Author Topic: I Want My Country Back  (Read 18644 times)

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Offline Angry Dragon

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I Want My Country Back
« on: July 20, 2010, 10:35:58 PM »
Hello, I am new here.

I hesitate to post on this website.  The reason I say that is because I probably disagree with most of the Republican talking points.  At the same time I also realize that to get my country back I need to better understand the Republican point of view.  I also hear the Republicans say that they want their country back.  Are both sides correct or are they both wrong?? 

I am here to get honest discussions, arguments are fine if they are based on facts and not just talking points.  My premise is that both Republicans and Democrats have lost their country to the politicians and the power elite.  I feel they are out of touch with the common man and woman, the ones that are just trying to eck out a living day to day.  The only way to get the country back is for Republicans and Democrats to really hear each other and work together to bring this country back to Founding Fathers' intent for this country. 

I am walking into enemy territory and saying hey, we can continue fighting each other and one day in the future the power elite and the corporations will rule this country and we will be serfs or we can work together and bring the power elite down and once again the people will be the ones with the power.  I guess it is your choice, either we better understand each other or we all go down together.  Either way we will end up with the same fate.

Rip me apart if you like or we can sit down and talk.

Angry Dragon

   


Offline Chris

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Re: I Want My Country Back
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2010, 10:38:24 PM »
Your thread has been moved to a more appropriate forum.

Welcome to Conservative Cave.
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

Offline Thor

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Re: I Want My Country Back
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2010, 10:40:51 PM »
Your first mistake is that you've apparently confused the terms, Republican" and "Conservative". Rethink your stance and you may enjoy some decent debate or conversation.
"The state must declare the child to be the most precious treasure of the people. As long as the government is perceived as working for the benefit of the children, the people will happily endure almost any curtailment of liberty and almost any deprivation."- IBID

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Offline debk

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Re: I Want My Country Back
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2010, 11:04:24 PM »
Welcome.

Just hand over the chocolate...back away slowly...far away....and you won't get hurt....

Save the Earth... it's the only planet with chocolate.

"My therapist told me the way to achieve true inner peace is to finish what I start. So far I've finished two bags of M&M's and a chocolate cake. I feel better already." – Dave Barry

A balanced diet is chocolate in both hands.

Offline Angry Dragon

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Re: I Want My Country Back
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2010, 11:08:18 PM »
Hello,

I am here to learn.  My understanding is that the Republican party is more conservative than the Democratic party.  One is more for status quo and the other is more for change.  I also understand that labels do not answer all the questions so that is why it is important to talk to understand the other person.  

Offline debk

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Re: I Want My Country Back
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2010, 11:09:49 PM »
Hello,

I am here to learn.  My understanding is that the Republican party is more conservative than the Democratic party.  One is more for status quo and the other is more for change.  I also understand that labels do not answer all the questions so that is why it is important to talk to understand the other person.  

Not only to talk, but more importantly to be able to listen, not just hear.
Just hand over the chocolate...back away slowly...far away....and you won't get hurt....

Save the Earth... it's the only planet with chocolate.

"My therapist told me the way to achieve true inner peace is to finish what I start. So far I've finished two bags of M&M's and a chocolate cake. I feel better already." – Dave Barry

A balanced diet is chocolate in both hands.

Offline Chris_

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Re: I Want My Country Back
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2010, 11:10:06 PM »
Hello,

I am here to learn.  My understanding is that the Republican party is more conservative than the Democratic party.
That is not always the case.  I'm not saying the Democratic party has anything to recommend it, but parts of the GOP are certainly no better.

Quote
One is more for status quo and the other is more for change.
I think you need to stop listening to campaign ads and taking them literally. 
If you want to worship an orange pile of garbage with a reckless disregard for everything, get on down to Arbys & try our loaded curly fries.

Offline Angry Dragon

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Re: I Want My Country Back
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2010, 11:23:32 PM »
Not only to talk, but more importantly to be able to listen, not just hear.

Hello debk,

People tell me I am natural listener, and if I do not understand someone i will ask questions so I do understand.  Actually hearing someone is more important than listening.  Listening is just the act of paying attention. Hearing is the actual event of feeling what the other person is saying, being able to put yourself in that persons place and feeling what they are feeling.

Offline debk

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Re: I Want My Country Back
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2010, 11:29:28 PM »
So...tell us more about yourself...non-political.

Sometimes, it's easier to find common ground and then get into the heavier discussions. While most of us here are Conservatives and there are several threads that discuss politics.... we are a very mixed group, and we do talk about and have interests in, all kinds of things that have nothing to do with politics. 
Just hand over the chocolate...back away slowly...far away....and you won't get hurt....

Save the Earth... it's the only planet with chocolate.

"My therapist told me the way to achieve true inner peace is to finish what I start. So far I've finished two bags of M&M's and a chocolate cake. I feel better already." – Dave Barry

A balanced diet is chocolate in both hands.

Offline Angry Dragon

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Re: I Want My Country Back
« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2010, 11:31:44 PM »
Hello chris,

I really do not listen to campaign ads, I listen to more of what they say out in public and how they vote.  I question all politicians, all parties.  That is why I came here, to understand the real people.  You seem to disagree with my understanding of the parties, so I ask you to tell me where I am mistaken.  

Offline Chris_

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Re: I Want My Country Back
« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2010, 11:35:20 PM »
I'm just wondering how you square a comment like this:
My premise is that both Republicans and Democrats have lost their country to the politicians and the power elite.

with this one:
Quote
One is more for status quo and the other is more for change.


If you want to worship an orange pile of garbage with a reckless disregard for everything, get on down to Arbys & try our loaded curly fries.

Offline Angry Dragon

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Re: I Want My Country Back
« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2010, 11:39:56 PM »
So...tell us more about yourself...non-political.

Sometimes, it's easier to find common ground and then get into the heavier discussions. While most of us here are Conservatives and there are several threads that discuss politics.... we are a very mixed group, and we do talk about and have interests in, all kinds of things that have nothing to do with politics. 


I golf, not very good, but I enjoy the fresh air, the pitting of myself against the course, the relaxation that comes with the effort.  I enjoy reading, spy novels, mysteries, I read reference books to gain knowledge.  I enjoy the companionship and beauty of animals.  I hate hypocrites and hypocrisy.  I enjoy a good and honest debate.  I enjoy expanding my mind.  I write poetry when the mood hits me.  I enjoy asking questions and answering questions.  

I can be passionate about things that are important to me.

Offline Chris_

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Re: I Want My Country Back
« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2010, 11:48:34 PM »
Welcome to the CC
If you want to worship an orange pile of garbage with a reckless disregard for everything, get on down to Arbys & try our loaded curly fries.

Offline Angry Dragon

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Re: I Want My Country Back
« Reply #13 on: July 20, 2010, 11:52:10 PM »
I'm just wondering how you square a comment like this:
with this one:



Just so you know that these are my opinions and they may be wrong so correct me if I am.

I hear both sides say that they feel they have lost control of what is happening in this country.  Conservatives feel that government is taking too much control of their lives and the Democrats are of the opinion that the government needs to provide for the basic needs of the people.  I feel that this can be accomplished for both sides.  It will take a lot of hearing and a responsive government to achieve this.

As far as the second quote is concerned it has to do with conservatives feel that the government is encroaching more and more into our lives, while my side I guess would say that government should make sure everyone has the same chances to succeed.  I probably am not saying this as well as it should be said.  I am just trying not to go so deep here as I could.  

Offline debk

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Re: I Want My Country Back
« Reply #14 on: July 20, 2010, 11:54:04 PM »

I golf, not very good, but I enjoy the fresh air, the pitting of myself against the course, the relaxation that comes with the effort.  I enjoy reading, spy novels, mysteries, I read reference books to gain knowledge.  I enjoy the companionship and beauty of animals.  I hate hypocrites and hypocrisy.  I enjoy a good and honest debate.  I enjoy expanding my mind.  I write poetry when the mood hits me.  I enjoy asking questions and answering questions.  

I can be passionate about things that are important to me.


There's a book thread under Hobbies, in the Interests forum. Also a cooking thread is over there, if you have any interest in food and cooking.

Most of us have pets, there are also some ranchers and farmers here.

College football is an interest for many too.

I would venture a guess, that everyone here can be passionate about things that are important to them. We are particularly passionate about our country and our military people. There are several active duty military people here, some who are currently in and some who have recently returned from Iraq or Afghanistan.
Just hand over the chocolate...back away slowly...far away....and you won't get hurt....

Save the Earth... it's the only planet with chocolate.

"My therapist told me the way to achieve true inner peace is to finish what I start. So far I've finished two bags of M&M's and a chocolate cake. I feel better already." – Dave Barry

A balanced diet is chocolate in both hands.

Offline Chris_

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Re: I Want My Country Back
« Reply #15 on: July 20, 2010, 11:58:02 PM »
Just so you know that these are my opinions and they may be wrong so correct me if I am.

I hear both sides say that they feel they have lost control of what is happening in this country.  Conservatives feel that government is taking too much control of their lives and the Democrats are of the opinion that the government needs to provide for the basic needs of the people.  I feel that this can be accomplished for both sides.  It will take a lot of hearing and a responsive government to achieve this.

As far as the second quote is concerned it has to do with conservatives feel that the government is encroaching more and more into our lives, while my side I guess would say that government should make sure everyone has the same chances to succeed.  I probably am not saying this as well as it should be said.  I am just trying not to go so deep here as I could. 

To the bolded:

Is that like saying everyone deserves a participation trophy?
If you want to worship an orange pile of garbage with a reckless disregard for everything, get on down to Arbys & try our loaded curly fries.

Offline Angry Dragon

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Re: I Want My Country Back
« Reply #16 on: July 21, 2010, 12:07:49 AM »
To the bolded:

Is that like saying everyone deserves a participation trophy?

Hi Evil_Conservative,

No, it does not.  Everyone in this country is equal, we just have different strengths and weaknesses.  Should we cast aside the ones that struggle more with live than others, should we cast aside people because they are not as intelligent as the average??  It is my belief that everyone in this country deserves to have the same basic rights.  We may disagree what those basic rights are, but I am sure some would be the same. 

Offline Chris_

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Re: I Want My Country Back
« Reply #17 on: July 21, 2010, 12:09:36 AM »
What are those basic rights?
If you want to worship an orange pile of garbage with a reckless disregard for everything, get on down to Arbys & try our loaded curly fries.

Offline Angry Dragon

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Re: I Want My Country Back
« Reply #18 on: July 21, 2010, 12:15:41 AM »
What are those basic rights?

Equal education, civil rights, basic affordable health care, equal protection under the law (laws that apply to everyone and not just the common person), honest government,

That is all that come to mind at this time

Offline TheSarge

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Re: I Want My Country Back
« Reply #19 on: July 21, 2010, 12:22:35 AM »
Equal education, civil rights, basic affordable health care, equal protection under the law (laws that apply to everyone and not just the common person), honest government,

That is all that come to mind at this time

Where in the Constitution or the Bill Of Rights does it say those things tat I bolded are required or guaranteed?

The other things you mentioned...minus the honest government pabulum are already there.

Quote
I guess would say that government should make sure everyone has the same chances to succeed.

The CONSTITUTION not the Government says you have the right to peruse "life liberty and happiness".  No where was it ever guaranteed or promised to you on a silver platter.

If you want those things get off your ass and go do what needs to be done to make sure you have them.

Don't sit around on your ass expecting them to be GIVEN to you.
Liberalism Is The Philosophy Of The Stupid

The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years.  The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

If it walks like a donkey and brays like a donkey and smells like a donkey - it's Cold Warrior.  - PoliCon



Palin has run a state, a town and a commercial fishing operation. Obama ain't run nothin' but his mouth. - Mark Steyn

Offline littlelamb

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Re: I Want My Country Back
« Reply #20 on: July 21, 2010, 12:26:26 AM »
Welcome to the Cave be prepared when you come in here don't expect to be treated with kid gloves
Good girls are bad girls that never get caught.

Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it, misdiagnosing it and then misapplying the wrong remedies.

Offline Angry Dragon

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Re: I Want My Country Back
« Reply #21 on: July 21, 2010, 12:47:56 AM »
Where in the Constitution or the Bill Of Rights does it say those things tat I bolded are required or guaranteed?

The other things you mentioned...minus the honest government pabulum are already there.

The CONSTITUTION not the Government says you have the right to peruse "life liberty and happiness".  No where was it ever guaranteed or promised to you on a silver platter.

If you want those things get off your ass and go do what needs to be done to make sure you have them.

Don't sit around on your ass expecting them to be GIVEN to you.



We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain  and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

That is what the Constitution says.  So if you are going to quote something why don't you take the time to quote the correct thing??

General welfare does include education and health care.  We the people are the government.

Offline Angry Dragon

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Re: I Want My Country Back
« Reply #22 on: July 21, 2010, 12:55:52 AM »
Welcome to the Cave be prepared when you come in here don't expect to be treated with kid gloves

I am just here to learn and I can dish out as well as I take it. 

Thank you for the welcome

Offline littlelamb

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Re: I Want My Country Back
« Reply #23 on: July 21, 2010, 01:01:37 AM »
Well I hope you have thick skin
Good girls are bad girls that never get caught.

Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it, misdiagnosing it and then misapplying the wrong remedies.

Offline TheSarge

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Re: I Want My Country Back
« Reply #24 on: July 21, 2010, 01:03:59 AM »

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain  and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

That is what the Constitution says.  So if you are going to quote something why don't you take the time to quote the correct thing??

No...that's the PREAMBLE to the Constitution.

If you're gonna accuse somemone of not quoting something correctly...make damn sure you know what YOU are talking about first.

Quote
We hold these truths to be self evident...that ALL men are created equal...that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights...that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

That is in the Declaration of Independence and I paraphrased that in my other post to point out that nothing was ever guaranteed to you in this country beyond "certain unalienable rights".

Neither of the things in your post that I pointed out are included in those "rights"

With your crappy reading comprehension you took two separate parts of my post and mashed them into one.

My first question to you had to deal with where in the Constitution the bolded parts of what you said were found and where were we obligated to provide them.

You come back with the Preamble and an accusation that I'm quoting falsely.
 
:whatever:


Quote
General welfare does include education and health care.  We the people are the government.

General welfare does NOT mean government mandated healthcare any more than it means special treatment for gays nor does it provide in the "general welfare" the right to abortion demand.

It's up to the states to provide for those as they see fit.  It is NOT the job if the Federal Government despite what you Libs believe and try to force upon the rest of us.
Liberalism Is The Philosophy Of The Stupid

The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years.  The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

If it walks like a donkey and brays like a donkey and smells like a donkey - it's Cold Warrior.  - PoliCon



Palin has run a state, a town and a commercial fishing operation. Obama ain't run nothin' but his mouth. - Mark Steyn