Author Topic: Bag of worms  (Read 3976 times)

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Offline vesta111

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Bag of worms
« on: September 27, 2010, 08:15:21 AM »
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/pulpit-freedom-sunday-pastors-defy-irs-by-talking-politics/

I need some in site into this.

Will this harm us in the long or short run if Christian Pastors have the right to spew political thoughts  and ideas to the congregation ?

These same rights will be given to the leaders of the Muslim Faith.

So now how can we possibly stop ideas of terrorism  in our country's Mosques?

On the outside of the theory, the people in this link sound just and true-----but---Rev. Wright is an example of what can go wrong.

How many steps from someone in the pulpit ranting about America to the Mosque down the street saying the same thing.?

I am perturbed by this problem as I am wondering if the Christian Churches are not being led astray, by outside forces.




Offline thundley4

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Re: Bag of worms
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2010, 09:01:29 AM »
Muslims already do this since Islam is not a religion, but a political/religious/societal set of laws.  For years the DemonRat politicians have been giving speeches and making political appearances at churches. How about "The Reverend" Jesse Jackson, he is all about politics, but his organization remains tax exempt. Why should Christian churches be the only ones to be restrained by the IRS?

Offline JohnnyReb

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Re: Bag of worms
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2010, 09:27:32 AM »
Muslims already do this since Islam is not a religion, but a political/religious/societal set of laws.  For years the DemonRat politicians have been giving speeches and making political appearances at churches. How about "The Reverend" Jesse Jackson, he is all about politics, but his organization remains tax exempt. Why should Christian churches be the only ones to be restrained by the IRS?

Can I get an AMEN?

...and BTW, Muslims don't abide by infidel laws any more than absolutely necessary.
And that especially holds true for "Income Tax" laws, I am told.
“The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of ‘liberalism’, they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened.” - Norman Thomas, U.S. Socialist Party presidential candidate 1940, 1944 and 1948

"America is like a healthy body and its resistance is threefold: its patriotism, its morality, and its spiritual life. If we can undermine these three areas, America will collapse from within."  Stalin

Offline MrsSmith

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Re: Bag of worms
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2010, 10:24:21 AM »
Quote
In 1954, Congress approved an amendment by Sen. Lyndon Johnson to prohibit 501(c)(3) organizations, which includes charities and churches, from engaging in any political campaign activity.
http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=161131,00.html

Prior to 1954, throughout the entire history of our nation, pastors had full Free Speech rights.  They could, and did, endorse and oppose candidates.  Our country survived quite well.  In fact, it would seem that a careful reading of history could point to this legislation as some of the first passed to severely restrict the First Amendment...legislation that has grown into laws that now prohibit things like political advertisements, and Christian speech in public areas.
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Offline Mr Mannn

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Re: Bag of worms
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2010, 11:52:53 AM »
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/pulpit-freedom-sunday-pastors-defy-irs-by-talking-politics/

I need some in site into this.

Will this harm us in the long or short run if Christian Pastors have the right to spew political thoughts  and ideas to the congregation ?

These same rights will be given to the leaders of the Muslim Faith.

So now how can we possibly stop ideas of terrorism  in our country's Mosques?

On the outside of the theory, the people in this link sound just and true-----but---Rev. Wright is an example of what can go wrong.

How many steps from someone in the pulpit ranting about America to the Mosque down the street saying the same thing.?

I am perturbed by this problem as I am wondering if the Christian Churches are not being led astray, by outside forces.

What is it about Free Speech that scares you so much? --thats the issue here.

Its already been pointed out that leftist pastors and muslims already ignore the IRS rules of political speech.
These two groups ignore the law with impunity. They know that no one will prosecute them.
--Seriously. Black churches do this all the time.

the only threat of prosecution is against CONSERVATIVE speech in the pulpit. Pastors who even talked about the evils of abortion are threatened to be prosecuted. Obama's pastor of 20 years was never ever threatened even after his tapes were shown to be almost all about politics.


So the Left ignores the law. Why then are you threatened if the right seeks to legally speak in freedom?



and certainly I take issue with your reference to a pastor speaking about conservative issues and idea as Spewing at the congregation.

And how can you say say that free speech will lead a congregation astray?

Aren't you really arguing for govt regulation of religious speech?
Liberals are always threatened by people of faith. Do we scare you?

Offline vesta111

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Re: Bag of worms
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2010, 02:58:56 PM »
What is it about Free Speech that scares you so much? --thats the issue here.

Its already been pointed out that leftist pastors and muslims already ignore the IRS rules of political speech.
These two groups ignore the law with impunity. They know that no one will prosecute them.
--Seriously. Black churches do this all the time.

the only threat of prosecution is against CONSERVATIVE speech in the pulpit. Pastors who even talked about the evils of abortion are threatened to be prosecuted. Obama's pastor of 20 years was never ever threatened even after his tapes were shown to be almost all about politics.


So the Left ignores the law. Why then are you threatened if the right seeks to legally speak in freedom?



and certainly I take issue with your reference to a pastor speaking about conservative issues and idea as Spewing at the congregation.

And how can you say say that free speech will lead a congregation astray?

Aren't you really arguing for govt regulation of religious speech?
Liberals are always threatened by people of faith. Do we scare you?

There are times in everyones life growing up that we remember like it happend yesterday.

I was raised in a small church Congregational that hired a young pastor that we all loved.   He had a lovely wife and a couple of kids my age.

He was not like the old Pastors we were used to ,this Man of God made one think about ourselves and believed that just faith in Jesus was useless with out doing good works in his name.

One day my grandma came home crying uncontrollably, seems that as she was on the board of deaconess the rest of the board had decided to fire this Pastor due to just one sermon he gave about free speech.

He was afraid for the country because of the McCarthy hearings and neighbors turning against each other, people loosing their jobs because they may have slipped and voiced their openion that was not popular at the time.

The conserved members of the congregation were horrified that their pastor would stand up for the Communists, the blight on America according to Old Joe, in Washington.   

This was my first introduction into the world of adult paranoia and censership. Years later as a young mother living in Conn. I was horrified to find that by state law---late 1960's ----I would spend a year in jail if I were to give out information on birth controll of any kind by word or written.  In fact we military dependents were warned not to carry the birth controll pills in our purse that could only be gotten on a military base as to carry them off base could be reason for arrest.

Free speech has its boundary's and today we are again loosing it.

Now we have laws against using certain words that are in the dictionary, it is called Hate Speech, discrimination and not PC.

However this is warped as the courts are given great latitude on this.

Example, if my purse is stolen on the street by a man in drag, I have to describe him as just that, if I yell after him as he runs down the street with my purse,  "Stop that Faggot" and someone goes after the thief and knocks him down, the SOB can walk due to Hate speech and whoever tackled him will face charges that they attacked him because he was wearing a dress---

Have you ever heard of any non white going to jail for hate speech for calling someone a Cracker, Honkie, White Trash, Gringo, Frog, Kraut, Jap, Greaser, you get the idea I hope.   All these words are fine and not hate speech.

Because of all this in my life I indeed was a liberal excepting for abortion rights and our military.   We were at freaking war and I supported our Troops.  Aborting was killing people, I have never thought anyway else.

Took a long time for me to realise that the Conservatives of my youth were nothing like today's Conservatives, it was my oldest son that convinced me to study and pay attention to politics. 

So Mr. Mannn, just to set the record straight, as things stand today I am a Conservative in this stage of life, most likely this will be the last stage of life for me at my age.

Sorry about this long post, I just feel that to make a decision on someones ideas without knowing where they come from and what leads up to their ideas is a bit short sighted.

I :heart: you too.













Offline MrsSmith

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Re: Bag of worms
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2010, 09:32:35 PM »
There are times in everyones life growing up that we remember like it happend yesterday.


He was afraid for the country because of the McCarthy hearings and neighbors turning against each other, people loosing their jobs because they may have slipped and voiced their openion that was not popular at the time.

The conserved members of the congregation were horrified that their pastor would stand up for the Communists, the blight on America according to Old Joe, in Washington.   

This was my first introduction into the world of adult paranoia

I just want to mention that Ann Coulter proved that McCarthy was correct in his fight against Communism.  Declassified government documents made that quite clear.  She extensively footnoted the book...I can look up the name if you're interested.
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Offline Thor

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Re: Bag of worms
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2010, 10:19:51 PM »
I just want to mention that Ann Coulter proved that McCarthy was correct in his fight against Communism.  Declassified government documents made that quite clear.  She extensively footnoted the book...I can look up the name if you're interested.

While, I, too, believe that McCarthy was right in prosecuting Communists, I think that he carried it a bit too far. Just some small innuendo that someone MIGHT be a Communist or a Communist sympathizer got them blacklisted or even worse. Never mind the fact that a witnesses statement might be misconstrued or even an outright lie. Never mind the facts or the fact that Freedom of Speech exists, no matter how repulsive or antagonistic we might deem it to be.
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Offline MrsSmith

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Re: Bag of worms
« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2010, 07:16:31 PM »
While, I, too, believe that McCarthy was right in prosecuting Communists, I think that he carried it a bit too far. Just some small innuendo that someone MIGHT be a Communist or a Communist sympathizer got them blacklisted or even worse. Never mind the fact that a witnesses statement might be misconstrued or even an outright lie. Never mind the facts or the fact that Freedom of Speech exists, no matter how repulsive or antagonistic we might deem it to be.
The actions of every person cannot be blamed upon McCarthy.  The world will always be full of those that pre-judge others. 
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Offline Habsfan

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Re: Bag of worms
« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2010, 08:58:11 PM »
Nevermind
« Last Edit: October 04, 2010, 09:08:42 PM by Habsfan »