Author Topic: Is Islam Truly So Evil??  (Read 34196 times)

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Offline The Night Owl

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Re: Is Islam Truly So Evil??
« Reply #50 on: January 19, 2008, 12:44:10 PM »

Huh?  People riot EXCLUSIVELY because of their belief systems.  They don't just get together and say "hey -- let's have a riot!"  Whether their belief system is The Man is keeping them down or their evil god is being dissed, it is all about beliefs.


Belief systems provide a rationale for behavior, but people and people alone are responsible for their behavior. If someone kills himself or herself after hearing a song which glorifies suicide, is the song to blame for the suicide? Of course not. Similarly, just because some Muslim takes an action which he or she believes is required by Islam does not mean that Islam is to blame for that action.
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Offline The Night Owl

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Re: Is Islam Truly So Evil??
« Reply #51 on: January 19, 2008, 12:51:00 PM »

Their gutter religion specifically calls for using violence to accomplish the objective of making their pig god the only deity to be worshipped. 

According to some sects of Christianity, a God who is supposedly merciful throws infidels like me into Hell for not worshipping him.
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Offline Chris_

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Re: Is Islam Truly So Evil??
« Reply #52 on: January 19, 2008, 01:02:51 PM »

Huh?  People riot EXCLUSIVELY because of their belief systems.  They don't just get together and say "hey -- let's have a riot!"  Whether their belief system is The Man is keeping them down or their evil god is being dissed, it is all about beliefs.


Belief systems provide a rationale for behavior, but people and people alone are responsible for their behavior. If someone kills himself or herself after hearing a song which glorifies suicide, is the song to blame for the suicide? Of course not. Similarly, just because some Muslim takes an action which he or she believes is required by Islam does not mean that Islam is to blame for that action.


Not "believes is required" -- just "required."  Just as cult leaders are held responsible for their effect on their cults -- does the name Jim Jones ring a bell? -- if a screed is evil, calls for evil, promotes evil and requires evil, that screed is evil.
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Offline Chris_

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Re: Is Islam Truly So Evil??
« Reply #53 on: January 19, 2008, 01:03:55 PM »

Their gutter religion specifically calls for using violence to accomplish the objective of making their pig god the only deity to be worshipped. 

According to some sects of Christianity, a God who is supposedly merciful throws infidels like me into Hell for not worshipping him.
But they all believe that is between you and God. And them and God.  Not you and them.  Your strawman gives off much warmth when lit.
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Offline CactusCarlos

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Re: Is Islam Truly So Evil??
« Reply #54 on: January 19, 2008, 07:14:00 PM »
I suggest you actually read something instead of becoming sheeple looking for those who will give you vindication of the hate within. 

Tell ya what, Salaam - reply with 100 links documenting Muslims standing up to Islamic extremists (like the Taliban or al Queda) and I'll read the PDF you posted.  Deal?
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Offline Wretched Excess

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Re: Is Islam Truly So Evil??
« Reply #55 on: January 19, 2008, 07:23:14 PM »

Their gutter religion specifically calls for using violence to accomplish the objective of making their pig god the only deity to be worshipped. 

According to some sects of Christianity, a God who is supposedly merciful throws infidels like me into Hell for not worshipping him.

your use of the word "sects" is inappropriate.  and if you don't believe in God, then you don't believe in hell, either.  So what's your problem?

Offline Chris_

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Re: Is Islam Truly So Evil??
« Reply #56 on: January 19, 2008, 09:56:11 PM »

Their gutter religion specifically calls for using violence to accomplish the objective of making their pig god the only deity to be worshipped. 

According to some sects of Christianity, a God who is supposedly merciful throws infidels like me into Hell for not worshipping him.
Then you clearly do not understand Christianity.
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Offline The Night Owl

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Re: Is Islam Truly So Evil??
« Reply #57 on: January 20, 2008, 11:11:20 AM »
your use of the word "sects" is inappropriate. 


In a religious context, a sect is simply a dissenting group or denomination within a religion.

I suspect that most Christians believe that infidels can get into Heaven as long as they live decent lives, but many other Christians believe that infidels cannot get into Heaven no matter how they live their lives.

Quote
and if you don't believe in God, then you don't believe in hell, either.  So what's your problem?

I disagree with the notion that one must believe in God or Hell to have opinions about them as concepts. Not believing in Allah doesn't stop people here from commenting on Islam, does it?
« Last Edit: January 20, 2008, 11:47:02 AM by The Night Owl »
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Offline The Night Owl

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Re: Is Islam Truly So Evil??
« Reply #58 on: January 20, 2008, 11:20:52 AM »
Of course an adult is always responsible for the choices they make.  But you can't deny that the outcomes of such, can't be heavily influenced.  When there's an organization systematically, methodically, attempting to influence choices to such a result.

Unlike the influence which certain drugs or certain mental illnesses exert, the influence Islam has is not beyond the control of humans. When people allow religion to influence their actions, they are making a conscious choice to allow religion to influence their actions.

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Yes, they share blame.

I disagree. Islam bears no blame whatsoever for what the people who follow it do.

« Last Edit: January 20, 2008, 01:19:25 PM by The Night Owl »
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Offline Chris_

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Re: Is Islam Truly So Evil??
« Reply #59 on: January 20, 2008, 07:40:04 PM »
Of course an adult is always responsible for the choices they make.  But you can't deny that the outcomes of such, can't be heavily influenced.  When there's an organization systematically, methodically, attempting to influence choices to such a result.

Unlike the influence which certain drugs or certain mental illnesses exert, the influence Islam has is not beyond the control of humans. When people allow religion to influence their actions, they are making a conscious choice to allow religion to influence their actions.

Quote
Yes, they share blame.

I disagree. Islam bears no blame whatsoever for what the people who follow it do.
Truely clueless.
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Offline Chris_

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Re: Is Islam Truly So Evil??
« Reply #60 on: January 20, 2008, 07:49:51 PM »

I disagree. Islam bears no blame whatsoever for what the people who follow it do.

People do what islam tells them to do and yet it bears no blame when they do so?  WTF?
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Offline The Night Owl

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Re: Is Islam Truly So Evil??
« Reply #61 on: January 20, 2008, 09:55:32 PM »

People do what islam tells them to do and yet it bears no blame when they do so?  WTF?


The decision to take a course of action prescribed by Islam is entirely the responsibility of the person who makes it. Like I wrote before, religion provides nothing more than the rationale for actions. You can criticize a Islam for what it prescribes but you cannot blame it for the fact that people follow what it prescribes.
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Offline Wretched Excess

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Re: Is Islam Truly So Evil??
« Reply #62 on: January 20, 2008, 10:06:48 PM »

People do what islam tells them to do and yet it bears no blame when they do so?  WTF?


The decision to take a course of action prescribed by Islam is entirely the responsibility of the person who makes it. Like I wrote before, religion provides nothing more than the rationale for actions. You can criticize a Islam for what it prescribes but you cannot blame it for the fact that people follow what it prescribes.

surely you are not equating the 9/11 attackers with, say, methodists, are you?

Offline The Night Owl

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Re: Is Islam Truly So Evil??
« Reply #63 on: January 20, 2008, 10:13:49 PM »
surely you are not equating the 9/11 attackers with, say, methodists, are you?


No, I am not equating the perpetrators of the 9/11 attacks to Methodists and I'm perplexed as to why you think I would. I can assure you, however, that if the perpetrators of the 9/11 attacks had been Methodists, I would not blame Methodism for those attacks.
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Offline Wretched Excess

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Re: Is Islam Truly So Evil??
« Reply #64 on: January 20, 2008, 10:15:05 PM »
surely you are not equating the 9/11 attackers with, say, methodists, are you?


No, I am not equating the perpetrators of the 9/11 attacks to Methodists and I'm perplexed as to why you think I would. I can assure you, however, that if the perpetrators of the 9/11 attacks had been Methodists, I would not blame Methodism for those attacks.

yes, we would.

Offline Wretched Excess

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Re: Is Islam Truly So Evil??
« Reply #65 on: January 20, 2008, 10:16:30 PM »
surely you are not equating the 9/11 attackers with, say, methodists, are you?


No, I am not equating the perpetrators of the 9/11 attacks to Methodists and I'm perplexed as to why you think I would. I can assure you, however, that if the perpetrators of the 9/11 attacks had been Methodists, I would not blame Methodism for those attacks.

we would declare war on methodism, and methodists would die by the dozen.

(I am a methodist, by the way)


Offline Chris_

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Re: Is Islam Truly So Evil??
« Reply #66 on: January 21, 2008, 06:50:37 AM »

People do what islam tells them to do and yet it bears no blame when they do so?  WTF?


The decision to take a course of action prescribed by Islam is entirely the responsibility of the person who makes it. Like I wrote before, religion provides nothing more than the rationale for actions. You can criticize a Islam for what it prescribes but you cannot blame it for the fact that people follow what it prescribes.
That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard -- and I have heard a lot. Let's put it this way: if there was no islam there would be no adherents trying to take over the world.  I hate to potentially invoke Godwin's law, but your analysis says hitler wasn't responsible for the Holocaust since he only ordered the killings.

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Offline Chris_

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Re: Is Islam Truly So Evil??
« Reply #67 on: January 21, 2008, 07:08:12 AM »

People do what islam tells them to do and yet it bears no blame when they do so?  WTF?


The decision to take a course of action prescribed by Islam is entirely the responsibility of the person who makes it. Like I wrote before, religion provides nothing more than the rationale for actions. You can criticize a Islam for what it prescribes but you cannot blame it for the fact that people follow what it prescribes.
That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard -- and I have heard a lot. Let's put it this way: if there was no islam there would be no adherents trying to take over the world.  I hate to potentially invoke Godwin's law, but your analysis says hitler wasn't responsible for the Holocaust since he only ordered the killings.


That's gonna leave a mark.   :hyper:
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Offline The Night Owl

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Re: Is Islam Truly So Evil??
« Reply #68 on: January 21, 2008, 08:57:43 AM »
That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard -- and I have heard a lot. Let's put it this way: if there was no islam there would be no adherents trying to take over the world. I hate to potentially invoke Godwin's law, but your analysis says hitler wasn't responsible for the Holocaust since he only ordered the killings.

Adolf Hitler was responsible for the Holocaust because he used his power to order the German people to carry out the Final Solution. Islam is not responsible for terrorism because Islam, unlike Adolf Hitler, has no power to force actions.
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Offline Chris_

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Re: Is Islam Truly So Evil??
« Reply #69 on: January 21, 2008, 11:43:03 AM »
That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard -- and I have heard a lot. Let's put it this way: if there was no islam there would be no adherents trying to take over the world. I hate to potentially invoke Godwin's law, but your analysis says hitler wasn't responsible for the Holocaust since he only ordered the killings.

Adolf Hitler was responsible for the Holocaust because he used his power to order the German people to carry out the Final Solution. Islam is not responsible for terrorism because Islam, unlike Adolf Hitler, has no power to force actions.
:rotf:
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Offline Splashdown

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Re: Is Islam Truly So Evil??
« Reply #70 on: January 21, 2008, 12:13:47 PM »
There is some crazy coincidence, then that those fellas who flow planes into the World Trade Center, the Pentagon, and the field in central Pennsylvania all were of Islamic descent. It is mighty strange that the people who currently are strapping bombs to themselves to blow up innocent women and children all seem to be of Islamic persuasion.
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God alone suffices.
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Offline The Night Owl

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Re: Is Islam Truly So Evil??
« Reply #71 on: January 21, 2008, 12:23:59 PM »
There is some crazy coincidence, then that those fellas who flow planes into the World Trade Center, the Pentagon, and the field in central Pennsylvania all were of Islamic descent. It is mighty strange that the people who currently are strapping bombs to themselves to blow up innocent women and children all seem to be of Islamic persuasion.

Funny, but... I'm not trying to completely divorce Islamic terrorism from Islam. What I've tried to do in this thread is point out Islam serves only as a rationale for actions. You can criticize Islam for what you think it requires of followers but you cannot blame it for what those followers actually do.
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Offline Chris_

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Re: Is Islam Truly So Evil??
« Reply #72 on: January 21, 2008, 12:28:13 PM »
There is some crazy coincidence, then that those fellas who flow planes into the World Trade Center, the Pentagon, and the field in central Pennsylvania all were of Islamic descent. It is mighty strange that the people who currently are strapping bombs to themselves to blow up innocent women and children all seem to be of Islamic persuasion.

Funny, but... I'm not trying to completely divorce Islamic terrorism from Islam. What I've tried to do in this thread is point out Islam serves only as a rationale for actions. You can criticize Islam for what you think it requires of followers but you cannot blame it for what those followers actually do.
I see, so you think these people would be terrorists anyway (without Islam), and just use Islam as their justification?  :lame:
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Offline The Night Owl

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Re: Is Islam Truly So Evil??
« Reply #73 on: January 21, 2008, 12:54:23 PM »
I see, so you think these people would be terrorists anyway (without Islam), and just use Islam as their justification?  :lame:

No. I think that most who practice or support Islamic terrorism would have no rationale for it if not for Islam, but that doesn't mean that Islam is to blame for terrorism. Billions of people practice Islam peacefully.
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Re: Is Islam Truly So Evil??
« Reply #74 on: January 21, 2008, 01:01:52 PM »
Of course an adult is always responsible for the choices they make.  But you can't deny that the outcomes of such, can't be heavily influenced.  When there's an organization systematically, methodically, attempting to influence choices to such a result.

Unlike the influence which certain drugs or certain mental illnesses exert, the influence Islam has is not beyond the control of humans. When people allow religion to influence their actions, they are making a conscious choice to allow religion to influence their actions.

Quote
Yes, they share blame.

I disagree. Islam bears no blame whatsoever for what the people who follow it do.
Truely clueless.

He's like that turd in the toilet that pops up after you've flushed the toilet.  It just won't go away.