Author Topic: The Crisis in American Christendom  (Read 21897 times)

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Offline Thor

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Re: The Crisis in American Christendom
« Reply #75 on: March 29, 2010, 01:14:24 PM »
ardent; you need to bear in mind that we are discussing reality within the different Churches, NOT scripture. The Church (pick one) is in a mode of self-preservation. There have been MANY Churches that I've attended and ALL of them seem to be focused on the monetary aspect of how much a person ca/ will give vs the scriptures. The only Church I've ever attended that didn't was the ones on the Navy bases. Heck, all one needs to do is look at the cover ups from within the Catholic Church. Then, the Episcopal church openly allows gays to preach. (WTF??) If they were truly concerned with the scriptures, this stuff wouldn't be happening.
"The state must declare the child to be the most precious treasure of the people. As long as the government is perceived as working for the benefit of the children, the people will happily endure almost any curtailment of liberty and almost any deprivation."- IBID

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Offline Doc

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Re: The Crisis in American Christendom
« Reply #76 on: March 29, 2010, 01:29:11 PM »
Well, I had looked forward to inacting with all of you on this topic, but I can't keep the text I am typing on the screen long enough to see what I am typing.  

So, as a last post, I will say to Doc, I only took exception with the fact that you stated that the "health of the church" was the Church's primary mission.  My reply was to show that Matthew 28 put the saving of the lost through the Gospel message as the primary mission of the church with disciping the saved as a close second.  No need to get snippy just because I disagreed with you point of view.

Now I say so long for the above mentioned reason.

Sorry if I left you with the impression that I was "snippy" with you.......it had nothing to do with what you posted, only that due to a vision problem, it required a lot of time for me to edit your comments so that I could respond to them.....further complicated by the fact that there were several members posting comments and questions at the time, and I was typing as fast as I could......

I'm sure that you didn't select the red font intentionally to create problems......

By the way.....thank you for adopting the forum default font and type color......it's a big help

Now to your reference to Mark 28......

Referring to my OP......I'm already "saved".....that happened a long time ago, so, at least for me, I don't need a "church" for that, my personal acceptance of Christ as my Savior accomplished that, and from that point, the relationship that I have with him is "personal", and not "institutional".

You mentioned that you are/were a Baptist pastor, therefore, you should see the absolute validity of my position.  Now, regarding "deciping" the saved.......here is where my experiences have led me to the conclusion that the "church" has departed from Christ's mission for them.  Again from my opening remarks, when a church finds liberal or conservative politics, "political correctness", or a "social agenda" as outwardly demonstrated to a new couple visiting the church for purposes of considering joining the fellowship, their ecumenical priority......then I have no choice but assume that these fellowships are drifting far afield from the mission, and the Gospel.

You are probably correct that churches exist out there that have held fast to the teachings of Christ........I just have not found one yet......hence my comments, and my quest.......

And regardless of how you might personally feel about my position, you simply cannot deny the fact that many mainstream denominations (The Disciples of Christ being my primary example), followed by the United Methodists, the American Anglican (Epispical) Congregation, At least one Lutheran Synod, as well as an number of other mainstream denominations, have accepted ecumenical political policy positions that fly in the face of Christ's message.....as a matter of priorities......they may go through the motions, but their focus is on "political correctness", and "inclusion" rather than the Gospel.......mainly because preaching the unadulterated Gospel will make some people unhappy, and feel "excluded".......

Be that as it may......these are my personal (and therefore anecdotal) experiences........I posted them here for discussion, and as a warning to the faithful that all may not be as it seems, in American Christendom.

doc
« Last Edit: March 29, 2010, 01:34:09 PM by TVDOC »

Offline vesta111

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Re: The Crisis in American Christendom
« Reply #77 on: March 29, 2010, 03:22:56 PM »
Sorry if I left you with the impression that I was "snippy" with you.......it had nothing to do with what you posted, only that due to a vision problem, it required a lot of time for me to edit your comments so that I could respond to them.....further complicated by the fact that there were several members posting comments and questions at the time, and I was typing as fast as I could......

I'm sure that you didn't select the red font intentionally to create problems......

By the way.....thank you for adopting the forum default font and type color......it's a big help

Now to your reference to Mark 28......

Referring to my OP......I'm already "saved".....that happened a long time ago, so, at least for me, I don't need a "church" for that, my personal acceptance of Christ as my Savior accomplished that, and from that point, the relationship that I have with him is "personal", and not "institutional".

You mentioned that you are/were a Baptist pastor, therefore, you should see the absolute validity of my position.  Now, regarding "deciping" the saved.......here is where my experiences have led me to the conclusion that the "church" has departed from Christ's mission for them.  Again from my opening remarks, when a church finds liberal or conservative politics, "political correctness", or a "social agenda" as outwardly demonstrated to a new couple visiting the church for purposes of considering joining the fellowship, their ecumenical priority......then I have no choice but assume that these fellowships are drifting far afield from the mission, and the Gospel.

You are probably correct that churches exist out there that have held fast to the teachings of Christ........I just have not found one yet......hence my comments, and my quest.......

And regardless of how you might personally feel about my position, you simply cannot deny the fact that many mainstream denominations (The Disciples of Christ being my primary example), followed by the United Methodists, the American Anglican (Epispical) Congregation, At least one Lutheran Synod, as well as an number of other mainstream denominations, have accepted ecumenical political policy positions that fly in the face of Christ's message.....as a matter of priorities......they may go through the motions, but their focus is on "political correctness", and "inclusion" rather than the Gospel.......mainly because preaching the unadulterated Gospel will make some people unhappy, and feel "excluded".......

Be that as it may......these are my personal (and therefore anecdotal) experiences........I posted them here for discussion, and as a warning to the faithful that all may not be as it seems, in American Christendom.

doc

Wonderful discussion, lots to be absorbed here.

Christianity to be understood in all the Hats the Church wears has to be studied not from the Bible itself but from historical records.

The Bible is quite the story of of mankinds struggle, strife and survival over 10-20 thousand years.  The Torah is a Testament to humans that protected it and it survived through the years

I wonder what the TRUTH actually means, is there anything but birth and death that is the real truth.?

Christians before the Nicene gathering did not believe Jesus was god, did not know or believe in the Trinity.  To them Jesus was a phropt, only after hundreds of years did the concept that Jesus died for mankind come into the faith.  This was no accident but a smart ploy of the Church at the time.

The Church at that time in need of money passed the idea that man could not get into heaven by good works alone.   Man had to have faith and that meant showing their faith with supporting the church.   This of course raises the question of those never exposed to Christianity that were good people that died but went to Hell because of their ignorance of Jesus.
      A GOD fearing family that spent their lives in service to the town folk were burned at the stake for not having enough money to support the local church---HEATHENS

AHHHH, the history of the evolution of a faith, all the power plays and blood and guts spilled it takes to form a unified faith.

Please don't forget the Tower of Babble, all languages scrambled, so the name of GOD was scrambled also, all monotheistic people had a different name for HIM, be it the Great Spirit to Allah.   

Please play on you guys, the more you argue the stronger MY faith becomes. 

If one wants the truth, one must know the history of the subject.  I can paint my car blue on the right side and red on the left. Two people on opposite sides of the street will tell the truth, what they saw.   Both give you the truth yet the object gets lost in the observation.









Offline Thor

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Re: The Crisis in American Christendom
« Reply #78 on: March 29, 2010, 04:53:43 PM »
Again, Vesta jumps over the ledge. Matthew 28:19 speaks clearly of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. However, if you read this verse carefully, you will see that the Three have just one name. It says, "baptizing them into the name" (not names) "of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit." There are Three with one name. This is the Triune God, the Trinity. The book of Matthew was written LONG before the Bible was "assembled" in Nicea. Granted, the Nicene creed originated around 325 A.D. but believing in the Triune God originated long before.

Doc, if there's one in your area, you may find that the Anglican Church will suit your beliefs. They're an offshoot from the Episcopal Church and that is due to the Episcopal Church accepting women and gays as "priests" (and higher clergical positions) and following the "political Correctness" doctrine vs what the Bible states. I dunno, just a suggestion. Your beliefs seem to parallel mine. One CAN be a Christian and not go to Church.
"The state must declare the child to be the most precious treasure of the people. As long as the government is perceived as working for the benefit of the children, the people will happily endure almost any curtailment of liberty and almost any deprivation."- IBID

I AM your General Ne'er Do Well, Troublemaker & All Around Meanie!!

"Congress has not unlimited powers to provide for the general welfare, but only those specifically enumerated."-Thomas Jefferson

Offline ChuckJ

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Re: The Crisis in American Christendom
« Reply #79 on: March 29, 2010, 05:37:31 PM »
Again, Vesta jumps over the ledge. Matthew 28:19 speaks clearly of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. However, if you read this verse carefully, you will see that the Three have just one name. It says, "baptizing them into the name" (not names) "of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit." There are Three with one name. This is the Triune God, the Trinity. The book of Matthew was written LONG before the Bible was "assembled" in Nicea. Granted, the Nicene creed originated around 325 A.D. but believing in the Triune God originated long before.

Doc, if there's one in your area, you may find that the Anglican Church will suit your beliefs. They're an offshoot from the Episcopal Church and that is due to the Episcopal Church accepting women and gays as "priests" (and higher clergical positions) and following the "political Correctness" doctrine vs what the Bible states. I dunno, just a suggestion. Your beliefs seem to parallel mine. One CAN be a Christian and not go to Church.

I agree with the bolded. If I remember correctly the creed basically clarified and reaffirmed the belief that the church already held.

“Don’t vote for the person who tells you you deserve something. Just don’t do it if it’s something other than life, liberty, or the pursuit of possible happiness. If everyone is telling you you deserve something, vote for the one who is promising you the least. Be suspicious of the man or woman who tell you deserve everything. Because you don’t.” ---Mike Rowe