chemical analysis of the flame.

So when the Athenians built their city in search of wisdom, Wisdom answered Her supplicants with wisdom. How many great thinkers emerged from Athens? More importantly: the constructs of rationality came from the sons of Athens. The first inquiries of "how" we know were just as important to them as what we know. The effects of that answered prayer is so abolutely manifest that it is the foundation of our civilization as much as the morality of the ancient Hebrews to which it is wed.

This being the case, if the presence of Wisdom is so manifest then is it so unreasonable to assume the possibility that Wisdom may move within our world as surely as a green flame may betray the presence of copper?
According to the Bible, "know" means "yes."

Offline Rugnuts

  • (not a carpet layer)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1157
  • Reputation: +61/-15
  • (ಠ ›ಠ)
Re: If there is no Athena
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2012, 07:20:56 PM »
is it so unreasonable to assume the possibility that Wisdom may move within our world as surely as a green flame may betray the presence of copper?
only the wise could deem it reasonable.

Offline ExGeeEye

  • We don't need another
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1570
  • Reputation: +235/-103
  • Spread the work ethic; the wealth will follow.
Re: If there is no Athena
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2012, 07:36:15 PM »
The ancients believed there were forces moving within the world that exhibited abilities beyond normal human capability or natural potential. Stones, trees and sky do not love, ergo love comes from some source higher/beyond the natural world. However, these forces seemed to be in need of personality because, quite reasonably, how could persons have wisdom if wisdom itself was not person-like; leastwise as far as their conception of the traits of personality, i.e. the ability to perceive, interact, self-awareness, etc. In other words: whatever wisdom (small "w") was, it was obviously aware that it was Wisdom (big "W"). And certainly not all men had wisdom ergo Wisdom favored some men more than others, presumably those men that sought It (Her?).

They were right...as far as they went.

Psalm 19: 1-6
« Last Edit: January 23, 2012, 07:41:28 PM by ExGeeEye »
My CCW permit was issued in 1791.

Charter Member: Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy
Associate Member: Basket of Deplorables
Charter Member: Listless Vessels

Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23048
  • Reputation: +2232/-269
  • Voted Rookie-of-the-Year, 3 years running
Re: If there is no Athena
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2012, 08:51:01 AM »
They were right...as far as they went.

Psalm 19: 1-6

A beautiful passage, isn't it?

I've written in the past that I don't think ancient humanity was too far off the beam when it ascribed supernatural personality to natural phenomenon. I used the example of fire: a thing that breathes, eats, moves, fights and spawns. In other words, it enjoys all the traits we associate with living things.

Personally, I find it more romantic not less (and if the God of the Bible be true He would be a romantic God, as illustrated by your selected psalm) that a God that created as many living beings in every conceivable variety from amoeba to angels and all points in-between would not stop there.

Of course, I can also understand the Christian reluctance to admit such things as the pagans tended to "worship the creature more than the Creator."

Yet, some things seem to beg that we acknowledge a personality behind their influence. In less romantic terms I've had the misery on knowing a broad array of people who were/are domestic abusers and their actions seem so uniform it could easily be believed they were guided by a singular personality. Perhaps there is a demon whispering to them as their patron as surely as St. Joseph is the patron saint of children. Why not a personification of Wisdom?
According to the Bible, "know" means "yes."