The .357 Magnum: An All-Around Survival Cartridge

[BlueStateSaint]

I was thinking more on the into the woods survival mode. I carry my Ruger LCR loaded with Hornady critical defence all the time and have my Mossberg 500 pistol grip loaded with 00 buck and turkey shot for home defence. I like the idea of 2 guns same ammo and the 44mag is depenable on most any game or threat in my neck of the woods. I have hunted squrrels with it. Takes the top of their head off clean!!

I'm still anglin' for a levergun in .357 Mag.  I might have a lead on one . . . but it'll be a few weeks yet.

[DumbAss Tanker]

I've got a Rossi 92 I bought used many years ago, it pairs nicely with either of the two .357 wheelguns I have - a S&W Highway Patrolman and a repro single action.  For anyone unfamiliar with that S&W model, it's built on the N frame with a 6" barrel and fully adjustable quality sights, not the smaller K frame of the Model 19, and so it is rather heavy, but also incredibly solid and accurate.

[BlueStateSaint]

I've got a Rossi 92 I bought used many years ago, it pairs nicely with either of the two .357 wheelguns I have - a S&W Highway Patrolman and a repro single action.  For anyone unfamiliar with that S&W model, it's built on the N frame with a 6" barrel and fully adjustable quality sights, not the smaller K frame of the Model 19, and so it is rather heavy, but also incredibly solid and accurate.

One of the Rossis is in my sights at the moment.  It'll be a while to get the cash, but . . .

[BlueStateSaint]

And now Ruger steps up with this . . .

http://www.ruger.com/products/rotaryMagazine77357/extras.html

It looks as if it'd be a decent woods rifle, pretty much along the lines of the 77/44 they make.

[DumbAss Tanker]

And now Ruger steps up with this . . .

http://www.ruger.com/products/rotaryMagazine77357/extras.html

It looks as if it'd be a decent woods rifle, pretty much along the lines of the 77/44 they make.

That's pretty sweet, I have to say.

On the .45 LC:  One of the biggest pluses of the .357 is the tremendous and universal availability of ammo that it will digest in loadings that range from 'possum-poppers to one-shot manstoppers, practically anywhere in the US.  While the .45 LC has a lot of potential in the cartridge, it was developed in an age when guns had much lower safe pressures and therefore the commercial loads you generally find for it in a random store, if you have to restock away from home, tend to be pretty anemic.  The popularity of single-aciton shooting has only aggravated this, if that's what happens to be in stock when you do find ammo, since in the interests of getting rounds off rapidly to pop a target, they are even more underloaded and not a particularly good choice for general hunting and defense purposes.   

[BlueStateSaint]

That's pretty sweet, I have to say.

My father still thinks I'm not all that bright for wanting one.  I keep telling him that the .357 Mag out of a rifle translates into damn near a .30-30, but I keep winding up like this:

I tell Dad that it's all about bullet placement, not bullet size.

[DumbAss Tanker]

I guess it depends on what you mean by 'Size,' but .357 bullets weigh in on roughly the same range of weights that covers the .30-30, an 'Average' non-specialized bullet for both being around 150-160 grains, ranging up to about 180 and down to about 110 for both.

The .30-30 bullet is certainly faster (Though slow by high-power rifle standards) but also narrower in diameter, so that the .357 tends to deliver better terminal ballistics (Wound cavity, energy transfer, etc.) at the ranges either one is likely to be used (Though the .30-30 has a flatter trajectory, not many people would be looking to engage anything over 200 yards away with either one of them).

[BlueStateSaint]

I guess it depends on what you mean by 'Size,' but .357 bullets weigh in on roughly the same range of weights that covers the .30-30, an 'Average' non-specialized bullet for both being around 150-160 grains, ranging up to about 180 and down to about 110 for both.

The .30-30 bullet is certainly faster (Though slow by high-power rifle standards) but also narrower in diameter, so that the .357 tends to deliver better terminal ballistics (Wound cavity, energy transfer, etc.) at the ranges either one is likely to be used (Though the .30-30 has a flatter trajectory, not many people would be looking to engage anything over 200 yards away with either one of them).

I should have explained myself better.  I meant "velocity."   

And, at the deer camp I belong to, the last 13-14 deer taken have been at ranges under 100 yards.  The .357 would seem to do a good job at that range.

[DumbAss Tanker]

Average shot here in the Ozarks is a hundred or less too, so rounds like the 7.62x39, .30-30, and .357 are perfectly satisfactory for hunting here.  A .308, .30-06, 8mm or 8mm Mauser, or 7.62X54R may be a little on the strong side for it, but then the old farmers and such go buy the 'You use what ya got' rule on that, and there are a pretty fair number of them as well.  Of course there is always a certain percentage of the hunters out there with a .300 Mag, .338, or some other God-awful supercannon. 

[LC EFA]

My newest rifle (laid by at the local gun shop so there won't be another "marlin debacle" ) is a 35 Whelen in a Remmy 7600. I understand that one can load 357 pistol projectiles as a cheaper less killy alternative to the rifle projectiles.

[BlueStateSaint]

My newest rifle (laid by at the local gun shop so there won't be another "marlin debacle" ) is a 35 Whelen in a Remmy 7600. I understand that one can load 357 pistol projectiles as a cheaper less killy alternative to the rifle projectiles.

.35 Whelen, IIRC, is a necked-up .30-06.  It should kill a lot.  But, once again, it's all about where the bullet winds up in the target.

[rustybayonet]

My choice is and has been during my hunting days - S&W .37 mag for defense.  When I was hunting when I lived in MI, because of the thick swamp and brush I hunted, I carried a .44 mag, both Ruger Blackhawk 6" and a .44 mag Marlin lever action.  For both .44's I had loaded  with CCI Primers, H110 fast burning powder, 240 grain Hi Sierra semi-jacketed hollow points.  At 50 yards, the Ruger was almost dead on, then out to 100 yards the handgun had a 62" drop.  The Marlin cut the 100 yard drop to about 15-18 inches because of the longer barrel.  
In a 10 year period, I bagged three deer using only the handgun and 5 deer with the rifle, all opening morning.  During that time period, one year I was sure glad to have the .44 Ruger - while dragging the deer back to the truck, a black bear came out on me, about 40 yards away, was sure happy when it didn't want to 'play' and went back into the brush.

[BlueStateSaint]

I saw this one on Gabe Suarez' Warrior Talk Forums.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/05/chris-dumm/lever-action-ballistics-30-30-vs-357-magnum/

The .357 almost gets to the .30-30, but not quite.  Within 100 yards, though . . . 

[DumbAss Tanker]

I saw this one on Gabe Suarez' Warrior Talk Forums.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/05/chris-dumm/lever-action-ballistics-30-30-vs-357-magnum/

The .357 almost gets to the .30-30, but not quite.  Within 100 yards, though . . . 

Good article. 

There are really three phases of ballistics:

1 - Internal ballistics:  What goes on from the cap being busted until the bullet leaves the muzzle, such as max pressure, pressure curve (Rather different for rifle vs. pistol powders), rifling rate of twist, muzzle crown effects, etc.

2 - External ballistics:  The bullet in flight, such as muzzle energy in ft-lbs., velocity, gyroscopic stability of the bullet, aerodynamic effects, etc.; generally a smaller-diameter bullet has an advantage here.  But, given that muzzle energy is a kinetic energy measure (MV² * 1/2), velocity counts for a very great deal in this measure, which may give a somewhat false impression of the final effect on target, due to the third element -

3 - Wound, or terminal ballistics:  What happens when the bullet actually hits, particularly how rapidly the bullet transfers its remaining energy to the target.  Absolutely meaningless in shooting at paper or through chronometer, but the essence of defensive or game shooting.  A great deal depends on bullet shape and expansion characteristics here, and narrower-diameter bullets have a disadvantage because the same aerodynamic reasons that help them keep velocity apply to the hydrodynamic environment of the wound, i.e. they expand slower, making a longer but less-disrupted wound cavity.  In my own experience, there ain't all that much to a deer's chest, and it's all too possible for a rifle bullet to go completely through the SOBs without putting them down.

Still, the biggest advantage of the .357 is that you can pack a sidearm that takes the same fodder, which is not so critical hunting but could easily be life-or-death in a survival situation.  The ammo for both the .30-30 and .357 is ubiquitous, of course the .357 does have the advantage that you can fire .38 Spl out of it in a pinch, which is if anything even more common.     

[Erasmus]

A pistol-caliber lever action is on my list of guns to buy next.  I have a few 30-30's already.  Just looking for the right one with the, longer, octagonal barrel.  Either 357 or 44.