Author Topic: I Want My Country Back  (Read 18811 times)

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Offline TheSarge

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Re: I Want My Country Back
« Reply #25 on: July 21, 2010, 01:07:16 AM »
I am just here to learn and I can dish out as well as I take it. 

Thank you for the welcome

Stick to the facts and you'll be fine.

Continue the typical Liberal tripe like what you've read into the Constitution that isn't there and you might find your stay not as pleasant.

Lib talking points and DNC Dogma doesn't fly here.
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The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years.  The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

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Offline Angry Dragon

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Re: I Want My Country Back
« Reply #26 on: July 21, 2010, 01:23:00 AM »
No...that's the PREAMBLE to the Constitution.

If you're gonna accuse somemone of not quoting something correctly...make damn sure you know what YOU are talking about first.

That is in the Declaration of Independence and I paraphrased that in my other post to point out that nothing was ever guaranteed to you in this country beyond "certain unalienable rights".

Neither of the things in your post that I pointed out are included in those "rights"

With your crappy reading comprehension you took two separate parts of my post and mashed them into one.

My first question to you had to deal with where in the Constitution the bolded parts of what you said were found and where were we obligated to provide them.

You come back with the Preamble and an accusation that I'm quoting falsely.
 
:whatever:


General welfare does NOT mean government mandated healthcare any more than it means special treatment for gays nor does it provide in the "general welfare" the right to abortion demand.

It's up to the states to provide for those as they see fit.  It is NOT the job if the Federal Government despite what you Libs believe and try to force upon the rest of us.


The Preamble is part of the Constitution.  It states the goals of the new government and the rest of the Constitution is how the people plan to do it.  You quoted the Declaration of Independence and mentioned it as if it was part of the Constitution in your first post.  The Declaration did not set up any part of the government, it was just a letter stating why this country no longer wanted to be governed by England.  No where did I mention gays nor abortion.  If you want to put words in my posts show me where I wrote them.  As for the HCR bill I think it is not worth the paper it is written on.  It will not accomplish the intended result.

If you want to accuse me of something then you better have your facts straight.  Attack me if you wish but you have no idea what I think nor feel.  How would you like it if I accused you of being something you are not??  

I will tell you that the gay, abortion, the hate, the anger problems are getting to the point of tearing this country apart.  You can spew all the anger you want but it will not solve the problems this country is facing.    

Offline Thor

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Re: I Want My Country Back
« Reply #27 on: July 21, 2010, 01:25:11 AM »
Something makes me tend to think that the Angry Dragon would also suggest that the 2nd Amendment was only meant for those folks in the "militia" and would probably define the "militia" as the Reserves or National Guard......
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Offline Angry Dragon

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Re: I Want My Country Back
« Reply #28 on: July 21, 2010, 01:28:41 AM »
Stick to the facts and you'll be fine.

Continue the typical Liberal tripe like what you've read into the Constitution that isn't there and you might find your stay not as pleasant.

Lib talking points and DNC Dogma doesn't fly here.


All I see you stating are standard conservative talking points.  Anytime you want to talk facts is fine with me.  I have an open mind, can you say the same thing??  

Offline Angry Dragon

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Re: I Want My Country Back
« Reply #29 on: July 21, 2010, 01:33:52 AM »
Something makes me tend to think that the Angry Dragon would also suggest that the 2nd Amendment was only meant for those folks in the "militia" and would probably define the "militia" as the Reserves or National Guard......

I do understand that is what is written in the Constitution but I believe that the common person should have the right to own guns.  I would like to think it would not be necessary to be able to own ak47s nor machine guns.  I own guns and would be pissed if someone wanted to take them away.

Offline TheSarge

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Re: I Want My Country Back
« Reply #30 on: July 21, 2010, 01:41:30 AM »

You quoted the Declaration of Independence and mentioned it as if it was part of the Constitution in your first post.

Ummm...no here is what I said:

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Where in the Constitution or the Bill Of Rights does it say those things that I bolded are required or guaranteed?

The other things you mentioned...minus the honest government pabulum are already there.


Quote
The Declaration did not set up any part of the government, it was just a letter stating why this country no longer wanted to be governed by England.  No where did I mention gays nor abortion.  If you want to put words in my posts show me where I wrote them.  As for the HCR bill I think it is not worth the paper it is written on.  It will not accomplish the intended result.

The Declaration put forth in VERY clear language why we deserve to be the Country we are today.

You should REALLY stop reading the Cliff Notes/Liberal version.

Quote
If you want to accuse me of something then you better have your facts straight.  Attack me if you wish but you have no idea what I think nor feel.  How would you like it if I accused you of being something you are not??  

You've made it painfully clear how you think.  You believe that somehow the General Welfare part of the Preamble means the Federal Government is supposed to provide affordable healthcare and education"...roger...got it.

You're wrong.

Quote
I will tell you that the gay, abortion, the hate, the anger problems are getting to the point of tearing this country apart.  You can spew all the anger you want but it will not solve the problems this country is facing.    


The controversies over all of those issues are a creation and a monster fostered and cared for by the Leftists in this country as a way to put fear into people and ensure that they keep getting votes.

There are no "rights" in this country that Homosexuals aren't entitled to under the Constitution.

Abortion...the murder of the unborn...is NOT a right in the Constitution...I don't care what kind of bad law the Supreme Court used at the time.  It wasn't in the Constitution in 1972 and it isn't in there now.

Hate?  You wnt to see what "hate" is in this country? We have a section of this Forum called "The DUmpster".  It tracks the hate of the Liberals in this country and a prominent site of theirs called DemocratUnderground.com.

Angry...bitter...petty...it's all right there.

The majority of this country is not racist...bigoted homophobic or for the most part angry.  And I include myself in that majority.

What you have is a political party that focuses on a sliver of the population...magnifies and harps on it so much that people begin to believe...yourself included...that it's prevalent through out the nation.

That is just not the case.
Liberalism Is The Philosophy Of The Stupid

The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years.  The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

If it walks like a donkey and brays like a donkey and smells like a donkey - it's Cold Warrior.  - PoliCon



Palin has run a state, a town and a commercial fishing operation. Obama ain't run nothin' but his mouth. - Mark Steyn

Offline TheSarge

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Re: I Want My Country Back
« Reply #31 on: July 21, 2010, 01:44:12 AM »

All I see you stating are standard conservative talking points.  Anytime you want to talk facts is fine with me.  I have an open mind, can you say the same thing??  

:whatever:

Just as I thought.  Another typical Liberal cemented in the Hive mentality.

I have been talking facts with you.

I have stated plainly that certain things you think we have the "right" to are NOT owed us in the Constitution.

You've spun and avoided those facts as hard and as fast as you could.

And you've got the nerve to say that I am the one not having an open mind?
Liberalism Is The Philosophy Of The Stupid

The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years.  The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

If it walks like a donkey and brays like a donkey and smells like a donkey - it's Cold Warrior.  - PoliCon



Palin has run a state, a town and a commercial fishing operation. Obama ain't run nothin' but his mouth. - Mark Steyn

Offline TheSarge

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Re: I Want My Country Back
« Reply #32 on: July 21, 2010, 01:47:54 AM »
I do understand that is what is written in the Constitution

Starts off good...
Quote
but I believe that the common person should have the right to own guns.

:thatsright:  Damn! He proves Thor correct in his assumption.




Quote
I would like to think it would not be necessary to be able to own ak47s nor machine guns.  I own guns and would be pissed if someone wanted to take them away.

What's wrong with owning an AK-47?  Don't see anywhere in the 2nd Amendment where it tells you what KIND of gun you can or can't own.
Liberalism Is The Philosophy Of The Stupid

The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years.  The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

If it walks like a donkey and brays like a donkey and smells like a donkey - it's Cold Warrior.  - PoliCon



Palin has run a state, a town and a commercial fishing operation. Obama ain't run nothin' but his mouth. - Mark Steyn

Offline RightCoast

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Re: I Want My Country Back
« Reply #33 on: July 21, 2010, 02:05:11 AM »
Quote
I own guns and would be pissed if someone wanted to take them away.
Where you from Dragon? That's a very oddly worded phrase.
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Offline Angry Dragon

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Re: I Want My Country Back
« Reply #34 on: July 21, 2010, 02:21:18 AM »
Ummm...no here is what I said:


The Declaration put forth in VERY clear language why we deserve to be the Country we are today.

You should REALLY stop reading the Cliff Notes/Liberal version.

You've made it painfully clear how you think.  You believe that somehow the General Welfare part of the Preamble means the Federal Government is supposed to provide affordable healthcare and education"...roger...got it.

You're wrong.

The controversies over all of those issues are a creation and a monster fostered and cared for by the Leftists in this country as a way to put fear into people and ensure that they keep getting votes.

There are no "rights" in this country that Homosexuals aren't entitled to under the Constitution.

Abortion...the murder of the unborn...is NOT a right in the Constitution...I don't care what kind of bad law the Supreme Court used at the time.  It wasn't in the Constitution in 1972 and it isn't in there now.

Hate?  You wnt to see what "hate" is in this country? We have a section of this Forum called "The DUmpster".  It tracks the hate of the Liberals in this country and a prominent site of theirs called DemocratUnderground.com.

Angry...bitter...petty...it's all right there.

The majority of this country is not racist...bigoted homophobic or for the most part angry.  And I include myself in that majority.

What you have is a political party that focuses on a sliver of the population...magnifies and harps on it so much that people begin to believe...yourself included...that it's prevalent through out the nation.

That is just not the case.


The CONSTITUTION not the Government says you have the right to peruse "life liberty and happiness"    This what you wrote, quoting the Declaration and not the Constitution.  The Declaration did not give any rights.

I agree with you that the Declaration said why we deserved to govern ourselves but it did say how we were going to do that.

General Welfare  That is what the Constitution guaranteed the people, how would you do that??

"There are no "rights" in this country that Homosexuals aren't entitled to under the Constitution"   I am not sure I understand this sentence that you wrote.  Are you saying the homosexuals have the same rights as you??

I did not bring up the subject of abortion, it seemed that you wanted to push that issue.

You talk about hate as if it is just a fact on the Democratic side, perhaps you should go to the Free Republic website and see the hate voiced there.  I do travel the web and what I see is a lot of fear, anger, hate.  I see racism.  I see bigotry.  I have not accused anyone here of those things.  These are just things I have seen.  They are not just part of one party nor one group of people.  




Offline Angry Dragon

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Re: I Want My Country Back
« Reply #35 on: July 21, 2010, 02:24:15 AM »
Where you from Dragon? That's a very oddly worded phrase.


I am from the midwest and I am confused why that sounds oddly worded to you??

Offline Angry Dragon

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Re: I Want My Country Back
« Reply #36 on: July 21, 2010, 02:28:14 AM »

:whatever:

Just as I thought.  Another typical Liberal cemented in the Hive mentality.

I have been talking facts with you.

I have stated plainly that certain things you think we have the "right" to are NOT owed us in the Constitution.

You've spun and avoided those facts as hard and as fast as you could.

And you've got the nerve to say that I am the one not having an open mind?


I read your quotes at the bottom of your posts.  That does sound a little set in ones' way.

Tell me what facts I have avoided as hard and as fast as I could.


Offline Revolution

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Re: I Want My Country Back
« Reply #37 on: July 21, 2010, 04:30:20 AM »

All I see you stating are standard conservative talking points. Anytime you want to talk facts is fine with me.  I have an open mind, can you say the same thing??  

Not for nothin', but I personally think you're treading dangerous water, darlin'. It doesn't seem like you've come here to talk facts, or have civil conversation at all. I stopped at this quote, because I wanted to alert you about the fire that is being heavily stoked here. Mostly on account of you. Starting a war with Radioguy, or anyone else with "You just have talking points, I have facts." tripe isn't going to get you anywhere. You have an air of arrogance, and self importance about you, and so far, I think it sucks, to be frank.

Again, my only goal here is to steer you in a less aggressive direction to make your life here easier. If you choose to ignore it, I'm afraid the ride down may be fun for you, but you'll still hit bottom at some point or another.

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Offline Carl

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Re: I Want My Country Back
« Reply #38 on: July 21, 2010, 04:43:37 AM »
If you come back please explain the origin of your screen name as it was pointed out once in regards to a poster at the DUmp with the same handle it is a term for a sexual act that is vile and abusive to women.


Offline formerlurker

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Re: I Want My Country Back
« Reply #39 on: July 21, 2010, 04:57:26 AM »
Hello, I am new here.

I hesitate to post on this website.  The reason I say that is because I probably disagree with most of the Republican talking points.  At the same time I also realize that to get my country back I need to better understand the Republican point of view.  I also hear the Republicans say that they want their country back.  Are both sides correct or are they both wrong??  

I am here to get honest discussions, arguments are fine if they are based on facts and not just talking points.  My premise is that both Republicans and Democrats have lost their country to the politicians and the power elite.  I feel they are out of touch with the common man and woman, the ones that are just trying to eck out a living day to day.  The only way to get the country back is for Republicans and Democrats to really hear each other and work together to bring this country back to Founding Fathers' intent for this country.  

I am walking into enemy territory and saying hey, we can continue fighting each other and one day in the future the power elite and the corporations will rule this country and we will be serfs or we can work together and bring the power elite down and once again the people will be the ones with the power.  I guess it is your choice, either we better understand each other or we all go down together.  Either way we will end up with the same fate.

Rip me apart if you like or we can sit down and talk.

Angry Dragon

You claim you don't want "talking points," then go ahead and spew some liberal nonsense about power elites and corporations ruling the country.

I kind of see where this is going.

 
 :whatever:



  



Offline Revolution

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Re: I Want My Country Back
« Reply #40 on: July 21, 2010, 05:10:12 AM »
If you come back please explain the origin of your screen name as it was pointed out once in regards to a poster at the DUmp with the same handle it is a term for a sexual act that is vile and abusive to women.

I was thinking the exact same thing, but didn't want to pull the trigger. I'm also curious as to the reason this chew toy chose the name.

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Quote from: Greg Gutfeld
If Ft. Hood was "workplace violence," then the Hindenburg was an air show.

Guns do not kill people. Rotting, festering, disgusting, grimy, evil, un-reparable souls kill people.

Quote
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Offline RightCoast

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Re: I Want My Country Back
« Reply #41 on: July 21, 2010, 06:20:21 AM »

I am from the midwest and I am confused why that sounds oddly worded to you??

Gun owners don't say "I own guns", just like Corvette owners don't say "I own a Corvette." I was trying to determine if you're simply posing or if maybe you type with an accent ~ having an accent would be fine, posing would not.

Maybe you could go into more detail about just what part of "your" country you want back?
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Offline Angry Dragon

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Re: I Want My Country Back
« Reply #42 on: July 21, 2010, 09:54:30 AM »
Gun owners don't say "I own guns", just like Corvette owners don't say "I own a Corvette." I was trying to determine if you're simply posing or if maybe you type with an accent ~ having an accent would be fine, posing would not.


I do own guns.  I used to hunt and have not for quite awhile.  I do not own any hand guns nor rifles.  You talk of having an accent and posing, I am not sure what you mean by that.   

Quote
Maybe you could go into more detail about just what part of "your" country you want back?


I honestly believe that the average person of this country has lost their voice in government.  The elected officials in both parties seem not to listen to the people they represent.  It has become more about getting re-elected than serving the people that they work for.  I honestly fear that the American people are losing their country and the only way to stop that is for the average person in both parties is for them to work together from a common ground to get their voices heard.

 

Offline Angry Dragon

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Re: I Want My Country Back
« Reply #43 on: July 21, 2010, 10:14:33 AM »
If you come back please explain the origin of your screen name as it was pointed out once in regards to a poster at the DUmp with the same handle it is a term for a sexual act that is vile and abusive to women.




Same person.  You can look up the answer that I gave.  At the time I picked the name I had no idea it was a vile sexual act.  I came here not trying to hide, but to be as honest as I could be.  How can I expect you and I to be able to talk about the things that we find important if we hide?? 

Offline Angry Dragon

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Re: I Want My Country Back
« Reply #44 on: July 21, 2010, 10:21:07 AM »
Not for nothin', but I personally think you're treading dangerous water, darlin'. It doesn't seem like you've come here to talk facts, or have civil conversation at all. I stopped at this quote, because I wanted to alert you about the fire that is being heavily stoked here. Mostly on account of you. Starting a war with Radioguy, or anyone else with "You just have talking points, I have facts." tripe isn't going to get you anywhere. You have an air of arrogance, and self importance about you, and so far, I think it sucks, to be frank.

Again, my only goal here is to steer you in a less aggressive direction to make your life here easier. If you choose to ignore it, I'm afraid the ride down may be fun for you, but you'll still hit bottom at some point or another.

Thank you for the advice.  I was accused of just having talking points and was not taken seriously for my beliefs. 

Offline Angry Dragon

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Re: I Want My Country Back
« Reply #45 on: July 21, 2010, 10:25:44 AM »
You claim you don't want "talking points," then go ahead and spew some liberal nonsense about power elites and corporations ruling the country.

I kind of see where this is going.

 
 :whatever:
I honestly believe that the people with money, the corporations, lifetime elected politicians are controlling more and more of this country and it scares me.  I feel we all are losing this country to the few with power.  This may or not be a liberal talking point, but it is my belief.


  



« Last Edit: July 21, 2010, 12:12:52 PM by TVDOC »

Offline USA4ME

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Re: I Want My Country Back
« Reply #46 on: July 21, 2010, 12:34:12 PM »
At the same time I also realize that to get my country back I need to better understand the Republican point of view.  I also hear the Republicans say that they want their country back.  Are both sides correct or are they both wrong??  

.... both Republicans and Democrats have lost their country to the politicians and the power elite.  I feel they are out of touch with the common man and woman, the ones that are just trying to eck out a living day to day.  The only way to get the country back is for Republicans and Democrats to really hear each other and work together to bring this country back to Founding Fathers' intent for this country.  

.... we can continue fighting each other and one day in the future the power elite and the corporations will rule this country and we will be serfs or we can work together and bring the power elite down and once again the people will be the ones with the power.

Based upon you wanting cooperation between two factions, I'll be glad to inform you what would need to take place in order to get me personally, as a Conservative, to join in order to wrestle the Federal Gov't back to where it needs to be.

First of all, my concern is that of too large a gov't that slowly regulates and encroaches upon what should be the people's responsibility.  That would have to be the focus.  I've examined the claims that corporations are trying to "rule the country" as you stated, but have personally found that viewpoint to be baseless.  Seeing that I would have no reason to fight against an entity or group of entities (in this case, multi-national corporations) which I do not believe are a threat, I am not willing to join to fight something that doesn't exist and/or isn't trying to take place.

As far as “basic rights” being (your abbreviated list) “Equal education, civil rights, basic affordable health care, equal protection under the law (laws that apply to everyone and not just the common person), honest government,” there are some we already have.  I’m not really sure of what “equal education” consists, but if that means Federal oversight of education, then I’m not willing to join in that fight.  If “basic affordable healthcare” means universal and/or single-payer healthcare, then I will not join that fight either.  In fact, I would go as far to say that if we ever got single-payer and/or universal healthcare, or we had Federal control over the schools without any regard of the individual States, we’d have just hit the express button for this nation to eventually become a place where “the (gov’t)  power elite … will rule this country and we will be serfs,” something you claim you don’t want, and neither do I.  I see no reason to help speed up that effort.  These matters should be left up to the individual States and to the local communites to decide how best to address.  If the “General welfare does include education and health care,” then this country will eventually collapse economically, for these things cannot be indefinitely sustained.  I have no reason to fight for things that will destroy the country eventually.

I am willing to join hands in order to help advance a nation that upholds morality.  Abortion and homosexuality are immoral.  I have no reason to join hands with those who defend immorality.

If the political left really want to know how to join hands, they need to drop the notion that a bloated gov’t and additional laws and regulations placed upon the American people and the companies they form in order to conduct business is a good thing.  That was never the Founding Father’s intent.  If we want to go back to that, we should just tell England we’d like to become colonies again.  So far, the solutions offered from the left to the nation’s problems all point to this country eventually becoming a left-wing totalitarian dictatorship.  It might take 50 years, or 100 years, or longer, but that will be the end result.  And I’ve read enough of their comments and viewpoints to convince me that many of them desire that result.

So there is my short list.  If they want cooperation from me in order to give the country back to the people, then they need to fight for freedom and liberty from an ever-expanding role of the Federal Gov’t in our lives, or no deal.

.
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Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

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Re: I Want My Country Back
« Reply #47 on: July 21, 2010, 12:47:49 PM »
Hello,

I am here to learn.  My understanding is that the Republican party is more conservative than the Democratic party.  One is more for status quo and the other is more for change.  I also understand that labels do not answer all the questions so that is why it is important to talk to understand the other person.  
My understanding of conservatism is conservative aren't for the status quo but rather they appreciate and incorporate the lessons of history.

Being rooted in history does not equate with stasis.

I honestly believe that the people with money, the corporations, lifetime elected politicians are controlling more and more of this country and it scares me.  I feel we all are losing this country to the few with power.  This may or not be a liberal talking point, but it is my belief.
Your belief is not unfounded. But as history tells us: it was ever thus.

What the people here do NOT want to see is the government racing in to claim it seeks to rein in the rich and powerful...because the government IS the rich and powerful or at least their bought and paid-for representatives.

What we want is the government to be so scaled back that its ability to use regulations, laws etc to crush the little guy is taken away. That isn't to say we want economic/social anarchy, that serves no ones interest.

We also don't like collective punishment embodied in many of these so-called reform schemes. Just because BP is a bad actor doesn't mean every oil producer is bad and they should not be punished unless and until they have been found to have acted improperly.

Ditto for the fact that taxes and regulations just add to the cost of production and as such invariably become passed dow to the consumer. That being said it becomes obvious that all of the so-called efforts to impart "fairness" really just hurt the people such schemes profess to protect.
According to the Bible, "know" means "yes."

Offline Doc

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Re: I Want My Country Back
« Reply #48 on: July 21, 2010, 01:00:02 PM »
Well...AD, I'm late to the party, but here is your first problem, as I see it:

Quote
No, it does not.  Everyone in this country is equal, we just have different strengths and weaknesses.  Should we cast aside the ones that struggle more with live than others, should we cast aside people because they are not as intelligent as the average??  It is my belief that everyone in this country deserves to have the same basic rights.  We may disagree what those basic rights are, but I am sure some would be the same

Everyone in this country is NOT equal, nor will they ever be, nor is it the government's role to attempt to accomplish that goal......our founders stated that "All men are created equal......", but after that creation, the equality ends, and nowhere in our founding documents or principles does the role exist to generate "equality" for anyone, other than "equal justice under the law"......the country needs ditchdiggers, as well as rocket scientists, and they are never going to be "equal", except hypothetically, for their treatment under our ;egal system.

I, for one, will never compromise with anyone, or any political party which stands for the principle of attempting to equalize outcomes for all its citizens.......therefore, there (at least in the present political environment) appears to be little that we can do to "reach across the aisle"........

It is the role of the government to create the environment for "equality of opportunity"......what each of us does with that opportunity is purely up to the individual.

doc

Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

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Re: I Want My Country Back
« Reply #49 on: July 21, 2010, 01:05:47 PM »
Well...AD, I'm late to the party, but here is your first problem, as I see it:

Everyone in this country is NOT equal, nor will they ever be, nor is it the government's role to attempt to accomplish that goal......our founders stated that "All men are created equal......", but after that creation, the equality ends, and nowhere in our founding documents or principles does the role exist to generate "equality" for anyone, other than "equal justice under the law"......the country needs ditchdiggers, as well as rocket scientists, and they are never going to be "equal", except hypothetically, for their treatment under our ;egal system.

I, for one, will never compromise with anyone, or any political party which stands for the principle of attempting to equalize outcomes for all its citizens.......therefore, there (at least in the present political environment) appears to be little that we can do to "reach across the aisle"........

It is the role of the government to create the environment for "equality of opportunity"......what each of us does with that opportunity is purely up to the individual.

doc

All people should be equal in the eyes of the law regardless of socio-economic status, race, peaceful political affiliation, religion etc.

But equality of result is a poison that will kill us because the people deciding what constitutes equality and how to achieve it always exempt themselves and those of us who become less equal lose the means to oppose them when their excesses invariably become abuses.
According to the Bible, "know" means "yes."