Author Topic: Trip - You and Yellowstone  (Read 58528 times)

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Offline Carl

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Re: Trip - You and Yellowstone
« Reply #250 on: May 13, 2012, 02:18:29 PM »
The protection of the establishment is the same problem we have in politics today..  Those good ol boys are ok to demean and not address the facts presented.. Then as a persons of power they do not admonish those in the club, they admonish the person who is giving them facts...  where did Mr sock puppet address even one fact?  again behavior is telling...

I dont expect people to take me at my word,  I expect them to treat me as an adult, and respond as an adult, addressing facts, or even expressing a reason for their not giving the assertions credence.... something that is not being equally distributed here..

In any event I now see how this site is moderated and how it is applied..

You walk in to someones house and tell them within 5 minutes that their carpet is ugly and their choice of wall paper stinks they are not likely to ask you to stay for dinner...that is reality,sorry for that.

Now as I said this particular discussion ends here,post what you wish regarding facts and be clear what is opinion and all members are expected to enter the discourse civilly as well if they are in disagreement to anything presented.

Now carry on and no more discussion of anything other then the topic presented under the rules of the forum and all will abide by them.

Offline Chris

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Re: Trip - You and Yellowstone
« Reply #251 on: May 13, 2012, 02:26:41 PM »
The protection of the establishment is the same problem we have in politics today..  Those good ol boys are ok to demean and not address the facts presented.. Then as a persons of power they do not admonish those in the club, they admonish the person who is giving them facts.
You chose to pull your dick out with the previously-mentioned post.  Don't act surprised when it gets slapped.

Get back on topic or I will close this thread again.
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

Offline wasp69

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Re: Trip - You and Yellowstone
« Reply #252 on: May 14, 2012, 03:34:34 PM »
What I find stunning is the absolute obtuse nature some here have to things they do not understand.

I have spent many years watching Yellowstone, learning about it, watching changes, watching events....

You all can keep your tinfoil...  your gonna need it to survive when it goes...

I'm sure the all knowing sock puppet who posted above will tell you...http://www.conservativecave.com/index.php/topic,54746.0/msg,862752.html

I'll ask you here the same questions you ignored in a different thread:  Okay, what do we do about it?  Why are you still living in the initial kill zone if all signs are pointing at a massive eruption in the near future?
"We make men without chests and expect of them virtue and enterprise. We laugh at honor and are shocked to find traitors in our midst. We castrate and then bid the geldings to be fruitful."

C.S. Lewis

A community may possess all the necessary moral qualifications, in so high a degree, as to be capable of self-government under the most adverse circumstances; while, on the other hand, another may be so sunk in ignorance and vice, as to be incapable of forming a conception of liberty, or of living, even when most favored by circumstances, under any other than an absolute and despotic government.

John C Calhoun, "Disquisition on Government", 1840

Offline Trip

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Re: Trip - You and Yellowstone
« Reply #253 on: May 14, 2012, 04:34:21 PM »
I'll ask you here the same questions you ignored in a different thread:  Okay, what do we do about it?  Why are you still living in the initial kill zone if all signs are pointing at a massive eruption in the near future?

You didn't like my responses to your questions when I answered them  HERE?  Do you think that Billy_Bob's response will be all that different?   

Or perhaps you think you're making some inherent point in the asking, such as implying that he's not all that sincere in his belief if he still lives in Wyoming?

He might explain that its not the best time to sell a house and search for a job elsewhere, particularly not with family in school and other concerns, but I would hope you could grasp that on your own without any explanation.   It seems you're more content with implying something from his remaining in Wyoming, rather than actually considering the facts themselves.

Your presumptions about the explosive nature of Yellowstone are not really accurate either.

Even if we had all the data at hand, there'd be no ability to establish to a certainty that an eruption was going to occur.  While "all signs" are indeed escalating toward an eruption, there is no certainty that it would be a "massive" (explosive) eruption, even if it does erupt.  If we knew the melt consistency established by those seismic refraction surveys, we might have a better  idea whether it would be an explosive (massive) eruption, or not. However those results have not been stated publicly.  Despite lack of a public statement, I am reasonable certain that if the melt consistency, the viscosity, showed it was unable to be an explosive eruption, then they would have publicly announced it was of no concern, rather than continuing to relocate data and staff to Texas.

 Your questions really were not worth all that much attention the first time around, not to mention the errant presumptions involving likelihood of eruption of Yellowstone.

Why not just state outright that you don't believe the sincerity of his alarm because he's still in Wyoming, and save us all the dance?






Offline rich_t

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Re: Trip - You and Yellowstone
« Reply #254 on: May 14, 2012, 04:42:37 PM »
Trip...

In your opinion, if Yellow Stone does "blow big", how much of a face lift will it give that area?  How much destruction over what amount of land.

Several years ago I read a few articles about the underground super volcano in that area and per those articles the eruption could change the entire face of the map so to speak in that area.
"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of 'liberalism,' they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." --Norman Thomas, 1944

Offline Trip

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Re: Trip - You and Yellowstone
« Reply #255 on: May 14, 2012, 05:10:37 PM »
Trip...

In your opinion, if Yellow Stone does "blow big", how much of a face lift will it give that area?  How much destruction over what amount of land.

Several years ago I read a few articles about the underground super volcano in that area and per those articles the eruption could change the entire face of the map so to speak in that area.

The blast radius from Mt St Helens  was roughly 6 miles, in which trees were leveled like bowling pins and shredded.

In the event of an explosive eruption from Yellowstone, the blast radius could reach 80 to 100 miles.

In the event of a pyroclastic flow, it could reach out at least to 250 miles,  perhaps much more, and travel at 450 mph, with temperatures of about 1,830 °F.

Sources indicate the "kill zone" of a Yellowstone eruption, resulting from ejecta and poisonous gas, would reach out at least to 500 miles.

Then there's the substantial ashfall area beyond that, which would blanket the area downwind, and even small accumulations capable of causing roof collapse of all but the strongest of structures, and this could reach out to roughly 800 to 1000 miles. Volcanic ash is biologically inert, vitrified rock, basically glass, so it would be an obstacle to growing anything at all.

These are obviously all rough estimates.


An eruption would wipe out America's "breadbasket", killing off most of the nation's agriculture and cattle. This ignores the years of "volcanic winter" that would follow around the world, resulting in a greatly decreased growing season, and famine.
 
 
« Last Edit: May 14, 2012, 05:16:02 PM by Trip »

Offline rich_t

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Re: Trip - You and Yellowstone
« Reply #256 on: May 14, 2012, 05:29:58 PM »
The blast radius from Mt St Helens  was roughly 6 miles, in which trees were leveled like bowling pins and shredded.

In the event of an explosive eruption from Yellowstone, the blast radius could reach 80 to 100 miles.

In the event of a pyroclastic flow, it could reach out at least to 250 miles,  perhaps much more, and travel at 450 mph, with temperatures of about 1,830 °F.

Sources indicate the "kill zone" of a Yellowstone eruption, resulting from ejecta and poisonous gas, would reach out at least to 500 miles.

Then there's the substantial ashfall area beyond that, which would blanket the area downwind, and even small accumulations capable of causing roof collapse of all but the strongest of structures, and this could reach out to roughly 800 to 1000 miles. Volcanic ash is biologically inert, vitrified rock, basically glass, so it would be an obstacle to growing anything at all.

These are obviously all rough estimates.


An eruption would wipe out America's "breadbasket", killing off most of the nation's agriculture and cattle. This ignores the years of "volcanic winter" that would follow around the world, resulting in a greatly decreased growing season, and famine.
 
 

That would rather suck.
"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of 'liberalism,' they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." --Norman Thomas, 1944

Offline wasp69

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Re: Trip - You and Yellowstone
« Reply #257 on: May 14, 2012, 05:44:00 PM »
You didn't like my responses to your questions when I answered them  HERE?  Do you think that Billy_Bob's response will be all that different? 

I am asking Billy_Bob directly this time as referenced by the post I quoted.  I want to know what his answers are to those questions based upon his opinion of the posters of this site and their regard of facts. 

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Or perhaps you think you're making some inherent point in the asking, such as implying that he's not all that sincere in his belief if he still lives in Wyoming?

Nothing of the sort, I had no idea he lived in Wyoming (from the tone of the posts, I assumed it was in Utah). 

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He might explain that its not the best time to sell a house and search for a job elsewhere, particularly not with family in school and other concerns, but I would hope you could grasp that on your own without any explanation.

He could, I may, but I am looking for an answer from the man himself as to why he's staying if there is such an imminent threat of instant death.

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It seems you're more content with implying something from his remaining in Wyoming, rather than actually considering the facts themselves.

And you are assuming far too much from someone asking two very simple, direct questions of another poster.

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Your presumptions about the explosive nature of Yellowstone are not really accurate either.

I have no presumptions since I have no real knowledge of Yellowstone, only the witness of the aftermath of a major eruption and relatively minor eruptions afterwards (Pinatubo).  I would think that the fact I'm asking questions would bear that out.

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Even if we had all the data at hand, there'd be no ability to establish to a certainty that an eruption was going to occur.

Last year you said it was imminent based on seismic readings, I am certain there has been more to point towards your conclusions in the past year.  Again, I am only asking questions of someone who has been trained in something I have not.

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While "all signs" are indeed escalating toward an eruption, there is no certainty that it would be a "massive" (explosive) eruption, even if it does erupt.  If we knew the melt consistency established by those seismic refraction surveys, we might have a better  idea whether it would be an explosive (massive) eruption, or not. However those results have not been stated publicly.  Despite lack of a public statement, I am reasonable certain that if the melt consistency, the viscosity, showed it was unable to be an explosive eruption, then they would have publicly announced it was of no concern, rather than continuing to relocate data and staff to Texas.

Which kind of falls into line with the questions I have been asking you, doesn't it?

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Your questions really were not worth all that much attention the first time around, not to mention the errant presumptions involving likelihood of eruption of Yellowstone.

Why would you say that?  What makes you speak for Billy_Bob in this matter that I had two genuine items of curiosity that I wanted him to answer?  Someone comes looking for answers and you tell them that their questions were not worth the attention it would take to answer them?

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Why not just state outright that you don't believe the sincerity of his alarm because he's still in Wyoming, and save us all the dance?

Because it would be a lie if I did.  That's not why I'm asking, Trip.  To suggest otherwise would be a bit presumptive, would it not?
"We make men without chests and expect of them virtue and enterprise. We laugh at honor and are shocked to find traitors in our midst. We castrate and then bid the geldings to be fruitful."

C.S. Lewis

A community may possess all the necessary moral qualifications, in so high a degree, as to be capable of self-government under the most adverse circumstances; while, on the other hand, another may be so sunk in ignorance and vice, as to be incapable of forming a conception of liberty, or of living, even when most favored by circumstances, under any other than an absolute and despotic government.

John C Calhoun, "Disquisition on Government", 1840

Offline Trip

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Re: Trip - You and Yellowstone
« Reply #258 on: May 14, 2012, 06:02:21 PM »

Because it would be a lie if I did.  That's not why I'm asking, Trip.  To suggest otherwise would be a bit presumptive, would it not?

So you have a sincere  interest in why he makes the decisions he does for himself, his family, and his extended family, and none of this has anything to do with questioning the sincerity of his alarm?

If it doesn't have anything to do with challenging his assertions, then those questions are excessively personal and well beyond the consideration of this thread.  You actually skipped right past the obvious questions about what preparations and precautions he and his family have had in place, in truth for nearly the past year and half, which is a presumption of its own. The larger presumption here is that your own perception of reality, is the reality.

It doesn't take all that much insight to see that your intent is to imply his real level alarm does not coincide with what you perceive as his actions in his personal life. You're not nearly as subtle as you imagine.






Offline rich_t

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Re: Trip - You and Yellowstone
« Reply #259 on: May 14, 2012, 06:09:10 PM »
So you have a sincere  interest in why he makes the decisions he does for himself, his family, and his extended family, and none of this has anything to do with questioning the sincerity of his alarm?

If it doesn't have anything to do with challenging his assertions, then those questions are excessively personal and well beyond the consideration of this thread.  You actually skipped right past the obvious questions about what preparations and precautions he and his family have had in place, in truth for nearly the past year and half, which is a presumption of its own. The larger presumption here is that your own perception of reality, is the reality.

It doesn't take all that much insight to see that your intent is to imply his real level alarm does not coincide with what you perceive as his actions in his personal life. You're not nearly as subtle as you imagine.



Why don't you let Billy_Bob respond for himself, if he so desires, instead of presuming to speak for him?
"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of 'liberalism,' they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." --Norman Thomas, 1944

Offline wasp69

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Re: Trip - You and Yellowstone
« Reply #260 on: May 14, 2012, 06:24:09 PM »
So you have a sincere  interest in why he makes the decisions he does for himself, his family, and his extended family, and none of this has anything to do with questioning the sincerity of his alarm?

Yes, I do and no, it does not.

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You're not nearly as subtle as you imagine.

Nor nearly as diabolical as you are presuming.
"We make men without chests and expect of them virtue and enterprise. We laugh at honor and are shocked to find traitors in our midst. We castrate and then bid the geldings to be fruitful."

C.S. Lewis

A community may possess all the necessary moral qualifications, in so high a degree, as to be capable of self-government under the most adverse circumstances; while, on the other hand, another may be so sunk in ignorance and vice, as to be incapable of forming a conception of liberty, or of living, even when most favored by circumstances, under any other than an absolute and despotic government.

John C Calhoun, "Disquisition on Government", 1840

Offline Trip

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Re: Trip - You and Yellowstone
« Reply #261 on: May 14, 2012, 06:25:37 PM »
Why don't you let Billy_Bob respond for himself, if he so desires, instead of presuming to speak for him?

Because I showed him my original response to the question directed to him the first time, and he obviously didn't feel any further answer of his own was necessary. He did not "miss" the question; he chose to not say anything further than my response.

Because over the past 15 months I've had numerous lengthy discussions with him about his remaining in Wyoming, and his level of preparedness, and I pretty much know his considerations, none of which are involved in a real consideration of this thread's topic, and many of which are entirely too personal to even want to air on an Internet forum.

Because, fundamentally, its a dumb question with an obvious intent.

 

Offline wasp69

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Re: Trip - You and Yellowstone
« Reply #262 on: May 14, 2012, 06:30:15 PM »
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Because I showed him my original response to the question directed to him the first time, and he obviously didn't feel any further answer of his own was necessary.

You showed it to him?  He couldn't read it for himself?  He is a member of this forum, is he not?

Because, fundamentally, its a dumb question with an obvious intent.

Obvious intent of what, Trip?  Questioning his sincerity?  I don't think that could rationally be done considering the amount and tone of the words on these two threads in Science Club.
"We make men without chests and expect of them virtue and enterprise. We laugh at honor and are shocked to find traitors in our midst. We castrate and then bid the geldings to be fruitful."

C.S. Lewis

A community may possess all the necessary moral qualifications, in so high a degree, as to be capable of self-government under the most adverse circumstances; while, on the other hand, another may be so sunk in ignorance and vice, as to be incapable of forming a conception of liberty, or of living, even when most favored by circumstances, under any other than an absolute and despotic government.

John C Calhoun, "Disquisition on Government", 1840

Offline Trip

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Re: Trip - You and Yellowstone
« Reply #263 on: May 14, 2012, 06:46:36 PM »
You showed it to him?  He couldn't read it for himself?  He is a member of this forum, is he not?

Yeah, i showed it to him, primarily because I answered for him, and wanted to give him the opportunity  to comment further, if he so chose. We're friends, and he's got other things he's concerned with; his 54 forum posts show he's not here that often.  Member of the forum? I guess that depends on who you ask.

Obvious intent of what, Trip?  Questioning his sincerity?  I don't think that could rationally be done considering the amount and tone of the words on these two threads in Science Club.

Just to understand, you're trying to imply that words are not routinely a cause to question sincerity in real application?

Those words are precisely why you've deemed it appropriate to question his real actions in his personal life. If not, then what possibly could legitimize such personal questions? What he does in his personal life obviously has nothing to do with the science involved in Yellowstone volcanism.


« Last Edit: May 14, 2012, 07:01:09 PM by Trip »

Offline TVDOC

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Re: Trip - You and Yellowstone
« Reply #264 on: May 14, 2012, 08:12:12 PM »
Admin locking.......PM sent where appropriate.

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