Author Topic: The End of an Era  (Read 11178 times)

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Offline TVDOC

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The End of an Era
« on: July 08, 2011, 08:27:40 PM »
I'm certainly no storyteller like franksolich, but I'm prompted by today's events to share a story.  The story begins with a singular event that launched a young man on a quest........a quest to be a part of one of mankind's greatest endeavors.

The event occurred in the late 50's when this young man was in high school.  The event was the launch by the Soviet Union of the first artificial satellite.  When Sputnik was first announced around the world, the race for space exploration was on, and this young man from a tiny midwest town was inspired by both the idea, and his teachers to become a part of this brave new frontier that was unfolding.

Instead of remaining in the small community as did most of his contemporaries, the young man managed to wrangle a partial scholarship to a good engineering school.  Although the environment was alien to a young person from a town where everyone knew each other, and the curriculum was demanding, he managed to complete his studies, and tested well enough for admission to grad school.  Money was tight, and this person was required to accept a position as a design engineer for a small firm that was engaged in the manufacture of radar equipment, in order to finance his continuing education.

Within a few months, this small firm was gobbled up by a giant corporation.  This giant was not engaged in the aerospace field that the young student wished to pursue........however, his small design group became part of a "joint venture" with another giant corporation that had a contract to design and develop radar equipment for a highly classified project at the time.  The project was code named "XML-001". 

As the project unfolded, the young man's minor and insignificant role was to head a team to design a very unique type of radar unit.  The unit had to have the capability to measure, down to a few inches, the altitude of the object that it was mounted on above the surface, and to provide the operator with a constant digital readout of that distance.  It was only after the equipment was completed and thoroughly tested that the final use of that equipment was made known to the young engineer and the rest of his team.

The team was flown to an "undisclosed location", and led into a huge aircraft hangar.  In that hangar, encased in a large "clean room", the team was shown their equipment, attached to a large insectlike machine.  That machine would later be known to the world as the "Apollo Moon Lander".  Assembled in the huge room were virtually hundreds of other engineers and technicians who had unknowingly labored for months on their small portions of the project........each working in isolation on what would in a few months become one of man's greatest achievements.

Following the success of the final Apollo mission, every member of the design team was presented with a small "gift" from NASA........it arrived in the mail.......a small box, and inside was an Omega "Speedmaster" chronograph (the same type that each of the Apollo astronauts wore).........accompanying the watch was a letter again thanking the recipient for their contribution to the success of the mission, and advising that the enclosed watch had been to the moon and back in the payload bay of the lunar orbiter.  On the back of each watch was engraved the seal of the mission on which it had travelled.

The years passed, priorities changed, career paths returned to more mundane tasks.  Raising families, sending children on to their own college careers, and finally to retirement.......but during all that time, the engineer's heart was always drawn to the thunderous roar of the ignition of a huge booster, with its payload bound for some exotic destination.......until today......when the (not so young anymore) engineer watched with sadness as the final United States manned space mission was launched.  The end of nearly a half-century of work by countless young engineers, technicians, pilots, assembly workers and support staff.

We are told that manned space flight is "no longer a priority", and that the "benefits don't outweigh the costs", and a hundred other reasons for what is essentially a matter of lack of vision on the part of our leadership.  A "leadership" that would rather pander to twenty million illegal immigrants......bear the cost of their health care, educate their offspring, and in many cases pay to incarcerate them, but we can't find the resources to "reach for the stars".........

Godspeed to the crew of the final shuttle mission, and I know that like that "young" engineer, they complete their mission with heavy hearts........it's not a day to rejoice......it's the passing of an era.  A day when American leadership takes a giant step backward.

As I sit here and stare at my Apollo watch in its blue velvet case.......and wonder what might have been, had we only had the perseverance to continue to press on.

As I'm certain you've guessed by now.....that young engineer was me.......

doc
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Offline Chris_

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Re: The End of an Era
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2011, 08:33:02 PM »
It's amazing what roads life will take you.  Wonderful story.
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Offline franksolich

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Re: The End of an Era
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2011, 08:34:14 PM »
That's awesome.

But I disagree about one thing; I think that after the Big Zero's gone, space exploration is going to resume again.

And it's not as if NASA's budget was that big a part of the national budget anyway.

I think it's going to resume.
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Offline thundley4

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Re: The End of an Era
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2011, 08:49:55 PM »
Cool story and I agree with Frank. Obama will be gone and NASA will once again serve it's intended purpose and not this PC crap about Muslim outreach and trying to prove "climate change".

Offline BattleHymn

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Re: The End of an Era
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2011, 08:59:15 PM »
Great story, TVDOC.  I have a picture of one of those Omega Speedmaster watches that is on display on the naval base Pensacola.  That would be very neat to own a piece of history like that.     

Offline TVDOC

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Re: The End of an Era
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2011, 09:43:12 PM »
That's awesome.

But I disagree about one thing; I think that after the Big Zero's gone, space exploration is going to resume again.

And it's not as if NASA's budget was that big a part of the national budget anyway.

I think it's going to resume.

I pray you are correct, however the pragmatist in me says that it won't happen.......for several reasons.

First, it takes a decade to develop the hardware for this type of exploration,,,,,,,,we should have been developing three additional levels of launch vehicles during the life of the shuttle.....we did not.

We'd be starting from scratch.....

Second, the next step (a permanent base on the moon) will be several orders of magnitude more expensive than anything we've ever attempted, then from there, launching a Mars mission increases that cost ten-fold,

It would be a 2 to 4 TRILLION dollar project.......over twenty to thirty years.

Unfortunately Obama and past administrations have landed us so far in debt that it is unlikely that the American people will go for the expense........not until someone else beats us there......just like "Sputnik", it will take something "kicking our population in the ass" to get it rolling.

My money is on the Chinese......

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Re: The End of an Era
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2011, 09:48:02 PM »
First, it takes a decade to develop the hardware for this type of exploration,,,,,,,,we should have been developing three additional levels of launch vehicles during the life of the shuttle.....we did not.

We'd be starting from scratch.....
From what I've seen, we are re-using Saturn V rocket technology to deliver cargo and people into space. 

I don't know enough to argue one way or another, but using the shuttle for every space mission seems enormously inefficient when rockets can deliver more cargo per dollar.
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Re: The End of an Era
« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2011, 10:08:39 PM »
Doc, for reasons I can't even begin to explain, I have always had an affection for our Space Program.  Probably all the pilots in my family.   :whatever: 

I just read your post aloud to my boyfriend, who has always been fascinated by our Space Program, especially the Saturn V.  He got a little "damp" in his eye hearing your story. 

Today is a sad day for our Space Program indeed.  I thank you for your contribution, and telling us your story. 
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Offline Chris_

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Re: The End of an Era
« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2011, 10:12:32 PM »
Since before the first Bush administration, I've seen news articles implying that NASA has been scouring for replacement parts for the shuttle... chips, drives, discs.  It's old technology and the shuttle was built on a budget to begin with.  Great idea at the time but if something is more efficient in terms of dollars spent is available, why not consider it? 

Personally, I'm not one to get dragged down by nostalgia very often.  I don't mean to trample on memories past, but the wine of youth is a heady thing.
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Offline TVDOC

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Re: The End of an Era
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2011, 10:16:22 PM »
From what I've seen, we are re-using Saturn V rocket technology to deliver cargo and people into space. 

I don't know enough to argue one way or another, but using the shuttle for every space mission seems enormously inefficient when rockets can deliver more cargo per dollar.

We're actually using a warmed-over version of the Atlas Centaur.....it's similiar to a Saturn only smaller (the remaining three Saturn V vehicles are all in museums.....in pieces, last I heard).  For really heavy lifting, we're using Russian boosters which have the largest payload capacity.

However all of these designs are over thirty years old.  We need a new generation of heavy-lift boosters with the capability to reach orbit on a single stage and be refuelled for further flight from an orbiting "gas station".  Lifting cargo from zero to a hundred miles altitude iis the problem (and zero to 17,000 mph), after that everything becomes far easier.

Recycling old technology won't give us the cargo capacity that we need for these missions.

And you are correct, the shuttle is hugely inefficient, especially now that we have engines that are capable of operating as either a rocket (above the atmosphere)or a jet (in the atmosphere) using the same fuel, there is no reason that we can't build an aircraft that will take off conventionally......reach orbit, and return under power like any other aircraft.

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Re: The End of an Era
« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2011, 10:18:45 PM »
I've seen blurbs and snippets about plasma rockets and find them extremely interesting but haven't found a lot of information to sink my teeth into.  Not that I would understand much of it, but they look pretty.
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Offline Eupher

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Re: The End of an Era
« Reply #11 on: July 08, 2011, 10:59:37 PM »
Wonderful story, doc.

You math guys scare the hell out of me.  :o   :bow:

That said, one of the things that we DON'T currently have that we DID have in your era was a friendly media. Walter Cronkite, liberal that he was, was a huge fan of the space program.

I can't think of a single media darling these days that comes even close to Cronkite's impact on the media and, by extension, the space program. We may not be doing much in our stratosphere and beyond until we get some help in that area.

Someone's got to SELL the space program. NASA does a dismal job of it, so that leaves the media. And they ain't steppin' up all that well right now.
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Offline MrsSmith

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Re: The End of an Era
« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2011, 05:44:24 AM »

As I'm certain you've guessed by now.....that young engineer was me.......

doc

Totally awesome, doc.  Totally.  My husband would just die to have done what you've done, or to have a piece of real history in his possession.


I don't know if our government will pull it's head out at any time in the future, but throwing away the space program will cost immensely more than keeping it.  The sheer numbers of innovations from that program have more than paid for it over the years.  Medical technology is only a tiny slice of it, and the space program was absolutely huge for medical innovation.

On our visit to Stennis last year, we looked at walls covered with mention of innovation after innovation that were all born from NASA.  I can't even begin to remember how many there were, thousands, literally thousands.  NASA innovation (and, of course, all those from private companies that worked for NASA) have literally changed every aspect of human life.  It's just incredible to me that our government is so uneducated and so short-sighted.  Eupher is right, though, the public, as a whole, is totally clueless about the thousands of benefits from that program, and the media have much to do with that.  Between our leftist MSM and our leftist school curriculum, our country has been  :censored:, just totally  :censored:.
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Offline compaqxp

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Re: The End of an Era
« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2011, 09:56:27 PM »
Very, very good story. Hi5.

I've always loved anything to do with space and while not smart enough to be a part of what goes into it, I love watching everything that goes on. I can only hope at some point the average person sees what value space programs are and in general, that the public becomes interested again.

Someone I know from up here won a contest to go see one of the last (I think second last) shuttles get launched. She loved it. I wish I had have been able to see one take off, but watching on the internet and TV over the years was all I could do.



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Re: The End of an Era
« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2011, 12:23:39 PM »

I don't know if our government will pull it's head out at any time in the future, but throwing away the space program will cost immensely more than keeping it.  The sheer numbers of innovations from that program have more than paid for it over the years.  Medical technology is only a tiny slice of it, and the space program was absolutely huge for medical innovation.

On our visit to Stennis last year, we looked at walls covered with mention of innovation after innovation that were all born from NASA.  I can't even begin to remember how many there were, thousands, literally thousands.  NASA innovation (and, of course, all those from private companies that worked for NASA) have literally changed every aspect of human life. 

As an interesting side-story to this, My team's tiny contribution to the lunar lander.......the radar unit used by the pilot to determine his rate of descent and altitude above the moon's surface during the actual approach and landing spawned a technological advance that all of us use today.

Up until that time radar transmitters were large heavy devices.......primarily due to the fact that the heart of the transmitter, the magnetron tube, relied on heavy iron magnets, and high voltage transformers to generate the radio "pulse" to send to the antenna.  A typical small airborne radar unit (transmitter, receiver, power supply) weighed 2 - 300 pounds.

When NASA gave us the required specifications for our device, not only did it have to be "precision" (able to determine distances precisely, which had not been done very successfully in the past), but it was limited to 15 pounds total weight.

We consulted engineers at Raytheon (the largest manufacturer of magnetron tubes for radar, at the time), and after a lot of experimentation came up with high-flux magnets that were not made from iron.......we made them out of a ceramic powder mixed with Nickel and several other rare-earth metals.  When sintered in a 50-ton press, the resulting magnets weighed 30 ounces, instead of 40 pounds, with a huge reduction in size for the same flux density.

We caught a break in a couple of areas......our system did not require shielding, as it was mounted externally on the bottom of the lander (saving a LOT of weight), and we were able to add a circuit board to the vehicles on-board computer to do the calculations for the "precision" measurements, and drive the pilot's altitude display.......the board only added seven ounces.

Many of us would be billionaires today if we made these advances in patentable private industry, however the beauty of the space program was that all of the engineering was in the "public domain", accessable (with some restrictions) to any group that wished to exploit it commercially later

There were a lot of other innovations in the system, which had little or no consumer applications down the road, however the new magnetron tube made practical something that is found in nearly everyone's kitchen today.

The microwave oven.........

doc
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Offline DLR Pyro

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Re: The End of an Era
« Reply #15 on: July 11, 2011, 01:05:58 PM »
As an interesting side-story to this, My team's tiny contribution to the lunar lander.......the radar unit used by the pilot to determine his rate of descent and altitude above the moon's surface during the actual approach and landing spawned a technological advance that all of us use today.

Awesome story and H5 to you for your service and contribution to the Moon landing.

What the pinheads who often say "the costs outweigh the benefits" in regards to the space program dont take into consideration the technological advances that transfered from the Apollo project to the civilian world.  I firlmy believe that personal computers became available to the masses 5 to 10 years earlier than they would have had we not challenged ourselves in the late '50's and '60's to get to the moon.  It is sad to see how out Nation's priorities have become misplaced.
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Offline TVDOC

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Re: The End of an Era
« Reply #16 on: July 11, 2011, 02:05:08 PM »
Awesome story and H5 to you for your service and contribution to the Moon landing.

What the pinheads who often say "the costs outweigh the benefits" in regards to the space program don't take into consideration the technological advances that transferred from the Apollo project to the civilian world.  I firmly believe that personal computers became available to the masses 5 to 10 years earlier than they would have had we not challenged ourselves in the late '50's and '60's to get to the moon.  It is sad to see how out Nation's priorities have become misplaced.

Well.....our contribution was minuscule compared to others........the mission was possible without our radar unit.  The crew carried small (backup) optical device similar to part of a surveyor's transit......which, when used through one of the lander's windows would give a fairly accurate altitude determination......but it required time to use, the results were not instantaneous.....time while the engine was running.......which required use of additional fuel.  Fuel was precious......fuel saved in the landing increased the amount available for takeoff and rendezvous with the orbiter (as it worked out there was plenty of fuel left)  Enough fuel that subsequent missions were able to land the sizable weight of the "rover".

Everything (obviously) in this mission was "theoretical".......it had never been done before.  Later missions were conducted with considerably more practical information......systems were changed, some equipment was discarded or considerably modified.  Other systems were added

When one considers the staggering number of unknown variables that were part of the mission it is simply mind-boggling that it succeeded........our system was not "mission critical", but thousands of other systems were.....all worked flawlessly for the most part.

One little known fact that kept the mission controllers and engineers, as well as the astronauts awake at night was the fact that no one knew for certain if the "ascent engine" (the rocket engine that lifted the capsule off of the landing platform for its return to lunar orbit) would start in a vacuum........it could never be tested.

I'm sure there are a million stories out there about the Apollo missions.........nearly all of us are old guys/gals now, and dying off or in retirement.  The part that is really unforgivable is that our government let the "talent  pool" that made it work slip away instead of moving on to the next challenge.

The shuttle was a good idea and a useful tool for a while, but it should have been immediately followed by more ambitious missions.......IMHO, the "International Space Station" was/is a total waste of time and resourses.  It's good PR, and "politically correct", but from a purely scientific point of view, it should have only lasted for about two years max, beyond that it is just window dressing, and a waste of resources........obsolete.

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Offline vesta111

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Re: The End of an Era
« Reply #17 on: July 12, 2011, 10:24:33 AM »
 Blah, we can do anything our mind or the minds of others imagine.

We went into space and built nuclear Submarines at the same time.   

About this time Microwave home ovens were in last stages of development, Lazar technology was taking off as was the building of the flight suits for pilots wear that filled with fluid to protect them.

All this, a slide rule and , the mind of humans.

We were perfecting equipment to dive under the sea-----The old round depths tables were still around.   I grew up seeing these on the coffee tables.

This was going so fast, the technology, the new findings that it boggled the mind of the every day person.

When did the era end, perhaps we, for some reason pulled back from space and heading out further into the planets.     Why did we do this, and pull back from heading out further. 

Cannot be the expense of the War, that ended about 5 years later, the next 20-30 years we had the money to go full head a steam and for the cost of the bank bail outs in our time, started colonising Mars.

If I had any say I would like the 7 seas to be searched before we head out to places that no one or earth really knows about.

We need to put our knowledge an technology first into our home planet---how else will we understand what we find in space.

Darn the end or an ERA means the end of thinking outside the box,  money spent on War and we are back centuries ago when all humans cared about was land and conquest on earth.

Offline DLR Pyro

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Re: The End of an Era
« Reply #18 on: July 12, 2011, 11:52:45 AM »
knows about.

We need to put our knowledge an technology first into our home planet---how else will we understand what we find in space.


You may not be aware of it, but one of the main reasons the environmental movment got it's legs in the late '60's was because of the pictures taken of our planet from the Apollo missions.  The earthrise photo from Apollo 8 is perhaps the most famous picture of planet Earth and shows how fragile and inviting our home planet is compared to the hostile environment of space. 

I have read that one of the Apollo astronauts (I can't remember which one it was) was once asked "what did you find when you went to the Moon?"   His reply was "I found the Earth". 
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Offline Wineslob

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Re: The End of an Era
« Reply #19 on: July 14, 2011, 10:26:01 AM »

Quote
We need to put our knowledge an technology first into our home planet---how else will we understand what we find in space.


The ammount of technology discovered from figuring out space travel would shock you.

We need to "keep reaching for the stars".
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Offline TVDOC

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Re: The End of an Era
« Reply #20 on: July 28, 2011, 11:13:14 AM »
Surprise, Surprise.......

http://news.yahoo.com/russia-orbit-international-space-station-203738133.html

AP article:

Synopsis:  In a surprise announcement, Russian space authorities plan to deorbit the ISS in 2020, to crash into the Pacific as they did with Mir.

Interesting, in that the station was constructed primarily with US taxpayer's funds, but now that the only way to access it is via Russian boosters, I guess they figure that not only can they hike the price that we have to pay for a "ride" to the ISS by a factor of three, but they can do whatever they want with it.

Not that I was ever a great fan of the ISS.....or any other "international" space activity, this just reinforces why the US should proceed with technological advances on our own (not that we ever will).  Let the "international community" spend their own f**king money.

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Offline Doc

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Re: The End of an Era
« Reply #21 on: July 28, 2011, 11:20:31 AM »
This is a year old, but appropriate to the discussion:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/science/space/article7010974.ece

Quote
President Obama to force Nasa to scrap manned flights to Moon


President Obama is to force NASA to ditch plans to send astronauts back to the Moon launched under the Bush Administration. New US Budget proposals to be presented today will kill off Nasa’s Constellation manned spaceflight programme, which aimed to put Americans on the Moon again by 2020 and to build a manned base.

President Obama will instead announce US Government incentives for private companies to develop commercial rockets capable of flying astronauts to the International Space Station (ISS), in low-Earth orbit.

Interesting, since as mentioned in the post above the ISS is now scheduled to be scrapped.....

Quote
The move spells the abandonment of the ambitious vision for US space exploration set out by President Bush in 2004, which envisaged retiring the remaining three space shuttles by 2010 and replacing them with vehicles capable of reaching the Moon.

A manned lunar base would then serve as a test bed for technologies that could ultimately support a manned mission to Mars.  The Orion crew vehicle and the Ares 1 launch rocket, which were planned as successors to the shuttle, have proved expensive to develop, and would have required substantial increases to Nasa’s budget were they to fly.

<exerpted>


Balance at link.........

Remind me.......which president is constantly referred to as "visionary"............and which one is not......

doc
« Last Edit: July 28, 2011, 11:32:14 AM by TVDOC »

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Re: The End of an Era
« Reply #22 on: July 28, 2011, 11:38:36 AM »


One little known fact that kept the mission controllers and engineers, as well as the astronauts awake at night was the fact that no one knew for certain if the "ascent engine" (the rocket engine that lifted the capsule off of the landing platform for its return to lunar orbit) would start in a vacuum........it could never be tested.

I will not dispute your first-hand knowledge.  I was under the impression that the miniseries "From the Earth to the Moon" indicated that one of the early (before 8) Apollo missions included operating the LM in Earth orbit, completed by jettisoning the...landing platform? (the part that would be left on the Moon) and returning to the CSM with a burn of the ascent engine.

Now I'll have to watch that (very enjoyable) series again...Thank you!   :wink:
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Offline FreeBorn

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Re: The End of an Era
« Reply #23 on: July 28, 2011, 12:36:08 PM »
Wow Doc, Wow! You've been blessed with an amazing life. I salute you, Sir.  :salutearmy:
It is partly because of the legion of unsung heroes such as yourself that my generation, growing up in the 70's were proud to be Americans. Because we had been to the moon, were winning the space race and the future promised to hold only more frontiers reached and more NASA triumphs guys like you were no small part of that which made America great.
Unfortunately I think you're dead right about Soetoro. I think he not only is knifing NASA in the back in order to facilitate another wholesale wipe out of yet another segment of our economy (like the Gulf region after the spill) and part of our national identity but also to give China a big leg up with the lack of competition. That son of a b!tch has done a lot of damage. Fortunately he will prove to be a small blip, just a speed bump in American history. I like to imagine some future President in the not too distant future, perhaps President West, (who would be BTW America's first African American President) at the podium reminiscent of JFK's speech that we will put a man on the moon, announcing that America is back in the game. I am confident that we will witness that soon.

Your description of the requirements handed down to your team to reinvent that radar and do so by producing a finished product thirty times smaller and with greater capabilities than its predecessors and the fact that you achieved it is nothing short of miraculous. You have made men like Harry Houdini and David Copperfield look like rank amateurs but your accomplishments were no illusion, it was the real thing.

I do believe America will indeed get back into the quest of space exploration, even though hobbled and neglected our space program will reassert itself as the undisputed leader once again. Somewhere out there right now is a bright young mind with "the right stuff" eager and hungry to take the baton from your generation and continue the sprint forward just as you have done.

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqk1v-KzZ5g[/youtube]


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Re: The End of an Era
« Reply #24 on: July 28, 2011, 01:10:16 PM »
Wow Doc, Wow! You've been blessed with an amazing life. I salute you, Sir.  :salutearmy:
It is partly because of the legion of unsung heroes such as yourself that my generation, growing up in the 70's were proud to be Americans. Because we had been to the moon, were winning the space race and the future promised to hold only more frontiers reached and more NASA triumphs guys like you were no small part of that which made America great.

Thank you!

However to give credit to where credit is due, I was told that over the course of the Apollo project, there were over 800,000 engineers and technicians working on "pieces of the puzzle".  Ours was only a tiny part, and a tiny group (three enginneers and two technicians, plus one part-time secretary).

Due to the time-frame set forth by JFK, the work had to be farmed out to thousands of companies and subcontractors.........most of which labored in total anomynity even to this day.

The really big pieces were accomplished by the folks at companies and groups like:

Jet Propulsion Laboratories
RocketDyne (General Dynamics)
Lockheed
McDonnell (later McDonnell-Douglass) Aircraft
IBM
Raytheon
General Electric
Westinghouse
General Motors
Ford
Chrysler Corp.
LTV
ALCOA
Collins Avionics
Narco Avionics

.......Just to name a few of the big players that I remember........it was truly a national effort.  I was also told that even to this day, no single effort has included such a large group of individual companies.....all working together.

Capitalism at its finest hour.

doc



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