Retired Bishop Discusses the Existence of Hell

[TVDOC]

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkaH3hEmV3M&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]

Note:  The poster neither endorses nor rejects the opinions stated above.  For discussion only.....

doc

[franksolich]

Okay, I watched it, but of course I didn't hear it.

I'm assuming this is one of those "new" Anglican or Episcopalian bishops?

It seems as if he's trying to be a "cafeteria Christian," picking-and-choosing those things he likes, and rejecting those things he doesn't.

It's pretty odd, saying Hell is an "invention of the church" when it, uh, appears in the Scriptures, which were around long before the church ever was.  One can't invent something that's already been invented.

I personally believe there is a Hell, but given that Hell is an Infinite entity, and the ability of the human mind to grasp things is finite, I have no idea exactly what it is, other than that it's somewhere one wouldn't want to go.

[vesta111]

Okay, I watched it, but of course I didn't hear it.

I'm assuming this is one of those "new" Anglican or Episcopalian bishops?

It seems as if he's trying to be a "cafeteria Christian," picking-and-choosing those things he likes, and rejecting those things he doesn't.

It's pretty odd, saying Hell is an "invention of the church" when it, uh, appears in the Scriptures, which were around long before the church ever was.  One can't invent something that's already been invented.

I personally believe there is a Hell, but given that Hell is an Infinite entity, and the ability of the human mind to grasp things is finite, I have no idea exactly what it is, other than that it's somewhere one wouldn't want to go.

Interesting thinking here, FRANK, ---I do not believe that the human mind has a finite ability to grasp things.

Some on CC have no problem grasping concepts that others have never been exposed to. Some ideas to the layman who have little contact with Mathematics, speak only our mother tongue, have no passion to learn about something totally out of their normal interests.

Much depends on the teacher, a good one can teach amazing things and inspire others to think, explore and make amazing finds.

Check out the Whizz Kids,  those that at the age of 8 can hack into  The Pentagon.  They were taught and experimented on their own. Little difference in the brain make up from one person to another.   
we have been studying the brain of Einstein for YEARS----result is there is little difference in make up of his brain then anyone Else's.   

Einstein was a dolt as a kid, his teachers told his father that he would never amount to anything.

Some can grasp concepts others cannot. When it comes to faith, then one has to take into consideration a persons personality, their past experiences and how they were taught. 

Science is built on exploration, accidental findings and proved methods.   Religion is a hand me down of ideas for thousands of years, it is indeed a cafeteria of ideas that people choose to live by, people do convert from faith to faith, the reason Protestants have all the different sects, ---We have Roman Catholics, and the Orthodox Churches, Russian, Greek and the Ethiopian mixture of Judaism and Catholicism. The Jews have the ultra Orthodox and the Jews for Jesus groups.

The human mind is infinite when it comes to new ideas, new proofs and accidental discovery's.   

[TVDOC]

Okay, I watched it, but of course I didn't hear it.

I'm assuming this is one of those "new" Anglican or Episcopalian bishops?

I'm not going to attempt to speak for him, but for your benefit, I think his position is that "Hell", as Dante envisioned it, and the more modern "fire and brimstone" interpretation is  an invention of the medieval Roman Catholic Church,  designed to control the populace through fear.  History also teaches us that the Roman Church certainly isn't above such subterfuge, especially during this period.

Further, I think you are correct, inasmuch as he is Anglican......

doc

[MrsSmith]

Jesus talked about it...somewhat before the Roman Catholic Church existed.   

Mat 10:28   "Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

[vesta111]

Jesus talked about it...somewhat before the Roman Catholic Church existed.   

Mat 10:28   "Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

Interesting quote, wondering how the physical body goes anywhere but back into the earth.

Interesting discussions with a Priest explaining the meaning of the Eucharist.   As some how a mortal man, a Priest could turn wine into blood and flour wafers into flesh.   What I wanted to know was what happend to left over wafers, the flesh of Christ after the service was over.  Were the leftovers just dumped in the trash or was there a special rite to turn the flesh back into wafers.

Was this a symbolic act or did the Priest actually believe the wine was the actual blood of Christ.  The old time Priests had some kind of mind set that they had supernatural powers to make holy water, come to a new home and bless it to remove any evil spirits.  Priests baptise others, bless the fleet, bless the animals.

  Some Pastors of Evangelical uses some kind of oil to anoint the ill and believe they have the power to drive devils from the body's of those afflicted.   Kind of old fashion to believe illness is the result of evil spirits.

Who gives these mortals the same powers as Jesus????   Would it be another mortal bestows these men with a power they themselves do not possess.

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

I can think of nothing so tyrannical as the absence of Hell.

[debk]

Personally, I believe there are different levels of Hell.

Life on here on earth, is the first level of Hell. How we progress through our lives, following the teachings of God (or Higher Being one choses to believe in ), travelling through life doing the best we can for ourselves and our family and friends, resisting the temptations that may lead to disaster whether it be something like cheating in school, spouse, business to the opposite end of the spectrum of serious criminal activity.

How we live this time on earth, will determine our fate after death. I believe in Purgatory, where we spend time attoning for our sins - great or small - until God determines that we are worthy to enter into His Kingdom....however long it may take.

Then there are the lower levels of Hell. For those who break God and man's rules. I don't believe for a minute that some serial murderer or pedophile - no matter how much he/she might ask for God's forgiveness - ever makes it out of the depths of Hell. Though they may rise up a level or two, and attain God's forgiveness, it doesn't mean that He's going to let them into Heaven, or even as far as Purgatory, to live among those who's worst sin may have only been being a jerk to others.

There are very few who have ever made it through life without sin. Those that have, are either saints or angels. We all have done things we shouldn't...and most of us, when we do those things, realize at the time, "uh-oh, shouldn't have done that!" Doesn't mean we won't commit the same "sin" again, but we are cognizant of the "wrong" of the deed...and there is a voice within us that will ask for forgiveness.

The ability to see the "wrong" and the willingness to attone for the act, will determine our time in Purgatory.

But for those who are just evil, there is no true attonement, no matter how much they may profess their "new found faith in God". It's just another sham to try to con people. For those individuals....there is no Hell that is deep enough or hot enough.

[Aristotelian]

Interesting discussions with a Priest explaining the meaning of the Eucharist.   As some how a mortal man, a Priest could turn wine into blood and flour wafers into flesh.   What I wanted to know was what happend to left over wafers, the flesh of Christ after the service was over.  Were the leftovers just dumped in the trash or was there a special rite to turn the flesh back into wafers.

The 'left-over' hosts are either consumed or placed into a secure box known as a tabernacle where they can be used to give Holy Communion at later Masses, to be taken to the sick who can't be in church, and for the faithful to have as an object of veneration in Church.

Was this a symbolic act or did the Priest actually believe the wine was the actual blood of Christ.  The old time Priests had some kind of mind set that they had supernatural powers to make holy water, come to a new home and bless it to remove any evil spirits.  Priests baptise others, bless the fleet, bless the animals.

The Priest really does have that grave responsibility, the power is the Holy Ghost's but His action in the Mass and other sacraments are vouchsafed by the authority of Mother Church.

Who gives these mortals the same powers as Jesus???? Would it be another mortal bestows these men with a power they themselves do not possess.

The Bishop who Ordains a Priest is the physical conduit by which the Holy Ghost bestows the 'power'.

[Gratiot]

I'm not going to attempt to speak for him, but for your benefit, I think his position is that "Hell", as Dante envisioned it, and the more modern "fire and brimstone" interpretation is  an invention of the medieval Roman Catholic Church,  designed to control the populace through fear.  History also teaches us that the Roman Church certainly isn't above such subterfuge, especially during this period.

Personally I view Hell more as the deprivation and complete absence of God's light, grace, friendship, and holiness.  With the Dante description being something more along the lines scare tactics for those whom can't envision the horrors of the above.  Not that any of us could likely truly imagine just what that entails.  Although the references to the unquenchable fire by Jesus, and the lake of fire in Revelations and by Hippolytus have me inclined to believe that there may be some basis which may not just be allegorical to the eternal pain and suffering of complete separation from God.

Edit:  I haven't watched the video yet, but will go back and due so in a bit.

[Splashdown]

Interesting quote, wondering how the physical body goes anywhere but back into the earth.


Who gives these mortals the same powers as Jesus????   Would it be another mortal bestows these men with a power they themselves do not possess.

According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, Jesus gave those "powers" to the Apostles on Holy Thursday at the Last supper. Priests hold Holy Thursday as the birthday of the sacrament of Holy Orders.

When a priest gets the sacrament of Holy Orders, it is bestowed on him by the Holy Spirit through a bishop, who was ordained by a bishop, who was ordained by a bishop, who was ordained by a bishop, an unbroken line all the way back to the first bishops, the Apostles. That, at least, is what Catholics believe.

As for the existence of hell, I think the best description I've ever heard is the absence of the love of God.