Judge Orders La. School District to Stop Bible Giveaways

[Chris_]

Judge Orders La. School District to Stop Bible Giveaways

NEW ORLEANS  —  A federal judge ordered a public school system to stop allowing in-school Bible giveaways, saying the practice violates the First Amendment separation of church and state.

"Distribution of Bibles is a religious activity without a secular purpose" and amounts to school board promotion of Christianity, U.S. District Judge Carl J. Barbier ruled in a case brought by the American Civil Liberties Union of Louisiana against the Tangipahoa Parish School Board.

As requested by both sides, Barbier made a summary judgment based only on the written briefs — something judges may do only if the law is absolutely clear.

Defense attorney Christopher M. Moody said late Tuesday that the school board decided to appeal the ruling to the 5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeal.

"We think our chances on appeal are very good," he said.

The ACLU filed the lawsuit for an anonymous family whose daughter said she felt pressured into taking a Bible even though she doesn't believe in God. The girl was called Jane Roe and her father John Roe out of fear of retaliation by schoolmates and neighbors, the ACLU has said.

Jane Roe was a fifth-grader at Loranger Middle School when The Gideons International visited on May 9, 2007. Principal Andre Pellerin notified fifth-grade teachers that the group would be on campus all day, giving away Bibles outside his office. His e-mail said, "Please stress to students that they DO NOT have to get a bible," according to Barbier.

Oh the horror.     A child actually touched a Bible.   

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[Lord Undies]

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

I don't think this judge has read any of the Bill of Rights.  I don't see the word "separation".  I don't find the word "church".  I don't see the word "state" used.

I do see the words "of" and "and".  If we were keeping score, the judge would still lose.  He would be two for five.

[formerlurker]

The Bible is looked at by non-Christians as a great work of literature, and it is studied as such in many colleges and universities.  Will the school prevail on freedom of speech?   maybe.

That said, something tells me this school board would not allow the Koran to be distributed, yet they don't understand that the Bible could be just as offensive to others.

[Lord Undies]

The Bible is looked at by non-Christians as a great work of literature, and it is studied as such in many colleges and universities.  Will the school prevail on freedom of speech?   maybe.

That said, something tells me this school board would not allow the Koran to be distributed, yet they don't understand that the Bible could be just as offensive to others.

Being offended by a Bible makes no sense.  Being offended by the koran makes no sense.  They are books, not tattoos.  After being gifted with one, if you don't want it, throw it away or give it to someone who wants it.

I don't believe in Superman, but if someone wanted to pass out free copies of the comic books, I would think taking them to court to try to stop them would seem to be overkill, seeing how I personally place no importance on Superman.

If I thought about taking them to court, I would have to stop and ask myself what my goal really is.  Would it be to stop myself and others like me from being "offended", or am I trying to deny others their right to accept a gift?  Does Superman scare me that much?   

[formerlurker]

The Bible is looked at by non-Christians as a great work of literature, and it is studied as such in many colleges and universities.  Will the school prevail on freedom of speech?   maybe.

That said, something tells me this school board would not allow the Koran to be distributed, yet they don't understand that the Bible could be just as offensive to others.

Being offended by a Bible makes no sense.  Being offended by the koran makes no sense.  They are books, not tattoos.  After being gifted with one, if you don't want it, throw it away or give it to someone who wants it.

I don't believe in Superman, but if someone wanted to pass out free copies of the comic books, I would think taking them to court to try to stop them would seem to be overkill, seeing how I personally place no importance on Superman.

If I thought about taking them to court, I would have to stop and ask myself what my goal really is.  Would it be to stop myself and others like me from being "offended", or am I trying to deny others their right to accept a gift?  Does Superman scare me that much?   

Which is what my first paragraph states.

My second paragraph simply states that the school board may not be so generous to an Islamic group who wished to come to the school to pass out the Koran, which ould call into question their motivation for allowing the Bibles to be distributed.   If the ACLU was smart (I know, not a chance), they would have attempted to do so which would have locked in their case as a slam dunk if the school board balked at the request.    Now their case is nothing more than sensationalism.

[DixieBelle]

I thought non-believers called the Bible a "history book". What's the problem then? And the Gideons were behind this, not the school board. This is right up there with kicking Military recruiters off school grounds. Of course the ACLU is in the middle of it. *eyeroll*

[Chris_]

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

I don't think this judge has read any of the Bill of Rights.  I don't see the word "separation".  I don't find the word "church".  I don't see the word "state" used.

I do see the words "of" and "and".  If we were keeping score, the judge would still lose.  He would be two for five.

To libs the Constitution is a "living document" which they are trying to kill.  Their current version requires freedom from religion.

[djones520]

My interpretation of the 1st Amendment is that Congress will not elevate a single religion above any other.

For a school that recieves money from Congress, to pass out Bibles but no other religious text, then that may be a violation of the 1st amendment.

It is still nothing I would get my panties in a wad over.  If they where to begin using the bibles in their everyday teachings, I'd bring the hammer down, but there is nothing inherently wrong with this.


I must ask though.  What would you guys say if the school was handing the Quran out?

[Lord Undies]

My interpretation of the 1st Amendment is that Congress will not elevate a single religion above any other.

For a school that receives money from Congress, to pass out Bibles but no other religious text, then that may be a violation of the 1st amendment.

It is still nothing I would get my panties in a wad over.  If they where to begin using the bibles in their everyday teachings, I'd bring the hammer down, but there is nothing inherently wrong with this.


I must ask though.  What would you guys say if the school was handing the Quran out?

I've already answered your question.  Now I have a question or two.

How can congress interfere without prohibiting the free exercise thereof?  That's in the first amendment too.

Should this not be a local issue?  Constitutionally, our schools are none of congress' business.

Aha!, but you say, the schools accept federal money.  That causes me to have another couple of questions.

Why do free and independent people send their money to Washington thereby enabling Washington to give back or withhold tax money as it sees fit?  That is like giving your paycheck to your mother-in-law and having her dole back to you what she thinks you need and deciding why you need it.

Shouldn't the states be sending Washington what the states think Washington needs? 

[MrsSmith]

My interpretation of the 1st Amendment is that Congress will not elevate a single religion above any other.

For a school that recieves money from Congress, to pass out Bibles but no other religious text, then that may be a violation of the 1st amendment.

It is still nothing I would get my panties in a wad over.  If they where to begin using the bibles in their everyday teachings, I'd bring the hammer down, but there is nothing inherently wrong with this.


I must ask though.  What would you guys say if the school was handing the Quran out?

The Koran is required reading in some schools.  There have even been schools that required their students to dress appropriately, study the path to Mecca, and celebrate Ramadan.  Islamic kids are allowed prayer time during the day, and allowed to perform religious acts such as washing feet because "it's diversity."

[formerlurker]

My interpretation of the 1st Amendment is that Congress will not elevate a single religion above any other.

For a school that recieves money from Congress, to pass out Bibles but no other religious text, then that may be a violation of the 1st amendment.

It is still nothing I would get my panties in a wad over.  If they where to begin using the bibles in their everyday teachings, I'd bring the hammer down, but there is nothing inherently wrong with this.


I must ask though.  What would you guys say if the school was handing the Quran out?

The Koran is required reading in some schools.  There have even been schools that required their students to dress appropriately, study the path to Mecca, and celebrate Ramadan.  Islamic kids are allowed prayer time during the day, and allowed to perform religious acts such as washing feet because "it's diversity."

Where is this happening?

[formerlurker]

My interpretation of the 1st Amendment is that Congress will not elevate a single religion above any other.

For a school that receives money from Congress, to pass out Bibles but no other religious text, then that may be a violation of the 1st amendment.

It is still nothing I would get my panties in a wad over.  If they where to begin using the bibles in their everyday teachings, I'd bring the hammer down, but there is nothing inherently wrong with this.


I must ask though.  What would you guys say if the school was handing the Quran out?

I've already answered your question.  Now I have a question or two.

How can congress interfere without prohibiting the free exercise thereof?  That's in the first amendment too.

Should this not be a local issue?  Constitutionally, our schools are none of congress' business.

Aha!, but you say, the schools accept federal money.  That causes me to have another couple of questions.

Why do free and independent people send their money to Washington thereby enabling Washington to give back or withhold tax money as it sees fit?  That is like giving your paycheck to your mother-in-law and having her dole back to you what she thinks you need and deciding why you need it.

Shouldn't the states be sending Washington what the states think Washington needs? 

The states did that by electing Congress who made these decisions about our money for us.

[djones520]

My interpretation of the 1st Amendment is that Congress will not elevate a single religion above any other.

For a school that receives money from Congress, to pass out Bibles but no other religious text, then that may be a violation of the 1st amendment.

It is still nothing I would get my panties in a wad over.  If they where to begin using the bibles in their everyday teachings, I'd bring the hammer down, but there is nothing inherently wrong with this.


I must ask though.  What would you guys say if the school was handing the Quran out?

I've already answered your question.  Now I have a question or two.

How can congress interfere without prohibiting the free exercise thereof?  That's in the first amendment too.

Should this not be a local issue?  Constitutionally, our schools are none of congress' business.

Aha!, but you say, the schools accept federal money.  That causes me to have another couple of questions.

Why do free and independent people send their money to Washington thereby enabling Washington to give back or withhold tax money as it sees fit?  That is like giving your paycheck to your mother-in-law and having her dole back to you what she thinks you need and deciding why you need it.

Shouldn't the states be sending Washington what the states think Washington needs? 

So your saying the Federal Government shouldn't be involved in developing the infrastructure of our nation?

So are you saying this should be something that comes from state taxes then?  Or should we expect the money to come from local drives and the goodness of peoples hearts?

If it's option number 1, your still going to end up giving your money to the "nanny-state" and if it's option 2, get ready for this country to start looking like Kenya.

And I know where beginning to diverge from the topic of religion, so I apologize for helping it down this road.

[DixieBelle]

My interpretation of the 1st Amendment is that Congress will not elevate a single religion above any other.

For a school that recieves money from Congress, to pass out Bibles but no other religious text, then that may be a violation of the 1st amendment.

It is still nothing I would get my panties in a wad over.  If they where to begin using the bibles in their everyday teachings, I'd bring the hammer down, but there is nothing inherently wrong with this.


I must ask though.  What would you guys say if the school was handing the Quran out?

The Koran is required reading in some schools.  There have even been schools that required their students to dress appropriately, study the path to Mecca, and celebrate Ramadan.  Islamic kids are allowed prayer time during the day, and allowed to perform religious acts such as washing feet because "it's diversity."

Where is this happening?

I'd give you the address of my son's school but I value our privacy.

They closed the library off to all students so the Muslims would have a place to pray/fast during Ramadan. They even handed out prayer mats.

[DixieBelle]

My interpretation of the 1st Amendment is that Congress will not elevate a single religion above any other.

For a school that receives money from Congress, to pass out Bibles but no other religious text, then that may be a violation of the 1st amendment.

It is still nothing I would get my panties in a wad over.  If they where to begin using the bibles in their everyday teachings, I'd bring the hammer down, but there is nothing inherently wrong with this.


I must ask though.  What would you guys say if the school was handing the Quran out?

I've already answered your question.  Now I have a question or two.

How can congress interfere without prohibiting the free exercise thereof?  That's in the first amendment too.

Should this not be a local issue?  Constitutionally, our schools are none of congress' business.

Aha!, but you say, the schools accept federal money.  That causes me to have another couple of questions.

Why do free and independent people send their money to Washington thereby enabling Washington to give back or withhold tax money as it sees fit?  That is like giving your paycheck to your mother-in-law and having her dole back to you what she thinks you need and deciding why you need it.

Shouldn't the states be sending Washington what the states think Washington needs? 

So your saying the Federal Government shouldn't be involved in developing the infrastructure of our nation?

So are you saying this should be something that comes from state taxes then?  Or should we expect the money to come from local drives and the goodness of peoples hearts?

If it's option number 1, your still going to end up giving your money to the "nanny-state" and if it's option 2, get ready for this country to start looking like Kenya.

And I know where beginning to diverge from the topic of religion, so I apologize for helping it down this road.

I'll bite. I would abolish the dept. of education altogether. We rely too heavily on the federal govt to set the standards for educating our children. Put that right back into the hands of the people at the local level. The authority we have at the local/state level is overseen by the federal govt and liberal interests have infected the process. I think suggesting we dismantle our infrastructure is a bit much and not the point that was being made. Minimum standards across the nation are fine. We must provide consistent education. But I'm a firm believer in state's rights and limited federal power so I don't think the system works as it currently stands. Wait until you have a kid in public school.

[The Night Owl]

I don't see a problem with allowing people to pass out religious texts in or near public schools as long as the people passing them out aren't school administrators or teachers.

[DixieBelle]

^as was the case in the OP. It was the Gideons who were passing out bibles.

The Gideons International visited on May 9, 2007. Principal Andre Pellerin notified fifth-grade teachers that the group would be on campus all day, giving away Bibles outside his office. His e-mail said, "Please stress to students that they DO NOT have to get a bible," according to Barbier.

[The Night Owl]

The Koran is required reading in some schools.

So? Reading a religious text is not necessarily a form of worship.

There have even been schools that required their students to dress appropriately, study the path to Mecca, and celebrate Ramadan.

I would have to know the specifics of what you describe as students being required to "celebrate" Ramadan before I can comment about it.

Students in public schools should not be required to celebrate religious holidays or festivals, but I have nothing against students learning about how people around the world celebrate religious holidays and festivals.

Islamic kids are allowed prayer time during the day, and allowed to perform religious acts such as washing feet because "it's diversity."

So?

[DixieBelle]

^It's elevating one religion over another.

I guess since you don't have children in public school, you aren't aware of these things. All references to Christianity have been removed. I am telling you this as a first hand observer. Islamic students are given accomodations that students of other faiths are not given. There are many examples of this - just google it.

[Splashdown]

So your saying the Federal Government shouldn't be involved in developing the infrastructure of our nation?

So are you saying this should be something that comes from state taxes then?  Or should we expect the money to come from local drives and the goodness of peoples hearts?

If it's option number 1, your still going to end up giving your money to the "nanny-state" and if it's option 2, get ready for this country to start looking like Kenya.

And I know where beginning to diverge from the topic of religion, so I apologize for helping it down this road.

If by "infrastructure," you mean common defense and interstate highways, railways, etc., yes. If you mean education, no. Millions of families choose private schools. I do for my children. This means I'm paying federal, state, and local taxes to support public schools, which I am not benefitting from at all, on top of paying tuition to the school.

To get into the problems with a national public school system would require a whole other thread. I'll limit it here to my usual statment: public schools suck.

[The Night Owl]

If by "infrastructure," you mean common defense and interstate highways, railways, etc., yes. If you mean education, no. Millions of families choose private schools. I do for my children. This means I'm paying federal, state, and local taxes to support public schools, which I am not benefitting from at all, on top of paying tuition to the school.

The nation benefits from having a well educated populace.

The best way to reduce the cost of education is to greatly reduce or eliminate sports programs. Schools waste an incredible amount of money on sports programs which have no real benefit except for the close to zero percentage of students who go on to play sports professionally.

[Splashdown]

The nation benefits from having a well educated populace.

The best way to reduce the cost of education is to greatly reduce or eliminate sports programs. Schools waste an incredible amount of money on sports programs which have no real benefit except for the close to zero percentage of students who go on to play sports professionally.

Agreed. And the government is the LAST thing we need to achieve that. Since education has gone more and more federal, SAT scores have plummetted. The answer is to get the feds out of education.

[Lord Undies]

Yes, to liberals, sports programs are the downfall of public schools.  Sports allow individuals to achieve based on their individual ability.  Liberals can't have that.  Individualism is enemy #1 of liberalism.  No one can be exceptional in Liberal Land.

School sports work to bring a community together, which is bad news for liberals.  Local pride in communities and good natured competition with other communities detracts from the notion of one-world Liberal Land where everyone is a carbon copy of everyone else. 

[The Night Owl]

Agreed. And the government is the LAST thing we need to achieve that. Since education has gone more and more federal, SAT scores have plummetted. The answer is to get the feds out of education.

At the risk of having a ghost excoriate me for knowing nothing of his work, I think that plummeting SAT scores are mostly the result of the societal transition toward tribalism. Read the Global Village entry at...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_McLuhan

[The Night Owl]

School sports work to bring a community together, which is bad news for liberals.  Local pride in communities and good natured competition with other communities detracts from the notion of one-world Liberal Land where everyone is a carbon copy of everyone else. 

The problem is not the sports programs, but the amount of money spent on them.