Author Topic: The Crisis in American Christendom  (Read 21012 times)

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Offline Chris_

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Re: The Crisis in American Christendom
« Reply #50 on: March 27, 2010, 03:04:53 PM »
Why don't you just come out and say, "Shut up and go away?"  I'm sorry if I've irritated you.  Well, no, actually I'm not.  You wouldn't be so upset if you didn't understand my point.  You are completely free to go seek whatever you want, wherever you want.  It's not like I could force you not to...even if I ever would.  You just will never get around the fact that studying things that are not true won't gain you anything true.


As I've said ad nauseum.....we are not going to agree on YOUR version of "truth".....I have no objection to your participation so long as it is not disruptive, and continuing to restate the same axiom over and over is disruptive......

The statement "this or that is not truth".....is not a valid argument.....its your "opinion"....

If you feel that you can add to the conversation, you are welcome, just don't expect not to have a parochial position challenged.....and challenged vehemently......with that understanding, carry on.....

doc
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Offline Chris_

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Re: The Crisis in American Christendom
« Reply #51 on: March 27, 2010, 03:14:51 PM »
Yeah, cause ONLY God can talk to your heart, right?  Satan couldn't ever fool someone.  Wishful thinking couldn't ever make someone believe something incorrect, right?  Listen, if "God" ever tells you to go do a Scott Roeder, do a little research before you believe that "feeling." 

Let's tone it down a bit....Deb's comments were sincere, wellmeaning, and forthright.......they did not warrant that type of retort......

doc
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Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

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Re: The Crisis in American Christendom
« Reply #52 on: March 27, 2010, 03:22:37 PM »
Yeah, cause ONLY God can talk to your heart, right?  Satan couldn't ever fool someone.  Wishful thinking couldn't ever make someone believe something incorrect, right?  Listen, if "God" ever tells you to go do a Scott Roeder, do a little research before you believe that "feeling."  
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Offline rich_t

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Re: The Crisis in American Christendom
« Reply #53 on: March 27, 2010, 05:31:06 PM »
Quote
I'm a Gnostic Christian because I believe, as the ancient Gnostic's believed, that ones relationship with God (and Christ) is vested in ones personal relationship with Him, and not through the conduit of an organized church  I firmly believe that one can maintain a state of "grace" and redemption, relying only on ones personal faith, prayer, and communion with the roots of Christ's teachings.......without a "church"......


I'm right there with you.  I didn't even know it had a "name" until I read your OP.
"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of 'liberalism,' they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." --Norman Thomas, 1944

Offline rich_t

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Re: The Crisis in American Christendom
« Reply #54 on: March 27, 2010, 05:35:22 PM »
Yeah, cause ONLY God can talk to your heart, right?  Satan couldn't ever fool someone.  Wishful thinking couldn't ever make someone believe something incorrect, right?  Listen, if "God" ever tells you to go do a Scott Roeder, do a little research before you believe that "feeling."  

Did God tell you to post in a condescending manner here or did Satan?  Or perhaps you decided on your own free will do do so?

Intentional or not, you have been posting in a very condescending manner IMO.
"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of 'liberalism,' they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." --Norman Thomas, 1944

Offline MrsSmith

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Re: The Crisis in American Christendom
« Reply #55 on: March 27, 2010, 05:38:01 PM »
Let's tone it down a bit....Deb's comments were sincere, wellmeaning, and forthright.......they did not warrant that type of retort......

doc
Perhaps not.  However, the fact remains that some formerly Christian groups are turning into cults because they have abandoned the study of that truth that you find so elusive.  I would sincerely hope that deb realizes that truth in my reply to her.  Despite your disdain for the difference between true and untrue...and your insistence that "opinion" is the main difference...there are absolute truths in this world, in God, in God's Word...and He has made it possible for us to find those absolute truths with no need to question which "opinion" is correct.  Unless you happen to have a direct line to that truth, the easiest way to be misled is to read stuff that has some truth and lots of half- or un-truth.  I'm sorry that this simple fact is so opposed to your opinions.
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Offline MrsSmith

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Re: The Crisis in American Christendom
« Reply #56 on: March 27, 2010, 05:38:58 PM »
Did God tell you to post in a condescending manner here or did Satan?  Or perhaps you decided on your own free will do do so?

Intentional or not, you have been posting in a very condescending manner IMO.
Thankfully, I am the only poster on CC that will become condescending when arguing with someone that refuses to see a very simple fact.   ::)
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Offline rich_t

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Re: The Crisis in American Christendom
« Reply #57 on: March 27, 2010, 05:43:20 PM »
Thankfully, I am the only poster on CC that will become condescending when arguing with someone that refuses to see a very simple fact.   ::)

What very simple fact would that be?
"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of 'liberalism,' they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." --Norman Thomas, 1944

Offline MrsSmith

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Re: The Crisis in American Christendom
« Reply #58 on: March 27, 2010, 05:48:48 PM »
What very simple fact would that be?
That it is difficult, if not impossible, to increase knowledge by studying material that is not true...unless you happen to know the subject so well that you can immediately spot all the untrue material.
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Offline rich_t

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Re: The Crisis in American Christendom
« Reply #59 on: March 27, 2010, 05:51:11 PM »

A wise man once said:...."arguing with a zealot is a fool's errand......"

doc

I really need to start "listening" to such sage advice.
"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of 'liberalism,' they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." --Norman Thomas, 1944

Offline rich_t

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Re: The Crisis in American Christendom
« Reply #60 on: March 27, 2010, 05:58:04 PM »
That it is difficult, if not impossible, to increase knowledge by studying material that is not true...unless you happen to know the subject so well that you can immediately spot all the untrue material.

On that we might agree.  But the hard part comes with descerning true from not true.

Do you consider yourself to be one that happens to know the subject so well that you can immediately spot all the untrue material?


"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of 'liberalism,' they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." --Norman Thomas, 1944

Offline Doc

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Re: The Crisis in American Christendom
« Reply #61 on: March 27, 2010, 06:35:29 PM »
What very simple fact would that be?

When you get a chance, Rich, you might want to review the entire thread......in it you will find out that Mrs Smith not only speaks to God directly, and receives her answers from Him directly (we haven't yet heard if there is a "burning bush" involved) but He has appointed her the sole arbiter of His truth on earth.......only she and her congregation are the possessors of the ultimate secrets of Christianity, and its instructions for us.....the lowly uneducated that are too blind, and stupid to recognize the awesome strength of her knowledge........

Quote
Thankfully, I am the only poster on CC that will become condescending when arguing with someone that refuses to see a very simple fact.  

See......I can be condescending as hell too....... :-)

doc

On Edit:  A quote comes to mind......"Pride goeth before the fall......"
« Last Edit: March 27, 2010, 06:54:28 PM by TVDOC »

Offline rich_t

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Re: The Crisis in American Christendom
« Reply #62 on: March 27, 2010, 06:39:09 PM »
When you get a chance, Rich, you might want to review the entire thread......in it you will find out that Mrs Smith not only speaks to God directly, and receives her answers from Him directly (we haven't yet heard if there is a "burning bush" involved) but He has appointed her the sole arbiter of His truth on earth.......only she and her congregation are the possessors of the ultimate secrets of Christianity, and its instructions for us.....the lowly uneducated that are too blind, and stupid to recognize the awesome strength of her knowledge........

See......I can be condescending as hell too....... :-)

doc

DOC, I read the entire thread before I chimed in.  That is why I posted about her posting in such a conscending manner.

It is also why I posted about listening to sage advice about arguing with a zealot.

 :popcorn:
"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of 'liberalism,' they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." --Norman Thomas, 1944

Offline Chris_

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Re: The Crisis in American Christendom
« Reply #63 on: March 27, 2010, 06:42:57 PM »
DOC, I read the entire thread before I chimed in.  That is why I posted about her posting in such a conscending manner.

It is also why I posted about listening to sage advice about arguing with a zealot.

 :popcorn:

Roger that.....

doc
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Offline ardentconservative

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Re: The Crisis in American Christendom
« Reply #64 on: March 27, 2010, 09:51:56 PM »
TVDOC, I have been a member of Conservative Cave for several years but haven't posted much.  But I read you post with intrest, and though I agree that there is a crisis in Christiandom, there were some things that you said that I didn't understand what you meant. So being a Southern Baptist Conservative Pastor for 33 years I would like to converse with you on some of the points that you made.  First

[I firmly believe that one can maintain a state of "grace" and redemption, relying only on ones personal faith, prayer, and communion with the roots of Christ's teachings.......without a "church"......]

I am not sure what you mean by the phrase communion with the roots of Christ's teachings.  If you mean by that that salvation is based upon our acceptance of the person and work of Jesus Christ through repentant faith, and the person of Christ being that is is God and man in one person; and that the work of Christ is that he died on the cross for our sins, then I agree.  The Bible is clear that faith is in a person, the person of Christ; and the salvation comes through is death on the cross.

[never losing sight of its primary mission, which is the spiritual health of its members......]


I must take exception with this point.  According to Matthew 28:19-20 the primary mission of the Chruch is the spreading of the Gospel(v.19).  But the spiritual health of the Chruch is a vital mission of the Chruch because after Jesus said to baptist them he said  to teach them to observe all things.  So I say the primary mission of the church is to first get people saved, the disciple them.   

[.......services became little different than the Saturday night dinners at the country club after a round of golf.......they were "social" and not "spiritual".]

Here I wonder if there is not a dichotomy that many people make between the secular and the spritual.  that is that ones spiritual life is sperate and distinct from one's social/secular life.  I believe that to be a false dichotomy.  I believe that in the Bible that we have a spiritual responsiblty to save the lost and disciple the save; and that we have a secular/social responsibility to "redeem the time" in the society in which we live.  The Bible teaches that Christians have a social/secular responsibiliy that we redeem the time by being involved in secular activities[that incluces politics] that can impact our society for good.  One of the reasons that our nation is in the mess it is in is that Christians have not been involved in the political arena so that they bring the influence of their Christian convictions into the political arena so as to be able to have the effect of the changes that Christian values bring.

I would type more but every time I type something it hides below the Post reply box and I have to keep scrolling down to see what I have typed.  So I will simply stop with this.

Ok, Doc, what you said in in brackets.  My statememts are in black without brackets.

Offline ardentconservative

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Re: The Crisis in American Christendom
« Reply #65 on: March 27, 2010, 09:55:20 PM »

Offline ardentconservative

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Re: The Crisis in American Christendom
« Reply #66 on: March 27, 2010, 09:58:45 PM »
Question?  Can anyone tell me why, when I type a response in the "Post reply" box and I fill the box up any other text that I type hides below the bottom of the "Post reply" box and to see what I have typed I have to scroll down.

Then when I scroll down the next key that I use the text again goes below the bottom of the "Post reply" box and I can't see what I am typing.

It is very hard to correct typing mistakes when you can't see what you are typing.  Thanks.

Offline thundley4

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Re: The Crisis in American Christendom
« Reply #67 on: March 27, 2010, 10:03:22 PM »
Question?  Can anyone tell me why, when I type a response in the "Post reply" box and I fill the box up any other text that I type hides below the bottom of the "Post reply" box and to see what I have typed I have to scroll down.

Then when I scroll down the next key that I use the text again goes below the bottom of the "Post reply" box and I can't see what I am typing.

It is very hard to correct typing mistakes when you can't see what you are typing.  Thanks.

Keep your cursor in the reply box area, that will allow you to scroll there. Move outside the reply area, and it scrolls the whole page.

Offline MrsSmith

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Re: The Crisis in American Christendom
« Reply #68 on: March 27, 2010, 10:32:51 PM »
Question?  Can anyone tell me why, when I type a response in the "Post reply" box and I fill the box up any other text that I type hides below the bottom of the "Post reply" box and to see what I have typed I have to scroll down.

Then when I scroll down the next key that I use the text again goes below the bottom of the "Post reply" box and I can't see what I am typing.

It is very hard to correct typing mistakes when you can't see what you are typing.  Thanks.
I have that problem on our other PC, only on this board.  It changed when we upgraded Explorer.  It doesn't happen with Firefox.
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Offline MrsSmith

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Re: The Crisis in American Christendom
« Reply #69 on: March 27, 2010, 10:37:32 PM »
When you get a chance, Rich, you might want to review the entire thread......in it you will find out that Mrs Smith not only speaks to God directly, and receives her answers from Him directly (we haven't yet heard if there is a "burning bush" involved) but He has appointed her the sole arbiter of His truth on earth.......only she and her congregation are the possessors of the ultimate secrets of Christianity, and its instructions for us.....the lowly uneducated that are too blind, and stupid to recognize the awesome strength of her knowledge........

See......I can be condescending as hell too....... :-)

doc

On Edit:  A quote comes to mind......"Pride goeth before the fall......"
Actually, I never said that any of it was my opinion, my truth, or my anything else...let alone a God-given revelation to my congregation.  At most, I narrowed it down to conservative Christianity...that portion of the believers that study scripture, language, and culture to derive the most complete picture of God's Word. I believe that latest figure for that is somewhere in the millions.  It just does not include the portion of seekers that seek within untrue material for a path to God.

 Condescension works best when it remains within truthful guidelines...just as knowledge.  Facts are just far better foundations for anything.   :-)
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Offline debk

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Re: The Crisis in American Christendom
« Reply #70 on: March 28, 2010, 08:53:35 AM »
Yeah, cause ONLY God can talk to your heart, right?  Satan couldn't ever fool someone.  Wishful thinking couldn't ever make someone believe something incorrect, right?  Listen, if "God" ever tells you to go do a Scott Roeder, do a little research before you believe that "feeling."  

OUCH!!!

You know....I just walked out of Mass an hour ago and the only response that comes to my mind reading this comment is...

What an incredibly bitchy thing to say to me....or anyone for that matter.

And you call yourself a Christian?
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Offline Doc

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Re: The Crisis in American Christendom
« Reply #71 on: March 28, 2010, 11:26:24 AM »
TVDOC, I have been a member of Conservative Cave for several years but haven't posted much.  But I read you post with intrest, and though I agree that there is a crisis in Christiandom, there were some things that you said that I didn't understand what you meant. So being a Southern Baptist Conservative Pastor for 33 years I would like to converse with you on some of the points that you made.  First

<snip>


Ardentconservative.......since you posted your initial remarks, then disappeared......I'll direct your attention to the last post at the bottom of page 2 of this thread......as an aside, I had to copy your entire post into "notepad", remove the flakey red font, correct the quotes, and edit it so that I could read it.....took me thirty minutes......had you stuck around to actually "participate" you'd have had your answer.....just say'n :-)

However, if you will review that last post on page 2 you will find that I answered each of your questions......

doc
« Last Edit: March 28, 2010, 11:56:08 AM by TVDOC »

Offline Chris_

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Re: The Crisis in American Christendom
« Reply #72 on: March 28, 2010, 11:53:03 AM »
Condescension works best when it remains within truthful guidelines...just as knowledge.  Facts are just far better foundations for anything.   :-)

Now you are the world's highest authority on "condecention".......

Madam.....I'd prefer that you refrain from lecturing me on either knowledge.....or language......since I believe that my demonstrated credentials are vastly superior to yours in either area.......you wanted facts, ponder that one for a while....

If you wish to continue a discussion of the topic, please continue.....you've been warned several times, and I'm still "really pissed" about your unnecessarily snide remark to "debk" (I believe that you owe her a very public apology) ....so you are skating on very thin ice with me.....either stick to the topic, without disrupting the discussion, or you are out of here....capiche?

I'm the moderator in this forum, so you can attack me with some impunity, it goes with the job, so long as you remain on topic, and within the forum rules.....but tacitly attacking another member will get you shitcanned in a heartbeat if you do it again......

Do you completely understand this?   Only a "yes or no" is required....



doc
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Offline Thor

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Re: The Crisis in American Christendom
« Reply #73 on: March 28, 2010, 03:07:39 PM »
A word or warning........... we Admins have the final authority on our membership. That said, our moderators are selected because we trust them to do a good job and support the forum. Arguing with our moderators and ignoring their advice is tantamount to disrespecting the Forum, the Administrators and the moderators. Such actions can and have gotten people banned.

To put it succinctly, Mrs. Smith, while some people enjoy your participation here, you are disrupting this forum. I will NOT tolerate your actions much longer. You have been warned several times and consider this your FINAL warning. Any further disruption of this forum (or any other) will result in your termination. Do I make myself clear?????
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Offline ardentconservative

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Re: The Crisis in American Christendom
« Reply #74 on: March 29, 2010, 12:51:33 PM »
Well, I had looked forward to inacting with all of you on this topic, but I can't keep the text I am typing on the screen long enough to see what I am typing. 

So, as a last post, I will say to Doc, I only took exception with the fact that you stated that the "health of the church" was the chruch's primary mission.  My reply was to show that Matthew 28 put the saving of the lost through the Gospel message as the primary mission of the church with disciping the saved as a close second.  No need to get snippy just becasue I disagreed with you point of view.

Now I say so long for the above mentioned reason.