Lurking DUers

[NHSparky]

Hello all, thank you for the welcome. I must admit, I can't imagine getting such a reasonable welcome if I were a conservative posting on DU (supposing for a moment that conservatives were allowed to post on DU, which of course they are not).

This is encouraging, although I expect that the warnings some gave are correct and I might encounter some hostility as the discussions progress. I will try to avoid responding unkindly to such hostility. This is you guys' house and I am a guest in it.

Thank you for not biting my head off immediately. I was wondering if the claim that this forum welcomes lefties to sign up and discuss the issues was genuine. It seems that it is. I congratulate you on being sincere about this invitation.

Again, reasonable discourse is the name of the game.  We'll just as cheerfully kick in the balls anyone (say, a Ronulan) who comes here with the, "I'm right, you're wrong, and if you don't agree you're an idiot" meme, regardless of their beliefs or point of view.

I'm not going to say liberals are always wrong and conservatives always right, although I would argue that we're right for the majority of people the majority of the time.

Hey, as long as you're willing to do your homework and come correct, I will state for the record that the vast majority of us will do the same.  One gets back what one gives.  That being said, welcome.

[Happy Fun Ball]

The reasons why we do not want a "public option" is because:

1. If it ever passes, a great number of businesses will unload all of their healthcare policies in favor of the government one, preferring to relieve themselves of the burden and headaches, and to try to offset the high corporate taxes they have to pay. This will inevitably reduce the amount of choices people will have, not increase them.

2. Private insurance companies, or any business for that matter, cannot compete with an entity that does not require a profit to stay in business. The result will be more insurance companies will be forced out of business and all that will be left is the government "option".

3. There are quite a few people (mainly young adults) who simply do not want health care coverage at all, preferring to spend their money on other things. Why then will they be fined if they don't have health insurance?

4. All of this will ultimately lead to the public option being the only option.

5. Let's not forget about how much all this will cost, which will always, always be far greater than they first predicted.

6. Always

7. If the public option gets passed, more people will go to their doctors for more innocuous things (thinking they have "free health care" now), which will further strain the system. And that's even if the number of doctors remain constant. However, that will not be the case. This can only end in disaster.

[franksolich]

I am firmly convinced Islam was invented by Satan.  I don't believe for a second that everyone who subscribes to Islam is a Satan worshipper on purpose.  There is a lot of ignorance and simple-mindedness involved, just like with the simpler folks to follow the American Left.   There just isn't the intelligence out there to really think things through to their logical conclusion.  Satan and the American Left depend on and build on that sad pathetic side of human nature.

Oh now, Demonic Underwear, sir, I must beg to differ, slightly.

I've never made a secret of my own deeply-held religious convictions, which on the surface seem oppositely opposed to Islam.

But on the other hand, given the common heritage of both Christianity and Islam derived from Judaism, it seems to me that there's a divine reason Islam exists.

But since reality is infinite, and the human ability to comprehend finite, we aren't, really, capable of understanding why something "is," other than that it surely must exist for some purpose beyond our ability to recognize and understand.

I respect Islam for what it is, and like Sir Thomas More admonishing Henry VIII during the Dissolution of the Roman Catholic Church, one should not condemn an institution because of carnal men who misuse and abuse it.

It's sort of like this "hate the sin, but love the sinner" thing.

[Doc]

Or despite their loyalty as a voting block the Jews.
I am also curious why the intense and inordinate hatred the left has for any religion relating directly to the Bible but such respect for all that are not.

I can't explain the Jews, and quite a number of Jewish friends of ours have tried to enlighten us, but it boils down (as best as I can determine) to a "survivors guilt" issue that drives Jewish folks to the left, coupled with the ancestral heritage for many European Jews who were, and still are to an extent much more emotionally aligned with communism as a political ideology than the right, although they actually live their lives as the ultimate conservative capitalists.......it is really complex........and made more so by the fact that the majority of American Jewish folks live in the northeast, where being a leftist is Che' sheik'.......and they are good at blending in with the surrounding populations, as they have had to do so for the 2000 years of the diaspora, just to survive.....

For the rest of the American left, they hate all biblical religions simply because we believe in an inflexible moral compass that divides right and wrong, and we won't compromise on it for any reason, which flies in the face of the "moral relativism" that comprises much of the leftist ideology..........

doc

[Lord Undies]

Oh now, Demonic Underwear, sir, I must beg to differ, slightly.

So noted and understood.

I respect Islam for what it is, and like Sir Thomas More admonishing Henry VIII during the Dissolution of the Roman Catholic Church, one should not condemn an institution because of carnal men who misuse and abuse it.

It's sort of like this "hate the sin, but love the sinner" thing.

I think I am free to condemn such an institution.  I have no doubt what the institution would evolve into today was never lost on Satan.  It was expected and desired.  In fact, it was destiny by design.  

It will come to pass, the final great battle.  It will not be between nations.  It will not be because of politics.  It will be between the False Religion of Satan and the True and Everlasting Light.

[franksolich]

It will come to pass, the final great battle.  It will not be between nations.  It will not be because of politics.  It will be between the False Religion of Satan and the True and Everlasting Light.

But how can one be certain Islam is the False Religion of Satan?

How can one be sure it's not something else, such as socialism?

All I know is that it's not Christianity, which sustains and nourishes man, this Evil.

And Islam itself has a proven track record of sustaining and nourishing those living in a place and environment hostile to man.

Remember, what seems to be, isn't always.

And of course Evil is good at masquerading.

[thundley4]

But how can one be certain Islam is the False Religion of Satan?

How can one be sure it's not something else, such as socialism?

All I know is that it's not Christianity, which sustains and nourishes man, this Evil.

And Islam itself has a proven track record of sustaining and nourishing those living in a place and environment hostile to man.

Remember, what seems to be, isn't always.

And of course Evil is good at masquerading.

We are also seeing "secular humanism" referred to as a religion, more and more.  What could be more "satanic" than equating humans with God? Is that not what Lucifer did in a way?

[franksolich]

We are also seeing "secular humanism" referred to as a religion, more and more.  What could be more "satanic" than equating humans with God? Is that not what Lucifer did in a way?

That's what I'm wondering.

If not the false religion of socialism, what about the false religion of secular humanism?

[Carl]

That's what I'm wondering.

If not the false religion of socialism, what about the false religion of secular humanism?

Isn`t that a predominate part of Marxisim...the denial of God and elevation of man.

[franksolich]

Isn`t that a predominate part of Marxisim...the denial of God and elevation of man.

Yes--much more so than in Islam, whose principal belief, although malpracticed by those using Islam for malicious purposes, is "submission to God."

I suspect the false idol is Marxism, communism, socialism, secular humanism.

[thundley4]

Yes--much more so than in Islam, whose principal belief, although malpracticed by those using Islam for malicious purposes, is "submission to God."

I suspect the false idol is Marxism, communism, socialism, secular humanism.

A perfect combination of how to destroy any country, and kill many innocent lives.

[Lord Undies]

My God, the One and Only, had Mohammad (and Muhammad) in mind when He issued Commandment #1.

[AllosaursRus]

Oh my.

One is speechless.

Welcome, and sit down, relax, and kick off the shoes, making yourself comfortable.

We're mellow here, and as you pointed out, sane people can disagree without getting all wrought up and upset.

It's apparent you don't know me very well Coach. Heh, heh, heh!

[franksolich]

It's apparent you don't know me very well Coach. Heh, heh, heh!

Oh, I know you well, sir.

We go back a long ways, more than half a decade.

[AllosaursRus]

Oh, I know you well, sir.

We go back a long ways, more than half a decade.

Ah yes! The days of DUmmie Funnies, The Big Red Round One, and Diebolds own Bev Harris! lol!

I do tend to not cut liberals much slack, doncha know! One of these days we'll have to get together and toss a few Red Labels.