Can you support the troops if you don't support the war?

[Carl]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2880420

margotb822  (156 posts)        Sun Feb-17-08 01:50 PM
Original message
Poll question: Can you support the troops if you don't support the war?
   Many people believe that they only way Congress can halt this administration's war in Iraq is to cut the funding. Others argue that cutting the funding would only hurt the troops, but it wouldn't slow down the Bush war machine. What do you believe? Are the troops separate from the war? Can you support one without support the other?
Poll result (54 votes)
Yes, there is a difference    (45 votes, 83%)   Vote
No, troops and the war are the same    (5 votes, 9%)   Vote
Don't know/Don't care    (3 votes, 6%)   Vote
Maybe, there's gray area    (1 votes, 2

Any guesses where this one is going?

LWolf  (1000+ posts)         Sun Feb-17-08 01:56 PM
Response to Original message
1. Cutting the funding ends the war.
   Ending the war and bringing the troops home is the best kind of support I can conceive of.

ileus (1000+ posts)        Sun Feb-17-08 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #1
12. When we cut the funding do we just leave them and the equipment there?
   I mean really why not just put a stop payment on the war today and just leave all personnel and equipment there. Why spend another dollar there...period. The troops are resourceful they could sell their junk and make it to an airport somewhere for a plane ticket.

In fairness the idiocy of this one was called out.

acmavm  (1000+ posts)        Sun Feb-17-08 01:57 PM
Response to Original message
2. That's a really hard call. I suppose I could ask who's physically in Iraq
   shooting innocent civilians, raping women, and killing kids? I suppose I could ask why if "I was just following orders' wasn't supposed to work for Germans, why should it work now? I suppose I could wonder why economically strapped American who are scraping to get by, in some case aren't really getting by, should expect to pay for the continuation of an illegal occupation and buy food and armor for the people committing all of the above. I don't know.

I do know that you won't find a rich republican's sons over there (except for that ****ing nutball John McCain).

I don't know.

 

Warren Stupidity  (1000+ posts)         Sun Feb-17-08 02:01 PM
Response to Original message
5. Gotta Sport Da Troops!
   Edited on Sun Feb-17-08 02:01 PM by Warren Stupidity
I really hate this framing. I do not support sending our troops overseas to murder foreigners for no good reason. I support bringing all of our forces back home and completely restructuring our military position in the world.

Put yourself in Germany 1941. Ask yourself the same question. Oh I know 'Godwin's Law'. Screw that. We've caused the death of somewhere around 1,000,000 Iraqis so far with no end in sight. How much troop-sportin do we have to do before we are simply accomplices?

Eat shit and die asshole.

BushDespiser12  (1000+ posts)         Sun Feb-17-08 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Succinct, and spot-on.
   

mike_c  (1000+ posts)         Sun Feb-17-08 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #5
14. excellent response!
   My feelings exactly. The war against Iraq is a war crime, so just who are the criminals responsible for the crime? All Americans are CRIMINALLY responsible IMO-- and that includes "the troops."

May the day come when you are praying for the help of "the troops".

greenvpi (63 posts)        Sun Feb-17-08 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
6. No! The troops are what give Bush his power!
   If they had not volunteered (and he's been President for over seven years so at this point they are all knew what they were getting into when they signed-up or renewed) to serve him personally. While all Bush does is talk and order, these troops are the ones who are actually doing the atrocities.

But DU supports the troops you know.

FreeStateDemocrat (1000+ posts)       Sun Feb-17-08 07:47 PM
Response to Original message
28. They are all there voluntarily since the war has been going on for 5 yrs they could have gotten out.
   They have made the conscious choice to remain in the military and that entails supporting an illegal war. They asked for it, so I hope they enjoy the money and the benefits of being a mercenary who has sold their soul to Bushco. This ain't like Vietnam where people were conscripted against their will and paid a pittance.Most of these people have made a financial decision where they can make more money by having blood on their hands then they could earn in civilian life. Most everybody supports them through the huge taxpayer burden of keeping a military in combat operations apparently for the foreseeable future or even a hundred years if McCrazy is correct.

 

[DumbAss Tanker]

The 83% for option 1 reflects a much higher level of rationality than I would have expected on the Island of Lost Toys.

[Carl]

The 83% for option 1 reflects a much higher level of rationality than I would have expected on the Island of Lost Toys.

I suspect that is only because they know that is the "right" answer.

The thread suggests something otherwise.

[Odin's Hand]

The 83% for option 1 reflects a much higher level of rationality than I would have expected on the Island of Lost Toys.

I suspect that is only because they know that is the "right" answer.

The thread suggests something otherwise.

Yep, because they know...

[TheSarge]

margotb822  (156 posts)        Sun Feb-17-08 01:50 PM
Original message
Poll question: Can you support the troops if you don't support the war?

No.  Next question.

[Chris_]

mike_c  (1000+ posts)         Sun Feb-17-08 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #5
14. excellent response!
   My feelings exactly. The war against Iraq is a war crime, so just who are the criminals responsible for the crime? All Americans are CRIMINALLY responsible IMO-- and that includes "the troops."

So by mike_c's logic, if he's not there AT THE VERY LEAST standing between the troops and the Iraqis as a human shield or (as he SHOULD BE considering is POV) fighting on the side of the insurgents, isn't he complicit in the death of Iraqi citizens just by his refusal to practice what he preaches?

Cindie

[dandi]

**** those pieces of shit. I've scraped dogshit off my shoe that has more worth than the whole lot of them.

[Freeper]

I would say yes you can be opposed to the mission but where the DUmmies **** up is when they want the US to fail. I wasn't exactly behind the war in Kosovo but I still wanted us to win it.

[The Night Owl]

Any citizen who pays taxes is a supporter of the troops and the missions they are sent on.

[LadyLiberty]

Any citizen who pays taxes is a supporter of the troops and the missions they are sent on.

Not exactly. I don't support many things my tax dollars go to fund that are forced upon me.

[LadyLiberty]

To answer the original question, when you support someone, you support what they are doing. These idiots can't fool people with good sense anymore by saying that they support the troops, just not what they are doing 

[dutch508]

love the sinner, hate the sin?

[Attero Dominatus]

greenvpi  (63 posts) Click to send private message to this author  Click to view this author's profile  Click to add this author to your buddy list  Click to add this author to your Ignore list      Sun Feb-17-08 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
6. No! The troops are what give Bush his power!
   
If they had not volunteered (and he's been President for over seven years so at this point they are all knew what they were getting into when they signed-up or renewed) to serve him personally. While all Bush does is talk and order, these troops are the ones who are actually doing the atrocities.
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mike_c  Donating Member  (1000+ posts) Journal  Click to send private message to this author  Click to view this author's profile  Click to add this author to your buddy list  Click to add this author to your Ignore list      Sun Feb-17-08 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #5
14. excellent response!
   
My feelings exactly. The war against Iraq is a war crime, so just who are the criminals responsible for the crime? All Americans are CRIMINALLY responsible IMO-- and that includes "the troops."
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Arctic Dave  Donating Member  (138 posts) Click to send private message to this author  Click to view this author's profile  Click to add this author to your buddy list  Click to add this author to your Ignore list      Sun Feb-17-08 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #4
34. My thought too.
   
If they were in when this started I will give them slack. But the truth about this CF has been out for some time. I have no sympathy for anyone involved wether your a frontline or a REMF.
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[The Night Owl]

Not exactly. I don't support many things my tax dollars go to fund that are forced upon me.

Paying taxes is tantamount to supporting everything that those taxes are used for.

[Attero Dominatus]

Not exactly. I don't support many things my tax dollars go to fund that are forced upon me.

Paying taxes is tantamount to supporting everything that those taxes are used for.

Yeah but taxes are mandatory. Just because one pays a tax does not mean the tax payer supports everything that tax money is being spent on.

[LadyLiberty]

I don't support my tax dollars going towards the propagation of Planned Parenthood.

[DixieBelle]

I certainly don't support all of the programs my tax dollars fund!!! But, as a law abiding citizen, I will pay my taxes and express my dissent in the voting booth.

This idea of "supporting the troops via your mandatory taxes" is utter nonsense and a dishonest attempt to excuse the vile troop bashing we see on DU.

[jukin]

Any citizen who pays taxes is a supporter of the troops and the missions they are sent on.

Then that takes out 98% of the DUchebags.

[Chris_]

I don't support my tax dollars going towards the propagation of Planned Parenthood.

Amen!  It's bad enough Planned Parenthood is actually making a profit. 

[TheSarge]

mike_c  (1000+ posts)         Sun Feb-17-08 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #5
14. excellent response!
   My feelings exactly. The war against Iraq is a war crime, so just who are the criminals responsible for the crime? All Americans are CRIMINALLY responsible IMO-- and that includes "the troops."

Wow you still trying to sell this pice of shit theory aren't you?

I thought you learned your lesson about this after I publicly pwn3d your ass over that very statement at LiberalUnderground?

Look Bugsy...you're trying to apply U.N. law to the U.S. and that just isn't going to fly.

You've tied your whole "all troops are criminals" theory to some arcane U.N. law that neither applies to nor supersedes U.S. Law.

And I showed you quite clearly where you were wrong before.

No one is criminally responsible for anything jackass.  FOAD.

[Chris_]

mike_c  (1000+ posts)         Sun Feb-17-08 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #5
14. excellent response!
   My feelings exactly. The war against Iraq is a war crime, so just who are the criminals responsible for the crime? All Americans are CRIMINALLY responsible IMO-- and that includes "the troops."

Wow you still trying to sell this pice of shit theory aren't you?

I thought you learned your lesson about this after I publicly pwn3d your ass over that very statement at LiberalUnderground?

Look Bugsy...you're trying to apply U.N. law to the U.S. and that just isn't going to fly.

You've tied your whole "all troops are criminals" theory to some arcane U.N. law that neither applies to nor supersedes U.S. Law.

And I showed you quite clearly where you were wrong before.

No one is criminally responsible for anything jackass.  FOAD.

Hey, let him turn himself in to the Al Quaida victims.  Or, more efficiently, just try himself, find himself guilty, and give and execute the death penalty.
 

[TheSarge]

Hey, let him turn himself in to the Al Quaida victims.  Or, more efficiently, just try himself, find himself guilty, and give and execute the death penalty.
 

I've tried looking for that discussion from LU archived somewhere but I can't.

I'd love to re-post his initial argument...but you'd have to make sure you weren't drinking anything when you read it.