"Conservative Bible" draws ire from those who cheered on the "green Bible"

[SVPete]

It's tough enough to understand and follow what the Bible says. Picking and choosing and spinning and twisting it to suit one's views is somewhere between silly and presumptuous. A creature deciding what the Creator really meant? Puh-leeeez! For those who "like" the verse, "You must not turn away justice for your poor people in their lawsuits," three verses earlier God said, "(Y)ou must not show partiality to a poor man in his lawsuit," (Exodus 23:6 and Exodus 23:3, New English Translation). Similar balances of passages teaching charity and mercy and passages teaching ceasing various sins (actions and of the heart) could be cited. The Bible is not "liberal" or "conservative" of itself; it's bigger, challenging our ideologies.

Are "faith" ("belief") and "works" a dichotomy? Separate? Or symbiotic and mutually reinforcing?

[Celtic Rose]

It's tough enough to understand and follow what the Bible says. Picking and choosing and spinning and twisting it to suit one's views is somewhere between silly and presumptuous. A creature deciding what the Creator really meant? Puh-leeeez! For those who "like" the verse, "You must not turn away justice for your poor people in their lawsuits," three verses earlier God said, "(Y)ou must not show partiality to a poor man in his lawsuit," (Exodus 23:6 and Exodus 23:3, New English Translation). Similar balances of passages teaching charity and mercy and passages teaching ceasing various sins (actions and of the heart) could be cited. The Bible is not "liberal" or "conservative" of itself; it's bigger, challenging our ideologies.

Are "faith" ("belief") and "works" a dichotomy? Separate? Or symbiotic and mutually reinforcing?

Agree 100%.  God is greater than any one particular human view, and to emphasize any particular view point is the height of arrogance. 

BTW, I believe that "faith" and "works" are symbiotic and mutually reinforcing. 

[MrsSmith]

What is made clear in the Bible is that salvation requires both belief and repentance. What you claimed is that salvation requires only belief. There is nothing in the Bible which indicates that belief and repentance are the same thing or that repentance is an aspect of belief.

Again, Christ Himself said it.  Your opinion of the meaning of the word has far less weight than His.  Though I will agree that His disciples had to spell it out, over and over, for others that also lacked knowledge and understanding.  As the thief on the cross was instantly saved, so are any who believe...in the full and true meaning of that word.

[Celtic Rose]

Again, Christ Himself said it.  Your opinion of the meaning of the word has far less weight than His.  Though I will agree that His disciples had to spell it out, over and over, for others that also lacked knowledge and understanding.  As the thief on the cross was instantly saved, so are any who believe...in the full and true meaning of that word.

For clarity's sake, I might say that repentance would be the result of true belief in Christ. 

[MrsSmith]

For clarity's sake, I might say that repentance would be the result of true belief in Christ. 

I think we already covered it, but you probably said it more "clearly."     TNO can read, if he really wanted to understand the concept of "belief," he'd be reading the New Testament instead of trying to act smart.  I suppose we can't expect anything different from a creature self-admitted to belonging to the dark. 

[MrsSmith]

Pop quiz:

Can anyone name what else besides God's grace, faith, and repentance is required to attain salvation?

Answer: Only belief in Christ is required for salvation.

Pop quiz: can you name the person of whom was said,"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men.
The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."

[rubliw]

Again, Christ Himself said it.  Your opinion of the meaning of the word has far less weight than His.  Though I will agree that His disciples had to spell it out, over and over, for others that also lacked knowledge and understanding.  As the thief on the cross was instantly saved, so are any who believe...in the full and true meaning of that word.

There are significant differences of opinion within Christianity as to just what it takes to be saved - this is because the Bible at times makes different and seemingly contradictory claims on the matter.  So you can't blame a non-believer for being confused - most Christians are too.

Why should we believe that you accurately represent what Christ meant, as opposed to opinion of a Roman Catholic?

[MrsSmith]

There are significant differences of opinion within Christianity as to just what it takes to be saved - this is because the Bible at times makes different and seemingly contradictory claims on the matter.  So you can't blame a non-believer for being confused - most Christians are too.

Why should we believe that you accurately represent what Christ meant, as opposed to opinion of a Roman Catholic?

Me?  I don't accurately represent anything.  However, I'm not quoting myself.

Quote
Jesus answered and said to him, "Are you the teacher of Israel and do not understand these things?
 "Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you do not accept our testimony.
 "If I told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?
 "No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man.
 "As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up;
 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life.
 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
 "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.
 "He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
 "This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil.
 "For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.
 "But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God."



If you and TNO don't like what Christ said, you'll have your chance to tell Him about it.

[The Night Owl]

Answer: Only belief in Christ is required for salvation.

Wrong.

Hint: The answer is alluded to in the Our Father.

[The Night Owl]

Me?  I don't accurately represent anything.  However, I'm not quoting myself.

For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

What John 3 teaches is that faith in Jesus is a requirement for salvation but that doesn't mean it's the only requirement.

[MrsSmith]

What John 3 teaches is that faith in Jesus is a requirement for salvation but that doesn't mean it's the only requirement.

You are welcome to tell that to The Master when your time comes.  Personally, I'm going to believe Him.   

[Carl]

What John 3 teaches is that faith in Jesus is a requirement for salvation but that doesn't mean it's the only requirement.

Please enlighten us then and with the Scripture to back it up.

[The Night Owl]

You are welcome to tell that to The Master when your time comes.  Personally, I'm going to believe Him.   

Aren't you always saying that Bible verses should not be taken out of context? To believe that John 3 lists all the requirements for salvation is to believe only part of the word of God.

[MrsSmith]

Aren't you always saying that Bible verses should not be taken out of context? To believe that John 3 lists all the requirements for salvation is to believe only part of the word of God.

I didn't cherry pick one verse out of a book, I quoted several of them, clearly in context.  But here is another example, just for you...

One of the criminals who were hanged {there} was hurling abuse at Him, saying, "Are You not the Christ? Save Yourself and us!"


But the other answered, and rebuking him said, "Do you not even fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation?

"And we indeed {are suffering} justly, for we are receiving what we deserve for our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong."

And he was saying, "Jesus, remember me when You come in Your kingdom!"

And He said to him, "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise."

[The Night Owl]

I didn't cherry pick one verse out of a book, I quoted several of them, clearly in context.  But here is another example, just for you...

You're making my point for me. In Luke 23, Jesus grants salvation to the criminal who repents.

Luke 23 (King James Version)

41And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.

[MrsSmith]

You're making my point for me. In Luke 23, Jesus grants salvation to the criminal who repents.

Luke 23 (King James Version)

41And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.

Exactly.  The criminal on the cross did absolutely nothing except believe that Christ was Christ...yet he went straight to Paradise.

[Carl]

You're making my point for me. In Luke 23, Jesus grants salvation to the criminal who repents.

Luke 23 (King James Version)

41And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.

I honestly can`t imagine what point you are trying to make..or why.

My only guess is that you are trying to make a hard distinction between the words believe and repent but that would only be for an unknown purpose of yours.
Perhaps you want to believe that Jesus was a real person but don`t want because of  your atheist  mindset to admit that He was indeed a part of the Trinity...that is God.

[MrsSmith]

I honestly can`t imagine what point you are trying to make..or why.

My only guess is that you are trying to make a hard distinction between the words believe and repent but that would only be for an unknown purpose of yours.
Perhaps you want to believe that Jesus was a real person but don`t want because of  your atheist  mindset to admit that He was indeed a part of the Trinity...that is God.

He is trying to "prove" that repentance is not an integral part of believing in Christ.  Unfortunately, he is arguing against Christ's own words.  I guess he just hasn't quite figured out that God is always right.   

[The Night Owl]

Exactly.  The criminal on the cross did absolutely nothing except believe that Christ was Christ...yet he went straight to Paradise.

The criminal admitted that he deserved his punishment. In other words, he repented his sins.

[The Night Owl]

He is trying to "prove" that repentance is not an integral part of believing in Christ.  Unfortunately, he is arguing against Christ's own words.  I guess he just hasn't quite figured out that God is always right.  

Uh, no. I'm trying to show that repentance is a requirement for salvation.

[The Night Owl]

My only guess is that you are trying to make a hard distinction between the words believe and repent but that would only be for an unknown purpose of yours.

Every dictionary I know of draws a distinction between the word believe and the word repent so why shouldn't I?

[SVPete]

But can you repent without faith? And is faith without repentance real? IOW, in real life can they really be separable?

[Carl]

Every dictionary I know of draws a distinction between the word believe and the word repent so why shouldn't I?

You can if you want but it is simply foolishness in the context of Scripture.
So continue to look foolish,it is your choice.

[thundley4]

You can if you want but it is simply foolishness in the context of Scripture.
So continue to look foolish,it is your choice.

He does. In every thread he posts in.

[rubliw]

Me?  I don't accurately represent anything.  However, I'm not quoting myself.

Quote
Jesus answered and said to him, "Are you the teacher of Israel and do not understand these things?
 "Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you do not accept our testimony.
 "If I told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?
 "No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man.
 "As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up;
 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life.
 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
 "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.
 "He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
 "This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil.
 "For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.
 "But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God."



If you and TNO don't like what Christ said, you'll have your chance to tell Him about it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epistle_of_James

Your interpretations of the words of Jesus are heresy, depending on the Christian you talk too.