Author Topic: Survival Situaton  (Read 42884 times)

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Offline LC EFA

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Re: Survival Situaton
« Reply #50 on: January 04, 2010, 03:06:02 PM »
5 acres for Galts Gulch isn't really enough - but in a "complete society collapse" type survival situation I strongly suspect that 5 acres would grow somewhat.

Anyway..

As for meat crops - Chickens , Goats , Pigs. Maybe some bunnies or guinea pigs.

Fruit crops - Mango, lychee , assorted citrus , guava , and a whole bunch of other crops that grow quite well in the climate I have to work with.

Grain type crops - yams , rice , sweet potato , macadamia nuts , coconuts and some others I can't think of right now.

I still need to figure out a decent producer of usable sugar for fermentation.

Offline LC EFA

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Re: Survival Situaton
« Reply #51 on: January 04, 2010, 03:08:32 PM »
...

Oh, and although beer is tasty, Whiskey is where its at as far as trading purposes go.

It is also remarkably easy to produce once you've had a bit of practice.

The base product can also be used to fuel generators once they're modified to burn it correctly.

Offline Aaron Burr

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Re: Survival Situaton
« Reply #52 on: January 04, 2010, 03:10:05 PM »
What? Aren't you up in Queensland? Isn't that where sugar cane comes from? If Australia doesn't produce cane, sugar beets work pretty well...I guess...even though it fugged' up the recipe for Coke here in the states.

But being where you are, wouldn't you have to work less to survive?

Offline Aaron Burr

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Re: Survival Situaton
« Reply #53 on: January 04, 2010, 03:23:11 PM »
Oh all right. Just use raisins for fermentation. And sugar...plums, maybe a lil' brandy. Just dump it all in a big wooden keg for a few months. It comes out all bubbly and sweet.

Offline LC EFA

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Re: Survival Situaton
« Reply #54 on: January 04, 2010, 03:29:05 PM »
What? Aren't you up in Queensland? Isn't that where sugar cane comes from? If Australia doesn't produce cane, sugar beets work pretty well...I guess...even though it fugged' up the recipe for Coke here in the states.

But being where you are, wouldn't you have to work less to survive?

Sugarcane is a very land and labor intensive crop per ton of refined product. It's also quite bad for the land. There's gotta be a way to get more value from less acreage and toilage from another product.

Ideally yes , I will have to work "less" to survive given the rich variety of crops that can be grown on the north tropical coast here.

I can make a pretty nice sweet wine from several types of fruit, as well as ginger. Coconuts ferment well too. Most of the things that can be fermented that grow around here- I'd fermented and drunk. Before I hit 16.
 



Offline Aaron Burr

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Re: Survival Situaton
« Reply #55 on: January 04, 2010, 03:38:24 PM »
Excellent!

But now we get to the nitty gritty. Sure cane is tough on dirt, so is tobacco. I doubt however, if the demand for those two items would diminish. So how do we keep the survivors well fed and content with lady nicotine?

Indentured Servitude. Yup. Lots of folks won't have the land, resources or skill to make it in "Galts Gulch". And I'm sure some of them will find some way of surviving that will inconvenience the rest of us. So why not use that surplus labor to make your life easier? I'd much rather sit on a horse all day long with a bull whip in my hand than grub in the dirt for my food.


Offline LC EFA

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Re: Survival Situaton
« Reply #56 on: January 04, 2010, 03:48:11 PM »
Excellent!

But now we get to the nitty gritty. Sure cane is tough on dirt, so is tobacco. I doubt however, if the demand for those two items would diminish. So how do we keep the survivors well fed and content with lady nicotine?

Indentured Servitude. Yup. Lots of folks won't have the land, resources or skill to make it in "Galts Gulch". And I'm sure some of them will find some way of surviving that will inconvenience the rest of us. So why not use that surplus labor to make your life easier? I'd much rather sit on a horse all day long with a bull whip in my hand than grub in the dirt for my food.

As a matter of fact - there used to be a big tobacco growing region around here - the government legislated it away. If you're careful you can get packages of land that still have the drying sheds on them.

Indentured servitude I'm not real big on. Slaves need to be fed and watered and looked after to make good labor which costs many valuable resources.

I'm more a fan of the extended family - or an organized unit of like minded and equally contributing individuals.

Externally that translates to a barter system or even establishing a local area currency for use between nearby groups of people. 


Offline Aaron Burr

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Re: Survival Situaton
« Reply #57 on: January 04, 2010, 03:55:39 PM »
Yes, I would like to find some tobacco seeds and experiment. But they're harder to find than pot seeds. Pot seeds.

But I'm not talking about slavery. All I'm suggesting is that the inhabitants of Galts Gulch be prepared to deal with...um...unprepared people. Indentured servitude would give this human flotsam and jetsam, dare I say it, Hope.

And it would give me an excuse to ride around my property with a bullwhip.

Offline vesta111

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Re: Survival Situaton
« Reply #58 on: January 04, 2010, 03:57:40 PM »
What? Aren't you up in Queensland? Isn't that where sugar cane comes from? If Australia doesn't produce cane, sugar beets work pretty well...I guess...even though it fugged' up the recipe for Coke here in the states.

But being where you are, wouldn't you have to work less to survive?

 Not so sure on betting the farm on vegies.  Living on the coast there is a world of food out there just waiting to be fried up.  Can be caught in nets or on a hook.

  So much depends on the weather when planting crops.

5 acres is fine for scrub goats that give milk and hair to weave into clothing.  Beef cows are just left on their own to survive as are hogs that get fat on acorns. The woods up here yield tons of nuts and berrys, have to look at what the indeginous people lived on if they were hunter gatheres.

Today we have all these plant diseases that we never had before, with nothing to combat the bugs, we will have to go to a meat eating society. Lots of vegies grow wild, grapes and greens.

Humans need fat, animal fat, one can starve to death eating rodents, or non fat carrying anamals.

What is that group in Africa that survives on just the blood and milk from their cows.?

Escomos that survived for 2,000 years on fat and the meat of what they could catch. Not one Vegetable in their intire life.

Places in the Andies people raise and comsume Ginnie pigs, some societies eat pigeon, we call it Dove, same thing.

We ajust to conditions and food is perhaps the most important.  We milk and use for butter,yougert and cheese, camels, yacks and any thing that gives out milk, including humans.

Harvesting food from the ground is one heck of a hard thing to do, milking a sheep and eating lamb chops is oh so much easier.

We have to wait 90 days for vegies to mature, in that time one hog can drop 8-10 piglets that can fatten up in the field.

We are talking about survival here, our bodys change to what foods we injest.   I have seen the drawings of the people from the far north when we first began exploring, their livers had expanded to process the high fat diet.  Then there is the diet of the Norse Men and familys that was very high in cows milk, their hight began to grow.

Use what you have, never depend on nature to feed you, go with what you know will feed you and yours.   A tomato may one day cost a fortune, but one can live without that treat.











 


Offline debk

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Re: Survival Situaton
« Reply #59 on: January 04, 2010, 04:06:58 PM »
I better figure out a way to obtain chocolate....cause if I run out...it won't matter if there are any "bad guys" left....I will be able to take care of them all by myself... :uhsure:
Just hand over the chocolate...back away slowly...far away....and you won't get hurt....

Save the Earth... it's the only planet with chocolate.

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A balanced diet is chocolate in both hands.

Offline JohnnyReb

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Re: Survival Situaton
« Reply #60 on: January 04, 2010, 04:16:04 PM »
Just for the hell of it, August of last year my son and I planted some peas....my mother would have kicked my butt for the way I did it... :rotf: I chopped a 20 foot long trench in the lawn with a hacket and put peas in it about an inch deep and 2 inches apart....they came up and did well....I put grass clippings around then to kill the grass so I wouldn't have grass growing in them....6 weeks later I was eating peas....then the frost killed them. I just wanted to see if it would work.

So if push came to shove you could grow some stuff most any kind of way.

I got a 100+ acres (I rent it to farmers) but I have been thinking about cutting 20 or so acres out and getting a couple or three cows.  
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Offline thundley4

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Re: Survival Situaton
« Reply #61 on: January 04, 2010, 04:21:28 PM »
Yes, I would like to find some tobacco seeds and experiment. But they're harder to find than pot seeds. Pot seeds.


http://www.thetobaccoseed.com/

Offline Aaron Burr

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Re: Survival Situaton
« Reply #62 on: January 04, 2010, 04:22:42 PM »
Vestas' right on the money. I hope you keep that assessment to yourself though, as it would tend to undermine the whole premise of my sla..um..indentured servitude labor force.

Here's where I live, this is the end of my driveway.



So I'm going to be eating a lot of meat. But I like the way Mrs. Deb thinks. Were I able to grow coco beans, I would use my surplus labor force to build some sort of evil Willy Wonka factory. A serious chocoholic wouldn't mind that the salt required for chocolate manufacture came from the bitter tears of my surplus labor force...who for legal reasons will henceforth be referred to as "Umpa Lumpas".

But yeah, Mr. Efa definitely has us all beat when it comes to access to natural resources.

On Edit: Bookmarked the tobacco link. Who knew the interwebs were good for anything like that? And I'm envious of Mr. Reb. Hell, after I'm done consolidating the land adjacent to Casa De Burr, all I'll have is 11 acres.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2010, 04:37:32 PM by Aaron Burr »

Offline The Village Idiot

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Re: Survival Situaton
« Reply #63 on: January 04, 2010, 04:38:34 PM »
But I'm not talking about slavery. All I'm suggesting is that the inhabitants of Galts Gulch be prepared to deal with...um...unprepared people. Indentured servitude would give this human flotsam and jetsam, dare I say it,

If it gets mideival, people who are desperate will work insanely cheap. Room and gruel even. You won't need slaves for that. Water down some beer for the grown-ups and you won't need to worry about them rebelling, stealing maybe.

Offline The Village Idiot

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Re: Survival Situaton
« Reply #64 on: January 04, 2010, 04:48:00 PM »
So if push came to shove you could grow some stuff most any kind of way.

I got a 100+ acres (I rent it to farmers) but I have been thinking about cutting 20 or so acres out and getting a couple or three cows.  

100 acres to boot off squatters and then defend. Maybe hire those farmers, make yourself into a feudal lord.

We need someone to get a good quarry and start getting ready to build a nice castle.

Offline Aaron Burr

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Re: Survival Situaton
« Reply #65 on: January 04, 2010, 05:02:32 PM »
No,no. We're Americans. I'll probably throw my lot in with the local ranchers and rule with an iron fist from the auspices of the local Grange Hall. It can't get Medieval, a lot of places will still have electrical power for one thing, and a lot of people have gunz. I'm leaning towards more of a rural, Jeffersonian benign despotism myself. Think Judge Roy Bean...but more literate.

And I'm perfectly content to let FedGov take care of the cities. I hope the biggest one I see for the next 20 years is Flagstaff.

Offline The Village Idiot

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Re: Survival Situaton
« Reply #66 on: January 04, 2010, 05:06:11 PM »
No,no. We're Americans. I'll probably throw my lot in with the local ranchers and rule with an iron fist from the auspices of the local Grange Hall. It can't get Medieval, a lot of places will still have electrical power for one thing, and a lot of people have gunz. I'm leaning towards more of a rural, Jeffersonian benign despotism myself. Think Judge Roy Bean...but more literate.

And I'm perfectly content to let FedGov take care of the cities. I hope the biggest one I see for the next 20 years is Flagstaff.

If TSHTF the cities are going to burn and die.

Offline Aaron Burr

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Re: Survival Situaton
« Reply #67 on: January 04, 2010, 05:17:02 PM »
Well yeah, I was being tongue in cheek about FedGov taking care of the cities. The implication being that the cities would take FedGov down with them.

But about that 5 acres. I'm going with chickens, apples and blue agave cactus's so I can make tequila to sell. The Triumph converts to bio goop fuel and I shoot the landless hordes roaming the countryside seeking gainful employment as indentured servants and/or Umpa Lumpas.

Low overhead, less paperwork, and the transportation costs for freighting my Tequila to Prescott is pretty much nil.

I still think keeping a sizable population alive is the way to go, but some of you are just hard cases I guess and don't want to share. Fine. More coco beans for me.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2010, 07:28:55 PM by Aaron Burr »

Offline debk

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Re: Survival Situaton
« Reply #68 on: January 04, 2010, 05:46:29 PM »
Well yeah, I was being tongue in cheek about FedGov taking care of the cities. The implication being that the cities would take FedGov down with them.

But about that 5 acres. I'm going with chickens, apples and blue agave cactus's so I can make tequila to sell. The Triumph converts to bio goop fuel and I shoot the landless hordes roaming the countryside seeking gainful employment as indentured servants.

Low overhead, less paperwork, and the transportation costs for freighting my Tequila to Prescott is pretty much nil.

I still think keeping a sizable population alive is the way to go, but some of you are just hard cases I guess and don't want to share. Fine. More coco beans for me.

I have lots of chocolate stashed... just in case... :shucks:
Just hand over the chocolate...back away slowly...far away....and you won't get hurt....

Save the Earth... it's the only planet with chocolate.

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A balanced diet is chocolate in both hands.

Offline longview

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Re: Survival Situaton
« Reply #69 on: January 04, 2010, 05:51:32 PM »
I figure anything I have will be wanted by anyone who doesn't have. 

I think I would dry meat and have hard tack to start(both can be made pretty quickly and quietly) and try to avoid everyone else. 

Offline Aaron Burr

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Re: Survival Situaton
« Reply #70 on: January 04, 2010, 07:35:09 PM »
I'm too gregarious to avoid everyone. I'm hoping at least one of my neighbors knows how to make sweet potato pie.

And we'll still keep the space program up and running. I mean, NASA might not, but I bet I could achieve a temporary low earth orbit using an alcohol based fuel.

I'm just not a doom and gloomer. If stuff gets bad, you have to adapt. So I'll do my part by being prepared and wait for the inevitable opportunity where I can exploit...um...extend a helping hand to my fellow man.

Or I'll just write my cabin manifesto and grow a beard. I'm good either way.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2010, 07:39:58 PM by Aaron Burr »

Offline Thor

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Re: Survival Situaton
« Reply #71 on: January 04, 2010, 08:14:32 PM »
A preliminary essential is a dehydrator. I have two of them at my beck and call. TONS of foods can be dehydrated, storing very easily and very well. In addition, a vacuum sealer would be nice, too. Then there's all of the equipment for canning.
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Offline Aaron Burr

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Re: Survival Situaton
« Reply #72 on: January 04, 2010, 08:22:21 PM »
Say, that's right. Dehydrating would mean I get to have pineapple chunks year round.

Canning deserves it's own thread though. Lots of fiddly bits on the pressure boiler gizmo.

O.K. so we might need...solar panels or what not for electricity, dehydrators and canning junk, cultivation implements and seeds, some reloading equipment, anvil...maybe a forge...dang. How did our ancestors do all this?

Offline IassaFTots

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Re: Survival Situaton
« Reply #73 on: January 04, 2010, 09:10:17 PM »
Canning equipment check.  Knowledge how to use it?  WORKING ON IT.

Dehydrator~ check.

Food Saver~ on the list.

Cheese Making?  Working on it.

Bread baking?  Got someone.

Beer/Wine/Soda~ Got someone.

I need to learn how to sew.

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Offline Inga

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Re: Survival Situaton
« Reply #74 on: January 04, 2010, 09:44:30 PM »

Beans and potatoes will both keep for a long time if kept in a cool dry place.

Hmmm...no idea how to grow peppercorns.

Home made medicines? You will need to talk to someone who knows that stuff like Patriot Lady or Inga....they both know a lot about "folklore" medications.

Peppercorn seeds are heirloom seeds. They can be bought athttp://www.cherrygal.com/herb-piper-nigrum-heirloom-seeds-2010-p-11774.html.

This is also a medicinal herb for an astringent and to stop minor bleeding. Once you get your seed to grow into plants, leave a bunch of seeds to dry for your next years crop. You may have to wrap them in a netting such as panty hose to keep the birds from stealing them.You could take the second years seeds and throw them into the fields or forest, for they will come back each year. They are perennial plant ( they come back each year).

There are many herbs to gather in the forest and fields. They could be harvested for food and medical usage. That would be good to purchase a book of your area, to identify plants. And books for herbal preparation.

I would be glad to help anybody needing help in this area for survival purposes only. This is not to take the place of doctors or medicines.

Heirlooms are best for survival. They keep longer.
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