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Offline Maxiest

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Creationism Discussion
« on: January 20, 2012, 07:50:07 AM »
Quote from: Rebel on January 20, 2012, 07:37:06 AM
I'd say about 4.5 billion years.

Depends if you believe in the bible I guess.

Biblical age is about 6000 Years.  Those who don't believe in the bible say its about 4.5-4.6 billion years old.  Either way, a 100 years of data is minuscule no matter which of those you believe.
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Offline Rebel

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Re: Creationism Discussion
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2012, 07:52:27 AM »
Quote from: Maxiest on January 20, 2012, 07:50:07 AM
Depends if you believe in the bible I guess.

Biblical age is about 6000 Years.  Those who don't believe in the bible say its about 4.5-4.6 billion years old.  Either way, a 100 years of data is minuscule no matter which of those you believe.

Where in the bible does it say the Earth is 6000 years old?
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Offline Maxiest

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Re: Creationism Discussion
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2012, 08:11:43 AM »
Quote from: Rebel on January 20, 2012, 07:52:27 AM
Where in the bible does it say the Earth is 6000 years old?

The bible does not explicitly say this, but God gave a clear birth certificate in Genesis.  And following genealogies from Adam to Abraham we get an approximate date.  ~4000 years.  And obviously since the year we are in now is 2012 AD which is since Christ birth (give or take a few years.)

So ~4000+~2000=~6000.
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Offline Maxiest

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Re: Creationism Discussion
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2012, 08:39:20 AM »
Quote from: Rebel on January 20, 2012, 08:14:01 AM
Is that determination from the bit about creating everything in 6 days and resting on the 7th? If so, how do you marry that up with the notion that there is no concept of time in Heaven?

If you believe in Genesis, then yes.

I think more likely than not we will not care about time in heaven, if we live eternally then time is of no concern.

Time is mentioned in heaven in Revelations, but who knows if its the same time that we one earth follow.

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When he opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour.
 
Rev 8:1

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Offline Maxiest

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Re: Creationism Discussion
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2012, 08:48:35 AM »
Quote from: Karin on January 20, 2012, 08:31:09 AM
And how do you marry that up with the dinosaur fossil record? 

Threadjack; we should probably continue this elsewhere, if desired. 

Much of it has to do with the flood, which most scientist don't believe in.  If the flood did in fact happen and the earth was filled with water that covered even the highest mountain by 20 feet then obviously the geological fossil records would be misinterpreted by scientists.
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Offline Rebel

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Re: Creationism Discussion
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2012, 09:13:54 AM »
I just think it does a disservice to the Christian community to continue the ridiculous notion that the Earth is only 6000 years old. It provides ammunition to the anti-Christian DUmbasses. As for the flood messing up fossil records, the Jews have been around for 5000 years. Even if the Earth was 6000 years old, you couldn't explain the transitional phases of prehistoric Dinosauria all within 1000 years and there are no writings where Joshua and the boys came upon a Velociraptor.
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Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: Creationism Discussion
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2012, 09:18:53 AM »
Quote from: Maxiest on January 20, 2012, 08:48:35 AM
Much of it has to do with the flood, which most scientist don't believe in.  If the flood did in fact happen and the earth was filled with water that covered even the highest mountain by 20 feet then obviously the geological fossil records would be misinterpreted by scientists.

Since the fossils are stratified with the higher forms at the top end (Unless you want to go with 'Mastodons floated better than dinosaurs') there are holes in that you could drive a truck through.  Probably better to just stick with "God made it that way all at one time to test our faith when we eventually saw it" if you want to defend Creationism.
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Re: Creationism Discussion
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2012, 12:22:35 PM »
Quote from: Maxiest on January 20, 2012, 08:39:20 AM
If you believe in Genesis, then yes.

I think more likely than not we will not care about time in heaven, if we live eternally then time is of no concern.

Time is mentioned in heaven in Revelations, but who knows if its the same time that we one earth follow.

Quote from: Psalm 90:4
A thousand years in your sight are like a day that has just gone by, or like a watch in the night.
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Offline MrsSmith

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Re: Creationism Discussion
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2012, 08:47:21 PM »
Quote from: Rebel on January 20, 2012, 09:13:54 AM
I just think it does a disservice to the Christian community to continue the ridiculous notion that the Earth is only 6000 years old. It provides ammunition to the anti-Christian DUmbasses. As for the flood messing up fossil records, the Jews have been around for 5000 years. Even if the Earth was 6000 years old, you couldn't explain the transitional phases of prehistoric Dinosauria all within 1000 years and there are no writings where Joshua and the boys came upon a Velociraptor.
Job 40 and 41, KJV
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Offline MrsSmith

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Re: Creationism Discussion
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2012, 08:50:22 PM »
Quote from: DumbAss Tanker on January 20, 2012, 09:18:53 AM
Since the fossils are stratified with the higher forms at the top end (Unless you want to go with 'Mastodons floated better than dinosaurs') there are holes in that you could drive a truck through.  Probably better to just stick with "God made it that way all at one time to test our faith when we eventually saw it" if you want to defend Creationism.
Did you ever do a kids' Science experiment where you shoveled different kinds of dirt into a big jar, filled it with water, let it sit a few days, then shook it and let everything settle?  Weirdly enough, the dirt settles into layers, and any intruding material settles on various layers, too.  Modern geologists discount the effects of the flood because they don't believe it.  If it happened exactly as described, you can prove for yourself that the earth would settle much as geology shows it has.

The fact that all evidence is currently interpreted in one way does not prove that way is accurate.
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Re: Creationism Discussion
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2012, 04:43:56 AM »
Quote from: MrsSmith on January 20, 2012, 08:50:22 PM
Did you ever do a kids' Science experiment where you shoveled different kinds of dirt into a big jar, filled it with water, let it sit a few days, then shook it and let everything settle?  Weirdly enough, the dirt settles into layers, and any intruding material settles on various layers, too.  Modern geologists discount the effects of the flood because they don't believe it.  If it happened exactly as described, you can prove for yourself that the earth would settle much as geology shows it has.

The fact that all evidence is currently interpreted in one way does not prove that way is accurate.

Like globull warming...
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Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: Creationism Discussion
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2012, 11:05:35 AM »
Quote from: MrsSmith on January 20, 2012, 08:50:22 PM
Did you ever do a kids' Science experiment where you shoveled different kinds of dirt into a big jar, filled it with water, let it sit a few days, then shook it and let everything settle?  Weirdly enough, the dirt settles into layers, and any intruding material settles on various layers, too.  Modern geologists discount the effects of the flood because they don't believe it.  If it happened exactly as described, you can prove for yourself that the earth would settle much as geology shows it has.

The fact that all evidence is currently interpreted in one way does not prove that way is accurate.

Well, it doesn't matter to me what anyone believes about it, as long as they aren't a geologist I'm actually paying, or something like that.  Your description is in the "Mastodons floated better" category, and if you're happy with that, I'm okay too.
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Offline TVDOC

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Re: Creationism Discussion
« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2012, 01:09:22 PM »
Quote from: DumbAss Tanker on January 21, 2012, 11:05:35 AM
Well, it doesn't matter to me what anyone believes about it, as long as they aren't a geologist I'm actually paying, or something like that.  Your description is in the "Mastodons floated better" category, and if you're happy with that, I'm okay too.

As you, I don't really care what someone believes, however the concept that the planet is only 6000 years old is simply ludicrous on its face........dragging that argument into politics does our movement real damage, and invites ridicule. 

On the "Mastodons floated better" meme, everyone realizes that in the fossil record we ARE talking about fossilized remains, where the organic material has been replaced with rock........that isn't going to happen in 6000 years, in fact age can be quite accurately determined by the timing of the chemical process that eventually fossilized the bones.  All of this can be accomplished without resorting to Carbon-14 dating, which I assume is some of Satan's work as well.

As DAT stated succinctly.......believe what you want......just keep the more bizarre of those unverifiable beliefs out of political discussions......they make us look foolish (and arguably no different from the Global Warming crowd).

doc
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Offline Rebel

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Re: Creationism Discussion
« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2012, 01:17:47 PM »
Quote from: MrsSmith on January 20, 2012, 08:47:21 PM
Job 40 and 41, KJV

Looks like a bit of a fairy tale to me. I don't remember reading about any fire-breathing dinosaurs. Do you believe the earth is only 6000 years old? And if dinosaurs did exist at that time, and that's what it's referring to, why only two entries in the entire Bible?
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Re: Creationism Discussion
« Reply #14 on: January 21, 2012, 01:33:14 PM »
Quote from: Rebel on January 21, 2012, 01:17:47 PM
Looks like a bit of a fairy tale to me. I don't remember reading about any fire-breathing dinosaurs. Do you believe the earth is only 6000 years old? And if dinosaurs did exist at that time, and that's what it's referring to, why only two entries in the entire Bible?

I suspect that you're wasting your breath Reb........in fact the Old Testament is an "oral history".......passed down word of mouth by the Jews from generation to generation for 2500 years before it was ever committed to writing, and it's filled with legends and myths......even the Jews who wrote it don't take it literally, and I'll always defer to them on this theological issue.

Why some Christians do take it literally, even to the point of extrapolating theories from the words and omissions has always amazed me.

That said, let's get this thread back on topic, or if desired, I'll split this portion of the discussion off and move it to the Religion forum.........

doc
« Last Edit: January 21, 2012, 01:37:55 PM by TVDOC »
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Offline Carl

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Re: Creationism Discussion
« Reply #15 on: January 21, 2012, 02:08:53 PM »
Quote from: TVDOC on January 21, 2012, 01:33:14 PM
I suspect that you're wasting your breath Reb........in fact the Old Testament is an "oral history".......passed down word of mouth by the Jews from generation to generation for 2500 years before it was ever committed to writing, and it's filled with legends and myths......even the Jews who wrote it don't take it literally, and I'll always defer to them on this theological issue.

Why some Christians do take it literally, even to the point of extrapolating theories from the words and omissions has always amazed me.

That said, let's get this thread back on topic, or if desired, I'll split this portion of the discussion off and move it to the Religion forum.........

doc

Please do,it can be an interesting discussion and a good one to have but it is junking up the DUmpster.
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Offline TVDOC

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Re: Creationism Discussion
« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2012, 02:43:04 PM »
Quote from: Carl on January 21, 2012, 02:08:53 PM
Please do,it can be an interesting discussion and a good one to have but it is junking up the DUmpster.

Done

doc
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Offline Carl

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Re: Creationism Discussion
« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2012, 02:56:00 PM »
Can the rest from Sara be put back into the DUmpster as it is now also the subject of the latest DUmmie FUnnies,so CC may get some additional traffic from that.
Thanks. :)
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Offline franksolich

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Re: Creationism Discussion
« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2012, 03:02:29 PM »
Quote from: Carl on January 21, 2012, 02:56:00 PM
Can the rest from Sara be put back into the DUmpster as it is now also the subject of the latest DUmmie FUnnies,so CC may get some additional traffic from that.
Thanks. :)

The rest of the Sarah thread is in the DUmpster, on the second page.

Apparently TVDOC and I were splitting and moving this at the same time.
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Offline Maxiest

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Re: Creationism Discussion
« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2012, 05:04:31 PM »
Quote from: Rebel on January 21, 2012, 01:17:47 PM
Looks like a bit of a fairy tale to me. I don't remember reading about any fire-breathing dinosaurs. Do you believe the earth is only 6000 years old? And if dinosaurs did exist at that time, and that's what it's referring to, why only two entries in the entire Bible?

I love history.  I have read tons of history books from this century.  I don't read much about cats and dogs in the books I have read.  I don't think dinosaurs where the "subject" at hand in the bible just like dogs aren't in most the Civil War books I have read.
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Re: Creationism Discussion
« Reply #20 on: January 21, 2012, 07:19:26 PM »
Quote from: franksolich on January 21, 2012, 03:02:29 PM
The rest of the Sarah thread is in the DUmpster, on the second page.

Apparently TVDOC and I were splitting and moving this at the same time.

Is THAT what happened.....I thought I lost part of it when I was splitting the thread, then it reappeared.

doc
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Offline dixierose

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Re: Creationism Discussion
« Reply #21 on: January 21, 2012, 09:35:52 PM »
Quote from: Maxiest on January 21, 2012, 05:04:31 PM
I love history.  I have read tons of history books from this century.  I don't read much about cats and dogs in the books I have read.  I don't think dinosaurs where the "subject" at hand in the bible just like dogs aren't in most the Civil War books I have read.

Good point.

Does the bible mention monkeys, giraffes, alligators, sharks, etc. ? Just because dinosaurs aren't mentioned except in two places does not mean they didn't exist along side humans.
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Offline dutch508

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Re: Creationism Discussion
« Reply #22 on: January 21, 2012, 09:49:56 PM »
Quote from: dixierose on January 21, 2012, 09:35:52 PM
Good point.

Does the bible mention monkeys, giraffes, alligators, sharks, etc. ? Just because dinosaurs aren't mentioned except in two places does not mean they didn't exist along side humans.

in those days there were giants on the earth.
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Re: Creationism Discussion
« Reply #23 on: January 22, 2012, 08:03:18 PM »
The geneologies were first chronicled by Archbishop Usher and yes, he took every tittle and jot literally...perhaps more literally than the rabbis would dare. The rabbis don't have these problems, the problem with modern-American theology (read: crap) is they refuse to listen to their elders.

What I've never understood is the unfounded mania to assume these geneologies are the only part of history.

Nevermind "earth sciences" such as fossils or stratification, there are human histories that pre-date the geneologies by millenia.

None of that does disservice to the bible; it's just fact. The bible doesn't pretend to be ALL history, just the history of God interacting with a select group.
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Re: Creationism Discussion
« Reply #24 on: January 22, 2012, 08:06:43 PM »
Quote from: SGT Snuggle Bunny on January 22, 2012, 08:03:18 PM
The bible doesn't pretend to be ALL history, just the history of God interacting with a select group.
but if god supposedly created earth 6000 yrs ago, that would be "all history" not just human history.
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