Author Topic: subtle difference  (Read 1424 times)

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Offline franksolich

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subtle difference
« on: March 20, 2008, 02:52:37 PM »
Hey, I wonder if anyone else has ever noticed there's a subtle difference in Easter greetings, between this time and place, and the socialist paradises of the workers and peasants; it's something I noticed about ten, eleven, years ago, when wandering around the former Soviet Union.

In English, the greeting is, "Christ has risen."

In Russian, Ukrainian, Belarussian, and Moldovan, the greeting is, "Christ is risen."

It looks as if just a minor difference, but actually it's a pretty major one.
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Offline Flame

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Re: subtle difference
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2008, 03:31:21 PM »
I always have said "is", with of course, the proper response being "He is risen, indeed"

Offline Chris_

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Re: subtle difference
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2008, 05:10:13 PM »
Christ the Lord is Risen Today
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Christ, the Lord, is risen today, Alleluia!
Sons of men and angels say, Alleluia!
Raise your joys and triumphs high, Alleluia!
Sing, ye heavens, and earth, reply, Alleluia!

Love’s redeeming work is done, Alleluia!
Fought the fight, the battle won, Alleluia!
Lo! the Sun’s eclipse is over, Alleluia!
Lo! He sets in blood no more, Alleluia!

Vain the stone, the watch, the seal, Alleluia!
Christ hath burst the gates of hell, Alleluia!
Death in vain forbids His rise, Alleluia!
Christ hath opened paradise, Alleluia!

Lives again our glorious King, Alleluia!
Where, O death, is now thy sting? Alleluia!
Once He died our souls to save, Alleluia!
Where thy victory, O grave? Alleluia!

Soar we now where Christ hath led, Alleluia!
Following our exalted Head, Alleluia!
Made like Him, like Him we rise, Alleluia!
Ours the cross, the grave, the skies, Alleluia!

Hail, the Lord of earth and Heaven, Alleluia!
Praise to Thee by both be given, Alleluia!
Thee we greet triumphant now, Alleluia!
Hail, the resurrection, thou, Alleluia!

King of glory, Soul of bliss, Alleluia!
Everlasting life is this, Alleluia!
Thee to know, Thy power to prove, Alleluia!
Thus to sing and thus to love, Alleluia!

Hymns of praise then let us sing, Alleluia!
Unto Christ, our heavenly King, Alleluia!
Who endured the cross and grave, Alleluia!
Sinners to redeem and save. Alleluia!

But the pains that He endured, Alleluia!
Our salvation have procured, Alleluia!
Now above the sky He’s King, Alleluia!
Where the angels ever sing. Alleluia!

Jesus Christ is risen today, Alleluia!
Our triumphant holy day, Alleluia!
Who did once upon the cross, Alleluia!
Suffer to redeem our loss. Alleluia!



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Offline JohnMatrix

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Re: subtle difference
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2008, 02:12:34 AM »
I guess its because He rose again back then and is not in a perpetual cycle of rising again?  I don't know, those are my thoughts on it.
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Offline franksolich

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Re: subtle difference
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2008, 04:38:01 AM »
I guess its because He rose again back then and is not in a perpetual cycle of rising again?  I don't know, those are my thoughts on it.

I dunno.

I recall that when wandering around the socialist paradises of the workers and peasants, a big deal was made out of this, and the Orthodox considered the Roman Catholic and Protestant versions utter heresy.

An interesting people, the Orthodox, utterly fascinating.

Their main "enemy," I suppose, is the Roman Catholic Church, from which they split in 1054 or 1154 or something like that, whenever the Great Schism was.  With Poland then serving as an impenetrable wall, the Reformation of the early 1500s never seeped into Russia, and so eastern Europeans have little or no knowledge of Protestantism.

The Roman Catholic Church evolved into a "universal" church, irrespective of national boundaries, while the Orthodox Church evolved wholly along national lines; the Russian Orthodox, the Greek Orthodox, the Ukrainian Orthodox, the Romanian Orthodox, the Bulgarian Orthodox; just lots and lots of different groups.

While I was there, there was a great scandal associated with the Ukrainian Orthodox Church, which had just split away from the Russian Orthodox Church, and was seeking a new leader.  The man selected was Lithuanian, who had been born and baptized a Lutheran, ordained a Russian Orthodox priest, a near-life-long resident of Kazakhstan, and was rumored to be a secret Roman Catholic.

Among other minutae I noticed was a resentment of the Orthodox about the western perception of the color black, which to us generally means death, or something foreboding, while to the eastern Europeans, the color black is the color of God; white is the color of mourning, and red is the color of evil.

Unlike in the Roman Catholic Church, where one has to be dead before one can be a saint, the Orthodox informally canonize (they have no formal procedure) anyone they choose; I saw many icons of George Bush (the first George Bush) in some churches and for sale when there, George Bush and not Ronald Reagan being associated in the popular mind as the one who crumbled the Evil Empire.

Really.  I saw that about six times, and there were even hundreds of candles, or tapers, alit in front of George Bush.

Orthodox Churches have no pews; the audience has to stand the whole time, and services can last three or four hours.  This is ameliorated by that one can come-and-go; one doesn't have to stay the whole time.  There are altars, but the priests move around the whole place, instead of just remaining near the altars; sometimes they even lead the people outdoors.

The services are circa 99% music, 1% spoken.  The Orthodox believe musical instruments are an insult against God, Who created the human voice, and so the music is wholly human, no instruments.

After the collapse of the Soviet Union, one of the first "jobs" Gallup had there was to measure the religious sentiments of the people; to no one's surprise, after 75 years of ruthless violent bloody suppression, the percentage of both believers and actually-practicing believers was much higher than it had been in 1917.

Orthodoxy has generally always been a religion of "old women;" the socialists when scorning it embellished that reputation, but actually it has generally always been that way, for a thousand years.....and yet flourished and prospered, instead of dying out.

I'll bet things like this drive the malicious cartoon character over on Skins's island nuts.

Despite that the Orthodox are based upon Roman Catholicism, I have no idea, no idea at all, about their practices regarding the Sacraments' baptism, confession, communion, whatnot.  While I was there, such things seemed absent, but I have a sense they were actually there, but invisible to my western eyes.

Ukraine was where I noticed the greatest disparity between east and west.  The eastern two-thirds of Ukraine (a country the size of Texas, or of France) is Orthodox; the western third is Roman Catholic.

Western Ukraine was a mirror-opposite of the rest of the country; the old women and the fatalism of the Orthodox, as compared with the masculinity and vigorous vitality of the Roman Catholics--a women's religion on the larger side, a man's religion on the other side.  The congregations in Orthodox churches tended to be mostly older women, while the congregations in Roman Catholic churches tended to be mostly young men.

It was all very interesting, fascinating.

The time I was in Ukraine, incidentally, just after the collapse of the empire, St. Alexander's Roman Catholic Church in Kiev was the meeting-place for westerners.  There were damned few westerners in Ukraine in the early and mid-1990s, and no places for them to go, unless one includes the fleshpots, where one was more likely to be robbed or injured.  I met all sorts of westerners there, but most were Italian or South American diplomats.

 
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Offline DixieBelle

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Re: subtle difference
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2008, 09:54:36 AM »
Thanks for the info Frank. I have always wondered about this subject but never delved into it. It was just one more thing on my list of "things I want to learn about". You always make it an interesting read when you explain something.
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