Author Topic: Translation Errors in Scripture  (Read 21274 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 21033
  • Reputation: +1953/-255
  • Voted Rookie-of-the-Year, 3 years running
Re: Translation Errors in Scripture
« Reply #50 on: March 27, 2010, 10:46:43 AM »
I know what you're telling me, but I also know what is copy and pasted reference vs. "trust me."

Perhaps you'll be so kind as to tell us what the original Greek word for Sabbath is when we read it in the English translations.
According to the Bible, "know" means "yes."

Offline MrsSmith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5977
  • Reputation: +465/-54
Re: Translation Errors in Scripture
« Reply #51 on: March 27, 2010, 10:49:26 AM »
You're evidently unaware of what I'm aware of.
Only going by the evidence available.  You certainly talk as though you have no clue that this topic is known, studied, and taught in churches.  
Quote
He was crucified on Passover, resurrected on First Fruits and ascended on Shavuots.

Shavuot was the 50th day after the weekly Sabbath following Passover; seven weeks, plus one day. Pentecost, translated, is "50th day." The Book of Acts even notes people were in Jerusalem to mark that festival.

Each major event of the Passion resides within the Jewish liturgical calendar. Is this mere coincidence or is it part and parcel of the narrative?

Is it merely a crass irony that the pillar of flame that issued the 10 Commandments 50 days after the 1st Passover appeared as a tongue of flame over the congregants in Jerusalem (who were markedly devoid of goyim at the time)?


Why would you go on like this if you knew the subject was known & studied??
.
.


Antifa - the only fascists in America today.

Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 21033
  • Reputation: +1953/-255
  • Voted Rookie-of-the-Year, 3 years running
Re: Translation Errors in Scripture
« Reply #52 on: March 27, 2010, 11:01:29 AM »
Only going by the evidence available.  You certainly talk as though you have no clue that this topic is known, studied, and taught in churches.  

Why would you go on like this if you knew the subject was known & studied??
Ma'am, they're called rhetorical questions.
According to the Bible, "know" means "yes."

Offline USA4ME

  • Evil Capitalist
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12270
  • Reputation: +1434/-67
Re: Translation Errors in Scripture
« Reply #53 on: March 27, 2010, 11:31:47 AM »
I know what you're telling me, but I also know what is copy and pasted reference vs. "trust me."

I also looked at commentaries on the passage.  Specifically as I write this, I'm reading The PulPit Commentary, and the preface goes into detail of how there were numerous Greek scholars used to examine what was written to ensure it was an accurate refection.  If "upon the first day of the week" was not an accurate reflection of the Greek, I believe the writers would have discussed it in the commentary.  As it stands, it's never even called into question.  Now unless this commentary and the other commentaries are conspiring to deceive (of which, I am confident, Greek scholars everywhere would be pointing at the deceit, which they aren't), I'm going to have to believe that there is no translation error which would render "upon the first day of the week" as anything other than an accurate translation.

.
Because third world peasant labor is a good thing.


Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 21033
  • Reputation: +1953/-255
  • Voted Rookie-of-the-Year, 3 years running
Re: Translation Errors in Scripture
« Reply #54 on: March 27, 2010, 11:50:25 AM »
I also looked at commentaries on the passage...

I repeat:

Perhaps you'll be so kind as to tell us what the original Greek word for Sabbath is when we read it in the English translations.
According to the Bible, "know" means "yes."

Offline USA4ME

  • Evil Capitalist
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12270
  • Reputation: +1434/-67
Re: Translation Errors in Scripture
« Reply #55 on: March 27, 2010, 12:15:11 PM »
I repeat:

Perhaps you'll be so kind as to tell us what the original Greek word for Sabbath is when we read it in the English translations.

Already done that.

According to Strong's, the words there are "mia sabboton,"

I've never question the words used.  However, I am not a Greek scholar and I'm in no position to argue with Greek scholars who have determined that "upon the first day of the week" is an accurate translation.  If you wish to do so, be my guest.  I'm satisfied the process correctly vetted the Greek to determine the translation is accurate, otherwise the commentaries would have documented the error.

.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2010, 12:27:28 PM by USA4ME »
Because third world peasant labor is a good thing.


Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 21033
  • Reputation: +1953/-255
  • Voted Rookie-of-the-Year, 3 years running
Re: Translation Errors in Scripture
« Reply #56 on: March 27, 2010, 12:31:45 PM »
So what you're saying is: the Greek word for Sabbath--the last day of the Hebrew week--is the exact same word for "the first day of the week."

No wonder modern theology is in such shambles: tradition trumps plain reading.

I am not a Greek scholar and I'm in no position to argue with Greek scholars who have determined that "upon the first day of the week" is an accurate translation.  If you wish to do so, be my guest.  I'm satisfied the process correctly vetted the Greek to determine the translation is accurate, otherwise the commentaries would have documented the error.

And consensus says humans cause global warming.
According to the Bible, "know" means "yes."

Offline USA4ME

  • Evil Capitalist
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12270
  • Reputation: +1434/-67
Re: Translation Errors in Scripture
« Reply #57 on: March 27, 2010, 12:47:57 PM »
If there is a translation error from the Greek to the words “upon the first day of the week,” until someone can explain why Greek scholars didn’t insist that the writers of the commentaries address this error in their commentary, and some evidence is provided from those Greek scholars who reviewed these commentaries that they did insist but were ignored, there’s no reason to go any further.  At this point, all indications are that Greek scholars agree the translation is accurate.

I highly doubt Greek scholars would stay silent on something so easily proven, and no doubt the accuracy of the commentaries themselves would be widely called into question.  That has not happened.

.
Because third world peasant labor is a good thing.


Offline Chris_

  • Little Lebowski Urban Achiever
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 46845
  • Reputation: +2028/-266
Re: Translation Errors in Scripture
« Reply #58 on: March 27, 2010, 12:53:20 PM »
Only going by the evidence available.  You certainly talk as though you have no clue that this topic is known, studied, and taught in churches.  

Why would you go on like this if you knew the subject was known & studied??

The problem that we have here, Mrs Smith, is the same one that pops up whenever you involve yourself in an academic discussion of Scripture, and scriptural events......the sources that you cite are purely parochial, and are limited to YOUR  church, pastor, and YOUR denominations interpretation of events and texts.  You say above that you are going on the "evidence available", when your statement should read......."the evidence available that I agree with, or that my pastor and congregation agrees with".

MSB approaches the discussion from an academic perspective, and presents well researched materials that are matters of common belief and understanding to religious scholars, and have stood the test of time over centuries of study and challenge.......because YOUR church, and its associated documents, tracts, and patriarchs don't agree with that is irrelevant.

Based on what I've seen here in this thread alone suggests to me that MSB's understanding of Hebrew history and the correct interpretation of Jewish law dwarfs any protestant preacher that I have ever discussed the topic with.....you would be better served to listen and learn, rather than challenging his every position with some half-baked source that your particular branch of Christianity clings to to make themselves feel good.......

As I have mentioned to you in another similar discussion, when I need to educate myself on a point of OT history, or Jewish Law, I sit down and talk to a Rabbi......they wrote it, live by it, and they are the experts.......most protestant ministers that I have had the misfortune to discuss the subject with simply don't know what they are talking about, regarding the OT.......and exhibit an alarming tendency to twist the OT Scriptures into pretzels to support some of their pet beliefs in the New Testament.......that isn't scholarship......that is parochialism.....

If you wish to start your own thread to discuss your beliefs, and the specific understandings of your congregation, please feel free to do so, and I will treat any poster that jumps in to distort your presentation in the same manner that I'm doing here.......have your discussion, and we will read it and make our own choices if it has merit or not, without resorting to disputing your every word.......that is fair......

I started this thread to discuss the broad issue of translation inconsistancies in the KJV specifically, and English translations of our Canon in general........because you don't like the fact that they exist, or don't agree with the conclusions, does not matter.......its your opinion......and your opinion bears no more weight than anyone else's in the discussion.......just because you imply that "Righteousness and Divine Intervention" are on your side does not make it so......it just makes you appear to be a fundamentalist bully......

Please keep the discussion on topic for the thread.

doc

If you want to worship an orange pile of garbage with a reckless disregard for everything, get on down to Arbys & try our loaded curly fries.

Offline Chris_

  • Little Lebowski Urban Achiever
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 46845
  • Reputation: +2028/-266
Re: Translation Errors in Scripture
« Reply #59 on: March 27, 2010, 01:10:26 PM »
I've never question the words used.  However, I am not a Greek scholar and I'm in no position to argue with Greek scholars who have determined that "upon the first day of the week" is an accurate translation.  If you wish to do so, be my guest.  I'm satisfied the process correctly vetted the Greek to determine the translation is accurate, otherwise the commentaries would have documented the error.

.

That is fine, if you are satisfied.......however, MSB makes the point with an actual translation source that the "Sabbath" has changed from the Mosaic Covenant to the New one, without apparent reason....

If Christians choose to go along with that, no one cares......it is simply a point of error in Christian understanding of Jewish law.....and there are many such misunderstandings in Christianity today......do they matter to our basic faith?   No, they do not.......so long as the Sabbath is observed, I suspect that God will let us slide if we didn't figure out the correct day to celebrate it on.......

As I discussed in another thread.....the "process" by which we received the Canon was a political one......even the Vatican, who supervised it admits that.......so misunderstandings and errors will be contained therein....so long as they do not intentionally distort the overall message, it is of little consequence.

One would only need to study the KJV (translated 700 years ago) compared to a modern translation to see literally hundreds of errors and misinterpretations that have evolved over that period.

My overriding objective here is to establish that our Scriptural study should be a cautious one.....armed with the understanding that although inspired by God, the texts are interpreted by "man" and as we are fallible, errors are inevitable.......

doc
If you want to worship an orange pile of garbage with a reckless disregard for everything, get on down to Arbys & try our loaded curly fries.

Offline USA4ME

  • Evil Capitalist
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12270
  • Reputation: +1434/-67
Re: Translation Errors in Scripture
« Reply #60 on: March 27, 2010, 01:20:02 PM »
That is fine, if you are satisfied.......

I appreciate your words.

I have concluded, though my own study and examination of various forms, the scriptures as we have them are an accurate reflection and are all inspired by God.  I enjoy discussing various scriptures and topics, but I'm only willing to do so based upon the scriptures being accurate.  I know you've expressed you don't view them that way, but just understand when I'm discussing things with you or anyone else, it will be from the position of the scriptures as being the inspired Word of God without error.  In fact, I would not be interested in discussing them from any other viewpoint, nor am I interested in being attacked or questioned for holding that view.  I don't believe that's too much to ask.  I hope you and others can respect that, as I will certainly, and have been to this point I believe, doing to you.  Thanks.

.
Because third world peasant labor is a good thing.


Offline Doc

  • General Malcontent and
  • Moderator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 830
  • Reputation: +2/-3
  • Sic transit gloria mundi
Re: Translation Errors in Scripture
« Reply #61 on: March 27, 2010, 01:35:14 PM »
I appreciate your words.

I have concluded, though my own study and examination of various forms, the scriptures as we have them are an accurate reflection and are all inspired by God.  I enjoy discussing various scriptures and topics, but I'm only willing to do so based upon the scriptures being accurate.  I know you've expressed you don't view them that way, but just understand when I'm discussing things with you or anyone else, it will be from the position of the scriptures as being the inspired Word of God without error.  In fact, I would not be interested in discussing them from any other viewpoint, nor am I interested in being attacked or questioned for holding that view.  I don't believe that's too much to ask.  I hope you and others can respect that, as I will certainly, and have been to this point I believe, doing to you.  Thanks.

.

I think that you misunderstood my position......It is not that I consider the Scriptures "inaccurate", I don't.....just that inconsistancies exist and we should be cautious of them.

Someone yesterday (perhaps it was you) used the analogy that Jewish scholars at Yashiva will spend an entire day screaming at each other over the interpretation of a text that has been read and reinterpreted for two thousand years LONGER than the NT, and they are still doing it.....I've seen it myself........

Perhaps my best analogy would refer to MSB's comment about "Global Warming" and the consensus claim that it is "settled science"......yourself and other Christians may firmly believe that the current interpretation of the Canon is "settled", but time and time again, scholarly study has brought new light to the study of scripture, and will likely continue to do so........

It would be sad for we as Christians to just "slam on the brakes" here at this point in time, and say that "the job of learning and interpreting Scripture is now complete" and rest on our laurels.......sad indeed, for the potential exists for us to continue to enrich our understanding.....

We can never tell when another "Dead Sea Scroll" event might occur, and set our understanding on its preverbrial ear......

doc
« Last Edit: March 27, 2010, 01:38:55 PM by TVDOC »

Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 21033
  • Reputation: +1953/-255
  • Voted Rookie-of-the-Year, 3 years running
Re: Translation Errors in Scripture
« Reply #62 on: March 27, 2010, 01:55:53 PM »
If there is a translation error from the Greek to the words “upon the first day of the week,” until someone can explain why Greek scholars didn’t insist that the writers of the commentaries address this error in their commentary, and some evidence is provided from those Greek scholars who reviewed these commentaries that they did insist but were ignored, there’s no reason to go any further.  At this point, all indications are that Greek scholars agree the translation is accurate.

I highly doubt Greek scholars would stay silent on something so easily proven, and no doubt the accuracy of the commentaries themselves would be widely called into question.  That has not happened.

.
You're evading and hiding behind a tautology.

You claim Greek scholars agree and then define a Greek scholar only as those that agree.

The fact remains, and you have yet to address this, that the word for the religiously observed LAST day of the week cannot possibly be the same word as the non-religious FIRST day of the week. It is a linguistic impossibility.

The word is what it is. Either the original Greek is in error or the translators are in error. However, seeing as Sunday worship has been the tradition since Constantine and the church has sad history of antisemitism the fact that the translators would be ignorant of the Festival of Weeks is simple enough: They didn't know because they were never taught. They had to add the word "day" in brackets to the translations because the word does not exist in the original text. Coupled with their ignorance of Shavuot they could not conceive of another formulation. They had to fabricate an entire word.

To remediate:

Pesach was 1 of 7 "high Sabbaths" or Shabat ha Gadol. Regardless of which day of the standard week it fell on it would be considered a Sabbath.

First Fruits, or bikkurim, was the first regular weekly Sabbath following Pesach. It is known as, "The First Day of the Week."

From there the Hebrews would reckon 7 weeks and 1 day in what was known as Hag ha Shavuot, or the Festival of Weeks. The 50th day commemorates the giving of the 10 Generally Good Suggestions to Moses on Mt. Sinai.

Pentecost isn't even a Christian term. It is the Hellenized name for Shavuot.

Your own citation of 1 Cor 16:2 of laying up of stores coincides with the "Counting of the Omer" a Jewish observance where grains and fruits were brought to the temple (yes, Paul instructed his non-Jewish congregants in Hebraic custom...since pagan customs have no place with a Jewish God). Omer, being a Jewish measure...and it occurs on the first SABBATH of the 7 Sabbaths between Pesach and Shavuots.

Yet, you would have me believe all this Judaic correlation--both prophetic and observed and instructed by Paul himself...to a bunch of goyim, no less--is to be cast aside for the pagan day of Sun worshiping.

Show me Greek scholars that take the above facts into account in their renderings and I'll consider whether or not the religious last day of the week can simultaneously mean the non-religious first day of the week.

It would be easier to pass an elephant through the eye of a needle.

I appreciate your words.

I have concluded, though my own study and examination of various forms, the scriptures as we have them are an accurate reflection and are all inspired by God.

And I'm not challenging that.

However, translation clouded by centuries of politics, superstition, neglect and even outright bigotry is very much a possibility. You acknowledged as much when you admitted Pesach had been rendered Easter.

The problem that we have here, Mrs Smith, is ...

doc

Apart from her totally overlooking obviously rhetorical questions she hasn't really offered any offense to me.
According to the Bible, "know" means "yes."

Offline USA4ME

  • Evil Capitalist
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12270
  • Reputation: +1434/-67
Re: Translation Errors in Scripture
« Reply #63 on: March 27, 2010, 02:01:32 PM »
It would be sad for we as Christians to just "slam on the brakes" here at this point in time, and say that "the job of learning and interpreting Scripture is now complete" and rest on our laurels.......sad indeed, for the potential exists for us to continue to enrich our understanding.....

I would agree that studing the scriptures generally leads me to further learning, more notably from studying related scriptures, which does enrich my understanding.  That's one reason why I have benefited from the posts from the member who posts her Bible Study.  I also have some excellent books and reference material I personally use.  However, I do believe that "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works," (2 Tim 3:16-17) and based upon that, no new revelation will be forthcoming.  That's why I wanted to let you know, as mod, that any imput I have in this forum will be from that prespective only.  I do not care to be labeled inappropriately and accused of being dogmatic when I'm simply presenting my views.  If I see someone adressing me in that manner, I will avoid them as to make your life easier.  I have no intention to do it to others, either.

.
Because third world peasant labor is a good thing.


Offline USA4ME

  • Evil Capitalist
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12270
  • Reputation: +1434/-67
Re: Translation Errors in Scripture
« Reply #64 on: March 27, 2010, 02:28:50 PM »
Show me Greek scholars that take the above facts into account in their renderings and I'll consider whether or not the religious last day of the week can simultaneously mean the non-religious first day of the week.

I have no reason to believe they haven't taken that and much more into consideration.  The proof is on you to show they didn't by documenting Greek scholars who are openly disputing them on this matter.  Until then, the Greek scholars are in agreement that "upon the first day of the week" is accurately translated.

If you feel this strongly, I suggest you present your findings to the scholars who were involved and question them.  They would be in a position to explain why they reached the conclusions they did since they were there when they decided.

.
Because third world peasant labor is a good thing.


Offline Chris_

  • Little Lebowski Urban Achiever
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 46845
  • Reputation: +2028/-266
Re: Translation Errors in Scripture
« Reply #65 on: March 27, 2010, 02:43:56 PM »
I would agree that studing the scriptures generally leads me to further learning, more notably from studying related scriptures, which does enrich my understanding.  That's one reason why I have benefited from the posts from the member who posts her Bible Study.  I also have some excellent books and reference material I personally use.  However, I do believe that "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works," (2 Tim 3:16-17) and based upon that, no new revelation will be forthcoming.  That's why I wanted to let you know, as mod, that any imput I have in this forum will be from that prespective only.  I do not care to be labeled inappropriately and accused of being dogmatic when I'm simply presenting my views.  If I see someone adressing me in that manner, I will avoid them as to make your life easier.  I have no intention to do it to others, either.
.

You need not worry about that.....this is the "Fellowship" forum, and all views are respected, so long as they don't become disruptive to the discussion.  You are certainly more entrenched in your position on Scripture than I, but, from my perspective as a scientist, I just naturally view everything with a bit of healthy skepticizm.....as I've mentioned before, its not that I don't believe, I just always am on the lookout for the "next shoe to drop" that will toss my established position into the dustbin of history......In my life, its happened many times.

No one is labeling YOU as anything other than a firm believer.....and that is most certainly welcome.......just don't expect to not have to defend your position on occasion.....

doc
If you want to worship an orange pile of garbage with a reckless disregard for everything, get on down to Arbys & try our loaded curly fries.

Offline rich_t

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7942
  • Reputation: +386/-429
  • TANSTAAFL
Re: Translation Errors in Scripture
« Reply #66 on: March 27, 2010, 02:48:40 PM »
I have found this thread to be very interesting.

But it also reminds me why I seldom participate in threads like this.

I simply don't have the depth of theological knowledge to hold my own, so to speak.
"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of 'liberalism,' they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." --Norman Thomas, 1944

Offline Chris_

  • Little Lebowski Urban Achiever
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 46845
  • Reputation: +2028/-266
Re: Translation Errors in Scripture
« Reply #67 on: March 27, 2010, 02:53:27 PM »
I have found this thread to be very interesting.

But it also reminds me why I seldom participate in threads like this.

I simply don't have the depth of theological knowledge to hold my own, so to speak.

Well....we have several learned members here, you can certainly jump in with a question if you want.....it should be a learning experience for all, and none of us has all of the answers.....

doc
If you want to worship an orange pile of garbage with a reckless disregard for everything, get on down to Arbys & try our loaded curly fries.

Offline rich_t

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7942
  • Reputation: +386/-429
  • TANSTAAFL
Re: Translation Errors in Scripture
« Reply #68 on: March 27, 2010, 02:57:00 PM »
I learn a lot just by reading.  Fortunately this thread didn't gnerate a lot of heated exchanges as I have seen so many religion threads do.

If people get wound up about their politics, it is doubly so about their religion.

"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of 'liberalism,' they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." --Norman Thomas, 1944

Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 21033
  • Reputation: +1953/-255
  • Voted Rookie-of-the-Year, 3 years running
Re: Translation Errors in Scripture
« Reply #69 on: March 27, 2010, 03:07:39 PM »
...The proof is on you to show they didn't by documenting Greek scholars who are openly disputing them on this matter...

The entire section of my post you chose to ignore does that.

By accepted rules of debate you have to impeach my counter-argument.

 
Quote
Until then, the Greek scholars are in agreement that "upon the first day of the week" is accurately translated.
You mean the scholars YOU choose to cite. Two fools agreeing amongst themselves is not an argument in favor of their authority. If you want to assert their authority prove they are correct with sources beyond what they claim.

I used Strong's concordance. If someone disputed that source I could easily find Greek texts and examine whether or not Mr Strong was in agreement about which words appear in the originals and how they were translated into English in the KJV.

That is how scholarship works, sir.

Quote
If you feel this strongly, I suggest you present your findings to the scholars who were involved and question them.  They would be in a position to explain why they reached the conclusions they did since they were there when they decided.
You sound like TNO arguing that until Dr Mann's website admits their fraud they are still a legit source of AGW info.

* I have already demonstrated that your sources contradict themselves turing the last day of the week into the first day of the week

* your sources insert non-existent words, i.e. [day]

* You admitted they corrupted the translation when they substituted Pesach for the blood-slathered orgies to pagan goddesses.

* I have demonstrated that my translation is consistent with the historical and cultural context of the day.

* You can either show me why shabboton does NOT mean sabbath in 59 out of 68 occurrences or

* you can disprove the history and culture

* or you can show me the Greek word that more accurately translates as "sabbath"

Either have the courtesy to address my points directly or refrain from addressing me, period. The bulleted points above are the extent of the remainder of my conversation with you; agree, impeach or ignore if you would like me to say anything beyond them.
According to the Bible, "know" means "yes."

Offline Carl

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19455
  • Reputation: +1395/-97
Re: Translation Errors in Scripture
« Reply #70 on: March 27, 2010, 03:10:33 PM »
You need not worry about that.....this is the "Fellowship" forum, and all views are respected, so long as they don't become disruptive to the discussion.  You are certainly more entrenched in your position on Scripture than I, but, from my perspective as a scientist, I just naturally view everything with a bit of healthy skepticizm.....as I've mentioned before, its not that I don't believe, I just always am on the lookout for the "next shoe to drop" that will toss my established position into the dustbin of history......In my life, its happened many times.

No one is labeling YOU as anything other than a firm believer.....and that is most certainly welcome.......just don't expect to not have to defend your position on occasion.....

doc

I haven`t read any of this since the first page so won`t comment but even though I suspect my positions are more aligned in disagreement on some things I respect your ability to lucidly state your positions and be even handed in all matters.

Offline Chris_

  • Little Lebowski Urban Achiever
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 46845
  • Reputation: +2028/-266
Re: Translation Errors in Scripture
« Reply #71 on: March 27, 2010, 03:24:17 PM »
I haven`t read any of this since the first page so won`t comment but even though I suspect my positions are more aligned in disagreement on some things I respect your ability to lucidly state your positions and be even handed in all matters.

Thank you.....the latter being the unfortunate lot of a moderator......today's problem seems to be remembering which thread I'm in..... :-)

doc
If you want to worship an orange pile of garbage with a reckless disregard for everything, get on down to Arbys & try our loaded curly fries.

Offline rich_t

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7942
  • Reputation: +386/-429
  • TANSTAAFL
Re: Translation Errors in Scripture
« Reply #72 on: March 27, 2010, 03:28:14 PM »
Ok....

Here's a question.  Do some alleged transcription errors change the basic meaning of the message as a whole as it pertains to this topic?
"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of 'liberalism,' they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." --Norman Thomas, 1944

Offline USA4ME

  • Evil Capitalist
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12270
  • Reputation: +1434/-67
Re: Translation Errors in Scripture
« Reply #73 on: March 27, 2010, 03:30:19 PM »
Your argument is not with me.  I'm not a Greek scholar, and I'm certainly not the Greek scholars who translated the Greek words into "upon the first day of the week."  I'm just pointing out that there seemingly aren't any Greek scholars disputing them, which tells me they got it right.  You are not a Greek scholar, so your intrepretation is not backed by credentials.  You need to take this up with the Greek scholars with which you disagree.  I can't answer for them.

I don't know how else to explain it.  But until I see evidence from other Greek scholars that dispute the Greek schlolars which determined "upon the first day of the week" was an accurate translation, I have no choice but to believe it's an accurate translation.  I've made some searches and so far haven't discovered any Greek scholar making the claim that the words were inaccurately translated.  If you do, please provide them.  But so far there isn't a single Greek scholar I've found who is disagreeing with the translation "upon the first day of the week."  To me, that's strong evidence that it's correct.

On a separate issue, I don't debate, but I will discuss.  Debating bores me to tears and I have no interest it in.  If someone wishes to discuss matters, I will gladly do so.  But debate?  Others can do that if they wish, it's just holds no interest for me.

SB, if you run across any Greek scholars disputing the translation of Acts 20:7, please bring it to my attention.  Until then, as noted this conversation has run its course.  Take care.

.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2010, 05:16:35 PM by USA4ME »
Because third world peasant labor is a good thing.


Offline Chris_

  • Little Lebowski Urban Achiever
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 46845
  • Reputation: +2028/-266
Re: Translation Errors in Scripture
« Reply #74 on: March 27, 2010, 03:33:56 PM »
Ok....

Here's a question.  Do some alleged transcription errors change the basic meaning of the message as a whole as it pertains to this topic?

For the most part no, which reverts our thoughts to the Christian belief that the Canon is the inspired Word of God...........however, MSB and USA4ME are discussing what might be a misconception on which actual day of the week the "Sabbath" is supposed to fall, as there is a difference between the interpretation of Jewish Law, and how New Testament Christians view it........

It is an interesting discussion.......

doc
If you want to worship an orange pile of garbage with a reckless disregard for everything, get on down to Arbys & try our loaded curly fries.