Author Topic: Antarctica Served as Climatic Refuge in Earth's Greatest Extinction Even  (Read 6483 times)

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Offline Thor

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Antarctica Served as Climatic Refuge in Earth's Greatest Extinction Event

ScienceDaily (Dec. 3, 2009) — The largest known mass extinction in Earth's history, about 252 million years ago at the end of the Permian Period, may have been caused by global warming. A new fossil species suggests that some land animals may have survived the end-Permian extinction by living in cooler climates in Antarctica. Jörg Fröbisch and Kenneth D. Angielczyk of The Field Museum together with Christian A. Sidor from the University of Washington have identified a distant relative of mammals, Kombuisia antarctica, that apparently survived the mass extinction by living in Antarctica.

The new species belongs to a larger group of extinct mammal relatives, called anomodonts, which were widespread and represented the dominant plant eaters of their time.

"Members of the group burrowed in the ground, walked the surface and lived in trees," said Fröbisch, the lead author of the study. "However, Kombuisia antarctica, about the size of a small house cat, was considerably different from today's mammals -- it likely laid eggs, didn't nurse its young and didn't have fur, and it is uncertain whether it was warm blooded," said Angielczyk, Assistant Curator of Paleomammology at The Field Museum. Kombuisia antarctica was not a direct ancestor of living mammals, but it was among the few lineages of animals that survived at a time when a majority of life forms perished.

Scientists are still debating what caused the end-Permian extinction, but it was likely associated with massive volcanic activity in Siberia that could have triggered global warming. When it served as refuge, Antarctica was located some distance north of its present location, was warmer and wasn't covered with permanent glaciers, said the researchers. The refuge of Kombuisia in Antarctica probably wasn't the result of a seasonal migration but rather a longer-term change that saw the animal's habitat shift southward. Fossil evidence suggests that small and medium sized animals were more successful at surviving the mass extinction than larger animals. They may have engaged in "sleep-or-hide" behaviors like hibernation, torpor and burrowing to survive in a difficult environment.

Earlier work by Fröbisch predicted that animals like Kombuisia antarctica should have existed at this time, based on fossils found in South Africa later in the Triassic Period that were relatives of the animals that lived in Antarctica. "The new discovery fills a gap in the fossil record and contributes to a better understanding of vertebrate survival during the end-Permian mass extinction from a geographic as well as an ecological point of view," Fröbisch said.

The team found the fossils of the new species among specimens collected more than three decades ago from Antarctica that are part of a collection at the American Museum of Natural History. "At the time those fossils were collected, paleontologists working in Antarctica focused on seeking evidence for the existence of a supercontinent, Pangaea, that later split apart to become separate land masses," said Angielczyk. The fossils collected in Antarctica provided some of the first evidence of Pangaea's existence, and further analysis of the fossils can refine our understanding of events that unfolded 250 million years ago.

"Finding fossils in the current harsh conditions of Antarctica is difficult, but worthwhile," said Angielczyk. "The recent establishment of the Robert A. Pritzker Center for Meteoritics and Polar Studies at The Field Museum recognizes the growing importance of the region," he said.

This research is part of a collaborative study of Dr. Jörg Fröbisch (Department of Geology, Field Museum, Chicago), Dr. Kenneth D. Angielczyk (Department of Geology, Field Museum, Chicago), and Dr. Christian A. Sidor (Burke Museum and Department of Biology, University of Washington), which will be published online December 3, 2009 in Naturwissenschaften.

Funding for this research was provided through a Postdoctoral Research Fellowship of the German Research Foundation (Deutsche Forschungsgemeinschaft) to J. Fröbisch and grants of the National Science Foundation to C. A. Sidor.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/12/091202205621.htm


I've read how ancient civilizations have mapped Antarctica as being a snow-free land mass. It seems to me that these ancient maps might be proven to be real. The question which now arises is how did they map that land mass so accurately??
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Offline vesta111

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Re: Antarctica Served as Climatic Refuge in Earth's Greatest Extinction Even
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2009, 02:16:07 PM »
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/12/091202205621.htm


I've read how ancient civilizations have mapped Antarctica as being a snow-free land mass. It seems to me that these ancient maps might be proven to be real. The question which now arises is how did they map that land mass so accurately??

Go one step further, the Planes of Nesca [spell check is out, sorry.]

There are many maps that are suposed to be very old that show  the coast lines of coasts that at that time were unknown.

Today we find artifacts that may show that humans survived the ice age, lived much as the Escamo and the Lap Landers.

We need to think we are the apex of techology, we are the top of the line in human eveloution. We need to look to our accomplishments as an extension of the lives lived before us---but we still cannot explain how those 2,000 years  ago were able to build and grow their civilizations.  How could those before us have created things that we could not accomplish today.?

The only record besides the Bible for the past is the books from the Hindi that are very extreme.

We have no idea how life, inventions and lost knowledge was going on in other parts of the world.

A very short time ago, 600 years the Americas, both North and South. The world at that time was a mess of humans with high and low knowledge.  We found a way to barge in and change world history.

99% of humanity could not read or write, but they found ways to explore new worlds and draw their own conclusions as to things they found.

Their conclusions were built on their own knowledge of the world, same as when we today find an artifact, we can only judge it by our knowledge of today.

As things come to light today, when we find an artifact, be it map or grave site, we tend to translate the findings as we would see it,  and perhaps miss the origional use of that piece of history.

This is one of the fun things about living in the era of today. All the mysterys just wating to be solved, all the questions that may continue for another 2,000 years.

You know, this lost knowledge has for years facinated me---especially the Aunk.  Is it possible that that device worked in some way as a block and pully to build the pyrimids,??  The symbol of everlasting life could have come from the invention that helped build the pyrimids .

Spell check went out and I am to busy to recheck spelling sorry.










Offline Chris_

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Re: Antarctica Served as Climatic Refuge in Earth's Greatest Extinction Even
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2009, 04:33:30 PM »
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/12/091202205621.htm


I've read how ancient civilizations have mapped Antarctica as being a snow-free land mass. It seems to me that these ancient maps might be proven to be real. The question which now arises is how did they map that land mass so accurately??

There are some Phoenician maps that appear to be copies of even earlier maps that not only show Antarctica as a snowfree landmass, but also show the Americas in similar detail.......

There is an obscure, but developing school of thought that a "great civilization" existed prior to 12,000 BCE, that was wiped out by some great natural cataclysm, however no definitive proof has emerged, except for the facts that civilizations such as the Egyptions, Incas, Mayans, ancient Chinese and others widely disbursed, share some common myths, as well as some commonality of architecture.

doc
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Offline Thor

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Re: Antarctica Served as Climatic Refuge in Earth's Greatest Extinction Even
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2009, 09:22:49 PM »
There are some Phoenician maps that appear to be copies of even earlier maps that not only show Antarctica as a snowfree landmass, but also show the Americas in similar detail.......

There is an obscure, but developing school of thought that a "great civilization" existed prior to 12,000 BCE, that was wiped out by some great natural cataclysm, however no definitive proof has emerged, except for the facts that civilizations such as the Egyptions, Incas, Mayans, ancient Chinese and others widely disbursed, share some common myths, as well as some commonality of architecture.

doc

I've maintained, for some time, that there once WAS an advanced civilization here on Earth, more advanced than we are today. Where they went to, who knows?? It might have been before the great flood. I don't think that the bible or the torah is accurate as far as establishing a timeline. The Zoroastrians wrote of a great flood long before the existence of the Bible or the Torah.

I also believe that carbon dating is not as exact as scientists would like to believe it is.

Of course, I also believe that Einstein wasn't completely correct in his theory that mass gets heavier as it approaches the speed of light and that the speed of light isn't a "speed limit". Similar to how scientists thought that the sound barrier couldn't be broken.
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Offline Chris_

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Re: Antarctica Served as Climatic Refuge in Earth's Greatest Extinction Even
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2009, 03:20:29 PM »
I've maintained, for some time, that there once WAS an advanced civilization here on Earth, more advanced than we are today. Where they went to, who knows?? It might have been before the great flood. I don't think that the bible or the Torah is accurate as far as establishing a timeline. The Zoroastrians wrote of a great flood long before the existence of the Bible or the Torah.


Well.....since both the Torah and the rest of the OT are basically oral histories that were passed down for generations until finally committed to writing around 800 BCE (if memory serves....I not a Bible historian), one must allow for a certain amount of error in the actual timeline.

Regarding the flood, I'm of the opinion that the flood spoken of by the ancients was not a global event, but one confined to the "known world" at that time (far too many distinct societies mention it in their histories).........there is some geological evidence that the level of the Mediterranean was much lower at one time (as was the Black Sea), and there was a geological "cofferdam" in the area of Gibraltar creating those levels.  Geologists speculate that an earthquake may have destroyed the landbridge between Spain and Africa, releasing a 400 foot wall of water from the Atlantic that innundated much of the landmass in the Middle East, and areas around the Med.....considering the distances and area involved, the Middle east would have seen an increase in water levels that was much slower (over a matter of weeks).......which is the "flood" described in the ancient writings.

As far as a true "global" innundation is concerned, I'm skeptical, merely due to the Law of Conservation of Matter......if it happened, one hell of a lot of water disappeared, which doesn't really compute.

doc
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Offline Chris_

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Re: Antarctica Served as Climatic Refuge in Earth's Greatest Extinction Even
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2009, 03:33:15 PM »
Of course, I also believe that Einstein wasn't completely correct in his theory that mass gets heavier as it approaches the speed of light and that the speed of light isn't a "speed limit". Similar to how scientists thought that the sound barrier couldn't be broken.

So far his Theory of General Relativity continues to stand as the benchmark for understanding our universe in single dimensional Physics.........the advance of knowledge in quantum physics is leading us into the area of understanding that travel beyond the speed of light is possible, however it will be accomplished by moving "interdimensionally", not exceeding the speed of light, per se......further understanding this is compounded by the fact that our present mathematics is incapable of calculating the probabilities, and a whole new area of math is going to have to be invented to explain how to accomplish these things.

A "Theory of Quantum Relativity" was spoken of by Einstein, however he, unfortunately, did not live long enough to explore it further.....he did do some basic work on the math however, which is pointing us in the right direction.

doc
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Offline vesta111

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Re: Antarctica Served as Climatic Refuge in Earth's Greatest Extinction Even
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2009, 11:07:15 AM »
So far his Theory of General Relativity continues to stand as the benchmark for understanding our universe in single dimensional Physics.........the advance of knowledge in quantum physics is leading us into the area of understanding that travel beyond the speed of light is possible, however it will be accomplished by moving "interdimensionally", not exceeding the speed of light, per se......further understanding this is compounded by the fact that our present mathematics is incapable of calculating the probabilities, and a whole new area of math is going to have to be invented to explain how to accomplish these things.

A "Theory of Quantum Relativity" was spoken of by Einstein, however he, unfortunately, did not live long enough to explore it further.....he did do some basic work on the math however, which is pointing us in the right direction.

doc


First the maps, What is the big deal with the snarling hysterical scientist when someone brings up the insane idea that there may have been civilisations that moved all over the face of the earth to trade and relocate 5,000 years ago.? Wow don't they have hissie fits at that notion.

Another insane idea is the dinosaurs died out much later then we think.  Where on earth did the Chinese and the Brits get the idea of the dragons in their legends.?

Now the fun one, what  if a comet  strike did tip earth to its present position, and humans had seen bottom of their world covered with forests and mapped it before the event.?

 Is there not a Bible story about the earth having the sun rise in the West until suddenly for one or two days the earth stood still and now the sun rises in the East be a way to explain a very odd event that happend to Joshia and the so called trumpeds and their vibrations that caused the walls around Jericho to fall.?

One would think that the vibrations from a huge comet would turn the brains of all living creatures to jelly even before it could be seen in the sky.

For more thought, suppose Einstein is right and wrong, We do live in different dimensions every time we sleep.   Perhaps he was not speaking about physically going too far off planet, He could have been talking about collective dream state that could move millions of people to explore. as we do robots on the bottom of the ocean tied into a central computer.

Just a quiet Sunday and I discovered my collection of very old Edger Casey books the other day.

When I lived in Virgina Beach I made the mandatory visit to the Casey Foundation.  What surprised me were all the serious students studying there.  I did not meet anyone wearing a tin foil hat, I did meet everything from college kids to elderly people that were trying to prove he was a fake.

What I ask is better, to believe everything until it is disproved, or to disbelieve everything until it is proved.?  Which way of life has the most possibility's for thought and research.?

All ideas welcome.











Offline Chris_

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Re: Antarctica Served as Climatic Refuge in Earth's Greatest Extinction Even
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2009, 12:33:31 PM »

First the maps, What is the big deal with the snarling hysterical scientist when someone brings up the insane idea that there may have been civilisations that moved all over the face of the earth to trade and relocate 5,000 years ago.? Wow don't they have hissie fits at that notion.

Another insane idea is the dinosaurs died out much later then we think.  Where on earth did the Chinese and the Brits get the idea of the dragons in their legends.?
Now the fun one, what  if a comet  strike did tip earth to its present position, and humans had seen bottom of their world covered with forests and mapped it before the event.?
 Is there not a Bible story about the earth having the sun rise in the West until suddenly for one or two days the earth stood still and now the sun rises in the East be a way to explain a very odd event that happend to Joshia and the so called trumpeds and their vibrations that caused the walls around Jericho to fall.?
One would think that the vibrations from a huge comet would turn the brains of all living creatures to jelly even before it could be seen in the sky.

For more thought, suppose Einstein is right and wrong, We do live in different dimensions every time we sleep.   Perhaps he was not speaking about physically going too far off planet, He could have been talking about collective dream state that could move millions of people to explore. as we do robots on the bottom of the ocean tied into a central computer.
Just a quiet Sunday and I discovered my collection of very old Edger Casey books the other day.

When I lived in Virgina Beach I made the mandatory visit to the Casey Foundation.  What surprised me were all the serious students studying there.  I did not meet anyone wearing a tin foil hat, I did meet everything from college kids to elderly people that were trying to prove he was a fake.

What I ask is better, to believe everything until it is disproved, or to disbelieve everything until it is proved.?  Which way of life has the most possibility's for thought and research.?
All ideas welcome.


Vesta, not to be nasty, but we are discussing actual science here, not metaphysics and mythology.....feel free do join in, but please leave the speculatory fables out of it........

doc
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Offline vesta111

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Re: Antarctica Served as Climatic Refuge in Earth's Greatest Extinction Even
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2009, 05:25:05 AM »
Vesta, not to be nasty, but we are discussing actual science here, not metaphysics and mythology.....feel free do join in, but please leave the speculatory fables out of it........

doc

Actual science, does not all science have to have a starting point.?

It has been said that some very important discovery's have been made either by accident, perhaps a dream [DNA ] or the linking of 2 or more opposing theory's to reach a proved.

We keep finding objects around the world that confuse us as to its use by the makers so long ago.  Scientists dive into the known culture of that time to search for any storeys, be they fables or books of faith to try to solve the mystery of What the heck is that thing.

My favorite story of accidental discovery comes from our own home grown Betty and Barney Hill.

Both claimed to have seen some kind of a chart while aboard  a extraterestial ship.  The drawing that both did under hypnoses was sent to  every sky observatory in the world.  No one could find the configuration they had drawn.--------Until---12 years later a lab worker placed the images in a slide projector reversed by mistake and Bingo, if one were in space looking forward toward our sun, that is what you would see.  Now YOU tell me how a Liberian and a mail man could have made that up ???

We are finding such so called fabled places in and around the Islands off Crete because of the book of fairy tales by Homer.

I find Science to be a world of exploding ideas, sometimes the most impossible is in fact not only possible, it just needs to be proved  with other sciences, and a Host of fables, ancient writings, books of faith. 

Scientists are an unruly bunch of Ego and greed. All this climate warming and cooling is really not science at all, it is just a way for scientists to apply for grants, to write books on a natural reacquiring event on our planet.  Sure they will alter the facts if they do not FIT into their theory, Follow the money.





 

Offline Chris_

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Re: Antarctica Served as Climatic Refuge in Earth's Greatest Extinction Even
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2009, 12:34:25 PM »
Actual science, does not all science have to have a starting point.?


Both claimed to have seen some kind of a chart while aboard  a extraterestial ship.  The drawing that both did under hypnoses was sent to  every sky observatory in the world.  No one could find the configuration they had drawn.--------Until---12 years later a lab worker placed the images in a slide projector reversed by mistake and Bingo, if one were in space looking forward toward our sun, that is what you would see.  Now YOU tell me how a Liberian and a mail man could have made that up ???

We are finding such so called fabled places in and around the Islands off Crete because of the book of fairy tales by Homer.

I find Science to be a world of exploding ideas, sometimes the most impossible is in fact not only possible, it just needs to be proved  with other sciences, and a Host of fables, ancient writings, books of faith. 

Scientists are an unruly bunch of Ego and greed. All this climate warming and cooling is really not science at all, it is just a way for scientists to apply for grants, to write books on a natural reacquiring event on our planet.  Sure they will alter the facts if they do not FIT into their theory, Follow the money.
 

There is a bit of difference between the ravings of someone claiming alien abduction, and the writings of Homer and Plato.......Troy was discovered by following the clues in Homer's texts......no one ever claimed that they were fables as such, but allegory at least......

Many of the writings of the ancient Greek philosophers contain verifyable facts.......and much of what is contained in them is metaphysical in nature......the trick has always been to figure out which is which.....

doc
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Offline Freeper

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Re: Antarctica Served as Climatic Refuge in Earth's Greatest Extinction Even
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2009, 08:01:28 PM »
I had no idea they had SUV's in those days since we all know that is what causes global warming.

I may not lock my doors while sitting at a red light and a black man is near, but I sure as hell grab on tight to my wallet when any democrats are close by.

Offline The Village Idiot

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Re: Antarctica Served as Climatic Refuge in Earth's Greatest Extinction Even
« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2009, 04:01:22 PM »
well it was not Antarctica back then. continental drift and all that.

Offline Chris_

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Re: Antarctica Served as Climatic Refuge in Earth's Greatest Extinction Even
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2009, 12:55:26 PM »
well it was not Antarctica back then. continental drift and all that.

There is also a school of thought, borne out by some scientific evidence, that the earth's poles have not only migrated, but have swapped in magnetic polarity several times over the history of the planet.  These polar shifts have resulted in the rotational axis being somewhere else entirely from where it is presently......

doc
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Offline Thor

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Re: Antarctica Served as Climatic Refuge in Earth's Greatest Extinction Even
« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2009, 02:22:33 PM »
I could understand a magnetic shift in the polar axis, but a complete rotational axis shift?? That seems to go against physical laws. (gyroscopic motion)
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Offline thundley4

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Re: Antarctica Served as Climatic Refuge in Earth's Greatest Extinction Even
« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2009, 03:21:59 PM »
I could understand a magnetic shift in the polar axis, but a complete rotational axis shift?? That seems to go against physical laws. (gyroscopic motion)

I think the magnetic shift causes a change in the position of the rotational axis , but not a 180 reversal of it. There is also a wobble in the rotation of the earth, sort of like a top when it slows.

Offline The Village Idiot

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Re: Antarctica Served as Climatic Refuge in Earth's Greatest Extinction Even
« Reply #15 on: December 21, 2009, 06:14:00 PM »
I think the magnetic shift causes a change in the position of the rotational axis , but not a 180 reversal of it. There is also a wobble in the rotation of the earth, sort of like a top when it slows.

When I said tht antarctica used to be somewhere else, I meant continental drift. Even a few centimeters a year over 252 million years can amount to something. Didn't antarctica break off from Australia at one point? or something like that?

Offline thundley4

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Re: Antarctica Served as Climatic Refuge in Earth's Greatest Extinction Even
« Reply #16 on: December 21, 2009, 06:16:37 PM »
When I said tht antarctica used to be somewhere else, I meant continental drift. Even a few centimeters a year over 252 million years can amount to something. Didn't antarctica break off from Australia at one point? or something like that?

Supposedly almost all the continents were connected or nearly so at one time.

Pangea



They do fit together quite nicely.

Offline The Village Idiot

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Re: Antarctica Served as Climatic Refuge in Earth's Greatest Extinction Even
« Reply #17 on: December 21, 2009, 06:19:00 PM »
Supposedly almost all the continents were connected or nearly so at one time.

Pangea



They do fit together quite nicely.

dang. I have DUmmies on the brain and this image has me imagining those continents squished together as fat DUmmies in an orgy.

eye bleach!! I'll dry them with sand paper.

Offline Oceander

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Re: Antarctica Served as Climatic Refuge in Earth's Greatest Extinction Even
« Reply #18 on: December 21, 2009, 06:23:21 PM »
The two were connected at one point.  Antarctica was also connected to Africa and South America, if I recall correctly.

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Re: Antarctica Served as Climatic Refuge in Earth's Greatest Extinction Even
« Reply #19 on: December 21, 2009, 10:43:34 PM »
I could understand a magnetic shift in the polar axis, but a complete rotational axis shift?? That seems to go against physical laws. (gyroscopic motion)

It is theorized that the axial shift was gradual in nature, happening over a thousand year period.......also the earth was much younger at the time......speculation is that this (or these) events were responsible for the start of the continental drift, and the breakup of the original landmass.......they would have been cataclysmic events.

doc
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