Author Topic: What was the last book you read?  (Read 19235 times)

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Offline SVPete

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Re: What was the last book you read?
« Reply #75 on: January 31, 2010, 12:03:07 PM »
I may have to spread this across multiple posts, but I finished Grapes of Wrath last night. I'd rate it four :puke: s (got to leave room for the likes of Hitler or Joseph F. Rutherford). I mentioned in my first post that my Dad was a farmer. More specifically, he and all of his brothers and sisters were farmers (or married farmers), as was their Father. Even more specifically, they were farmers in CA's Central Valley, albeit well north of where Grapes is set. Their Father and they were land-owning farmers at the time Grapes is set (as were many other family and friends), and, to put it bluntly, the world of Grapes is utterly inconsistent with the men and women among whom I grew up. While I grew up some 3 decades after the time of Grapes, three decades could not efface the kind of cruelty and meanness Steinbeck describes, not in every single adult I knew.

I'll have to continue this later.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2010, 02:49:25 PM by SVPete »
If, as anti-Covid-vaxxers claim, https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/robert-f-kennedy-jr-said-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-deadliest-vaccine-ever-made-thats-not-true/ , https://gospelnewsnetwork.org/2021/11/23/covid-shots-are-the-deadliest-vaccines-in-medical-history/ , The Vaccine is deadly, where in the US have Pfizer and Moderna hidden the millions of bodies of those who died of "vaccine injury"? Is reality a Big Pharma Shill?

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Offline Aaron Burr

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Re: What was the last book you read?
« Reply #76 on: January 31, 2010, 03:21:30 PM »
Just put the book down and forget about it. It's one book. Steinbeck wrote plenty of others. Again, Log From the Sea of Cortez is pretty cool. So is East of Eden. Pick up Cannery Row, Sweet Thursday and Tortilla Flats for some fun Steinbeck.

And oh yeah, if books and whatnot are milestones...I'm pretty sure this was a big one for me.

« Last Edit: January 31, 2010, 03:28:53 PM by Aaron Burr »

Offline SVPete

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Re: What was the last book you read?
« Reply #77 on: January 31, 2010, 03:47:33 PM »
Our family homeschooled our 3 munchkins from K-12. As our kids got into the Jr. High--High School age range, one of the things I taught them about fiction literature is that regardless of whether it's fantasy (e.g. The Hobbit or The Chronicles of Narnia) or historical fiction (e.g. The Winds of War), the author created their own world, with rules and "natural" happenings of the author's choosing. Thus, Grapes is a world of Steinbeck's creation. It is supposedly true to the central US of Dust Bowl times. As noted above and in previous posts, it has significant deviations and/or inconsistencies from that reality - significant in the sense that those things are much of the core of the story and characters.

Like an architect or an engineer or a master carpenter, an author of fiction creates something, a whole world. In some degree, such human creativity mirrors in miniature The Creator. A master craftsman - architect, engineer, carpenter, author, whatever - loves and respects their craft and what they create. Or at least they should. I haven't read as widely as I might in late 19th or 20th Century fiction, but Steinbeck, in Grapes at least, is one of two writers (Thomas Hardy being the other, especially Jude the Obscure) I've found who seem not to love the worlds they created and peopled. The central characters, the Joad family, are somewhere between cardboard cut-outs and fully developed characters. And the lack of full development seems to be because they are set up to be knocked down. They are expendable pawns bearing Steibeck's message, not worth the effort of full and credible development. Love or hate Dickens, he developed and respected those who peopled his world: Oliver Twist and Mr. Bumble; David Copperfield and Uriah Heep; Mr. Micawber, Mr. Murdstone and Betsy Trotwood; Philip Pirrip and Mrs. Havisham. Even Upton Sinclair's Socialist tract, The Jungle showed greater respect for the family of his central character, Jurgis! Whatever Steinbeck's work was, before or after, Grapes is not a masterwork.

One of the supposed rules of fiction is that the author should show, not tell. Let the story sustain and communicate your message. In practical terms, what reader of a story wants the story interrupted by a lecture?! This is a, IMO, flaw that makes The Hunchback of Notre Dame marginally readable, and Les Miserables almost unreadable. Is the anti-war message of All Quiet on the Western Front any less clear for lack of a lecture? Is Dickens's condemnation of England's poor laws in Oliver Twist any less clear for the lack of a 20- or 40-page dissertation inveighing against the poor laws? Somewhere between 1/4 to 1/3 of Grapes is chapters explicating Steinbeck's views of what was happening in those parts of American society and history. Come on! Is Steinbeck too unskilled as a writer to weave his views into the story? Or does Steinbeck fear that his readers are too stupid to perceive and understand what he is saying through his story?!

In sum, in Grapes, Steinbeck doesn't respect history, the world he created or his readers. And I find that all the more frustrating, because, as I posted above, there are some truly excellent bits of prose throughout Grapes - the whole of which is much less than the sum of Grapes' parts.
If, as anti-Covid-vaxxers claim, https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/robert-f-kennedy-jr-said-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-deadliest-vaccine-ever-made-thats-not-true/ , https://gospelnewsnetwork.org/2021/11/23/covid-shots-are-the-deadliest-vaccines-in-medical-history/ , The Vaccine is deadly, where in the US have Pfizer and Moderna hidden the millions of bodies of those who died of "vaccine injury"? Is reality a Big Pharma Shill?

Millions now living should have died. Anti-Covid-Vaxxer ghouls hardest hit.

Offline SVPete

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Re: What was the last book you read?
« Reply #78 on: January 31, 2010, 04:00:24 PM »
Quote
Just put the book down and forget about it.

As I posted above, "... I finished Grapes of Wrath last night." Maybe I'm weird, but I do see the value of understanding where people I disagree with are coming from. Sometimes it helps me avoid making a fool of myself. Sometimes it saves a lot of time in wheel-spinning discussion. Sometimes it helps me get to important roots of matters. That's why I read Grapes. That's why I read All Quiet on the Western Front. That's why, in a different context, I read the ravings of Joseph F. Rutherford. And why I read the Qur'an (in English translation).

This AM I started Ann Coulter's Godless. I'm not a big Ann Coulter fan, but it's going to be interesting to read more than just snippets seized upon by those who hate her. Her habit of nesting one-liner zingers in an otherwise thoughtful sentence is interesting.
If, as anti-Covid-vaxxers claim, https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/robert-f-kennedy-jr-said-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-deadliest-vaccine-ever-made-thats-not-true/ , https://gospelnewsnetwork.org/2021/11/23/covid-shots-are-the-deadliest-vaccines-in-medical-history/ , The Vaccine is deadly, where in the US have Pfizer and Moderna hidden the millions of bodies of those who died of "vaccine injury"? Is reality a Big Pharma Shill?

Millions now living should have died. Anti-Covid-Vaxxer ghouls hardest hit.

Offline Aaron Burr

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Re: What was the last book you read?
« Reply #79 on: January 31, 2010, 04:16:02 PM »
Man, you're a glutton for punishment. I understand what you're saying though. If I ever get a novel published I'll send you a copy so you can rip it to shreds.

I hope you get around to reading some Phillip K. D!ck, he's been described as the American Borges. Maybe so, maybe not, but he's readable.

Offline Eupher

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Re: What was the last book you read?
« Reply #80 on: January 31, 2010, 08:16:58 PM »
Kinda also depends on what you mean by lecture.

While I disagree with the obvious liberal leanings of John D. MacDonald (great novelist, though the critics had never really been kind to him), sometimes a story needs a bit of a break, to summarize maybe or just to take a deep breath.

MacDonald would launch into a diatribe that alternatively captured the human condition vice political folly. It made for some rollicking reading, though some would, I imagine, call his "story break" a lecture.
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Offline SVPete

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Re: What was the last book you read?
« Reply #81 on: January 31, 2010, 09:35:33 PM »
Examples of lectures ...

The Jungle has a ~chapter-long (not a short chapter) lecture on socialism. Atlas Shrugged has a couple of longish (2+ pages) dissertations on charity and morals. Les Miserable has a 50--100-page (or more?) lecture on the battle of Waterloo, and another lengthy lecture (20-50 pages, I think) on the "history" of monasticism in France. They all kinda-sorta fit in the story (i.e. not utterly irrelevant), but are so lengthy as to detract from the story. I suppose personal taste and expectations are significant, and some one somewhere in the past century and a half actually liked Hugo's French-perspective mini-history-book on Waterloo. I assume they cut it from the Broadway play.
If, as anti-Covid-vaxxers claim, https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/robert-f-kennedy-jr-said-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-deadliest-vaccine-ever-made-thats-not-true/ , https://gospelnewsnetwork.org/2021/11/23/covid-shots-are-the-deadliest-vaccines-in-medical-history/ , The Vaccine is deadly, where in the US have Pfizer and Moderna hidden the millions of bodies of those who died of "vaccine injury"? Is reality a Big Pharma Shill?

Millions now living should have died. Anti-Covid-Vaxxer ghouls hardest hit.

Offline The Village Idiot

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Re: What was the last book you read?
« Reply #82 on: January 31, 2010, 10:46:31 PM »
Examples of lectures ...

The Jungle has a ~chapter-long (not a short chapter) lecture on socialism. Atlas Shrugged has a couple of longish (2+ pages) dissertations on charity and morals. Les Miserable has a 50--100-page (or more?) lecture on the battle of Waterloo, and another lengthy lecture (20-50 pages, I think) on the "history" of monasticism in France. They all kinda-sorta fit in the story (i.e. not utterly irrelevant), but are so lengthy as to detract from the story. I suppose personal taste and expectations are significant, and some one somewhere in the past century and a half actually liked Hugo's French-perspective mini-history-book on Waterloo. I assume they cut it from the Broadway play.

Back in the day when there was no TV, radio and films it probably made some sense.