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Offline Rebel Yell

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Re: born gay or choose to be gay
« Reply #25 on: February 12, 2008, 10:18:11 AM »
Quote from: TKayOh on February 12, 2008, 10:04:59 AM
Quote from: Sam Fisher on February 11, 2008, 11:43:05 AM
Quote from: TKayOh on February 11, 2008, 11:41:01 AM
Quote from: Big Don on February 11, 2008, 11:29:20 AM
People are born Blind, that is a birth defect.
People are born Deaf, that is a birth defect.
People are born with cleft palates, that is a birth defect.
People are born with Downs Syndrome, that is a birth defect.
Yet, somehow, if people are (btw, they aren't) born gay that ISN'T a birth defect? Bullshit.

Because being gay in and of itself does not impede you from seeing, working, eating or fulfilling the most basic requirements of daily life.

That's why it can be argued that it is not a birth defect.

*TKay*

But it does impede you from reproducing, which is the most basic requirement of life.

Not necessarily.

*TKay*
Yes, actually it is.  Without reproduction, there would be no life.

I'm not gaybashing or anything, just stating the way I feel.  I really don't care what people do, as long as it don't affect me.
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Offline Rebel

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Re: born gay or choose to be gay
« Reply #26 on: February 12, 2008, 10:18:34 AM »
Quote from: TKayOh on February 12, 2008, 10:14:35 AM
So. . .if a straight couple resorts to IVF. . .they weren't a couple at all either, were they?

*TKay*

No, one of the parties in the straight marriage had a defect.
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Offline Lord Undies

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Re: born gay or choose to be gay
« Reply #27 on: February 12, 2008, 10:21:53 AM »
Quote from: TKayOh on February 12, 2008, 10:14:35 AM
So. . .if a straight couple resorts to IVF. . .they weren't a couple at all either, were they?

*TKay*

Resorting to IVF indicates a failure to achieve the possible.  Two homosexuals never had the possiblity.  I don't see the comparison as valid.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2008, 10:24:58 AM by Lord Undies »
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Offline RedTail

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Re: born gay or choose to be gay
« Reply #28 on: February 12, 2008, 10:26:53 AM »
Quote from: Rebel on February 12, 2008, 10:18:34 AM
Quote from: TKayOh on February 12, 2008, 10:14:35 AM
So. . .if a straight couple resorts to IVF. . .they weren't a couple at all either, were they?

*TKay*

No, one of the parties in the straight marriage had a defect.

Sometimes the defect extends to both parties in a marriage.
And the parties in the gay partnership have this "defect" as well. 
It's moving the goalposts to say otherwise.

I know most of you aren't bashers. . .but at least see it from where I'm standing. It's not just people in the straight community that may not get where I come from, but there are idiots in the gay community that dismiss people like me as well as a phenomenon that simply doesn't exist, especially males that happen to share my particular orientation.  So I've gotta be defensive on both ends.

Why am I defending the concept that being gay isn't a "defect". . .merely a bend in the tree of creation that no one's quite explained? Because I'm not a hypocrite. Because I won't defend one side then deny the other exists, unlike gay people I've met in my wanderings over the innernetz.


*TKay*
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Offline Rebel

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Re: born gay or choose to be gay
« Reply #29 on: February 12, 2008, 10:28:59 AM »
Quote from: TKayOh on February 12, 2008, 10:26:53 AM
Sometimes the defect extends to both parties in a marriage.
And the parties in the gay partnership have this "defect" as well. 
It's moving the goalposts to say otherwise.

I know most of you aren't bashers. . .but at least see it from where I'm standing. It's not just people in the straight community that may not get where I come from, but there are idiots in the gay community that dismiss people like me as well as a phenomenon that simply doesn't exist, especially males that happen to share my particular orientation.  So I've gotta be defensive on both ends.

Why am I defending the concept that being gay isn't a "defect". . .merely a bend in the tree of creation that no one's quite explained? Because I'm not a hypocrite. Because I won't defend one side then deny the other exists, unlike gay people I've met in my wanderings over the innernetz.


*TKay*

Do I think some are born that way? Sure. My boss, a retired CW3 is one. Bless her heart, I just don't see a way she could ever get a guy. However, I do not think ALL are born that way. ...and it is either a defect or a lifestyle choice. One of the two.
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Offline RedTail

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Re: born gay or choose to be gay
« Reply #30 on: February 12, 2008, 10:36:20 AM »
Quote from: Rebel on February 12, 2008, 10:28:59 AM

Do I think some are born that way? Sure. My boss, a retired CW3 is one. Bless her heart, I just don't see a way she could ever get a guy. However, I do not think ALL are born that way. ...and it is either a defect or a lifestyle choice. One of the two.


How can you tell which ones aren't "Born that way"?

*TKay*
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Offline Rebel Yell

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Re: born gay or choose to be gay
« Reply #31 on: February 12, 2008, 10:47:40 AM »
Quote from: Lord Undies on February 12, 2008, 10:21:53 AM
Quote from: TKayOh on February 12, 2008, 10:14:35 AM
So. . .if a straight couple resorts to IVF. . .they weren't a couple at all either, were they?

*TKay*

Resorting to IVF indicates a failure to achieve the possible.  Two homosexuals never had the possiblity.  I don't see the comparison as valid.
Exactly.  If my sink stops up, I pour Drano down it and wait.  I expect the pipes to do what they were designed to do, sometimes they don't.  That's a defect.

If I don't have a drain in the botom of the sink, I don't expect the water to run out.  That is not a defect, that is the wrong equipment.  And the wrong equipment isn't a defect, it means you need to replace it with the right equipment.
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Offline Chris_

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Re: born gay or choose to be gay
« Reply #32 on: February 12, 2008, 11:29:07 AM »
Quote from: Sam Fisher on February 12, 2008, 10:47:40 AM
Quote from: Lord Undies on February 12, 2008, 10:21:53 AM
Quote from: TKayOh on February 12, 2008, 10:14:35 AM
So. . .if a straight couple resorts to IVF. . .they weren't a couple at all either, were they?

*TKay*

Resorting to IVF indicates a failure to achieve the possible.  Two homosexuals never had the possiblity.  I don't see the comparison as valid.
Exactly.  If my sink stops up, I pour Drano down it and wait.  I expect the pipes to do what they were designed to do, sometimes they don't.  That's a defect.

If I don't have a drain in the botom of the sink, I don't expect the water to run out.  That is not a defect, that is the wrong equipment.  And the wrong equipment isn't a defect, it means you need to replace it with the right equipment.
Nice plumbing analogy.
 :-)
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Offline DixieBelle

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Re: born gay or choose to be gay
« Reply #33 on: February 12, 2008, 11:33:32 AM »
Love the analogy too Sam! :-) Of course I was picturing "male" and "female" tools.
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Offline LadyLiberty

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Re: born gay or choose to be gay
« Reply #34 on: February 12, 2008, 11:34:01 AM »
If something deviates from the norm, it is an abnormality.

Homosexuality is a sexual abnormality.

My brother was born with webbed feet. That too is an abnormality.

I am left-handed, which pretty much deviates from the norm. Being left-handed might too be considered an abnormality.

Having a hairlip is an abnormality.

And so on and so forth.

It is what it is.
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Offline Chris_

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Re: born gay or choose to be gay
« Reply #35 on: February 12, 2008, 11:35:50 AM »
Quote from: LadyLiberty on February 12, 2008, 11:34:01 AM
If something deviates from the norm, it is an abnormality.

Homosexuality is a sexual abnormality.

My brother was born with webbed feet. That too is an abnormality.

I am left-handed, which pretty much deviates from the norm. Being left-handed might too be considered an abnormality.

Having a hairlip is an abnormality.

And so on and so forth.

It is what it is.
...and how you deal with it is what really counts.
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Offline LadyLiberty

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Re: born gay or choose to be gay
« Reply #36 on: February 12, 2008, 11:39:26 AM »
Exactly, Lug-Nut.
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Offline Chris_

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Re: born gay or choose to be gay
« Reply #37 on: February 12, 2008, 11:42:14 AM »
Well, I
Quote from: TKayOh on February 12, 2008, 10:36:20 AM
Quote from: Rebel on February 12, 2008, 10:28:59 AM

Do I think some are born that way? Sure. My boss, a retired CW3 is one. Bless her heart, I just don't see a way she could ever get a guy. However, I do not think ALL are born that way. ...and it is either a defect or a lifestyle choice. One of the two.


How can you tell which ones aren't "Born that way"?

*TKay*
Well, I'm pretty sure the ones that told me they chose to be gay CHOSE TO BE GAY.
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Offline RedTail

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Re: born gay or choose to be gay
« Reply #38 on: February 12, 2008, 11:57:30 AM »
Quote from: Big Don on February 12, 2008, 11:42:14 AM
Well, I
Quote from: TKayOh on February 12, 2008, 10:36:20 AM
Quote from: Rebel on February 12, 2008, 10:28:59 AM

Do I think some are born that way? Sure. My boss, a retired CW3 is one. Bless her heart, I just don't see a way she could ever get a guy. However, I do not think ALL are born that way. ...and it is either a defect or a lifestyle choice. One of the two.


How can you tell which ones aren't "Born that way"?

*TKay*
Well, I'm pretty sure the ones that told me they chose to be gay CHOSE TO BE GAY.

And with your genial personality, I'm sure they told you in droves.

*TKay*
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Offline LadyLiberty

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Re: born gay or choose to be gay
« Reply #39 on: February 12, 2008, 12:17:42 PM »
If you ask a homosexual why they are homosexual, their most likely response will be, "because it is my 'preference''. They wouldn't even know if they choose it because it is inherent or because of life experience (because we are conditioned and learn to react to situations from the time we are infants, who remembers that?).

The word "preference" is what someone chooses. It's the same thing for a heterosexual, too. I am heterosexual because it is my preference. It is what I choose.
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Offline dandi

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Re: born gay or choose to be gay
« Reply #40 on: February 12, 2008, 09:54:20 PM »
Quote
born gay or choose to be gay

Born Gay
(Sung to the tune of "Born Free")

Born gay, as gay as Jim Nabors
A big gay fellator
Born gay to follow your heart

Live gay, and limp wrists surround you
The bathhouse astounds you
Feel free to take off your towel

Stay gay, you're all about fashion
You're gay as a pink tutu
So to yourself be true

Born gay, hang out at the rest stops
Avoid all the vice cops
'Cause yoooooour boooorn gaaaaaay!
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Offline BlueStateSaint

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Re: born gay or choose to be gay
« Reply #41 on: February 13, 2008, 07:48:21 AM »
Quote from: dandi on February 12, 2008, 09:54:20 PM
Quote
born gay or choose to be gay

Born Gay
(Sung to the tune of "Born Free")

Born gay, as gay as Jim Nabors
A big gay fellator
Born gay to follow your heart

Live gay, and limp wrists surround you
The bathhouse astounds you
Feel free to take off your towel

Stay gay, you're all about fashion
You're gay as a pink tutu
So to yourself be true

Born gay, hang out at the rest stops
Avoid all the vice cops
'Cause yoooooour boooorn gaaaaaay!


Dandi, this is all I can add to that . . .  :bow: :rotf:
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Offline CactusCarlos

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Re: born gay or choose to be gay
« Reply #42 on: February 15, 2008, 11:20:57 AM »
Quote from: TKayOh on February 12, 2008, 10:36:20 AM
Quote from: Rebel on February 12, 2008, 10:28:59 AM

Do I think some are born that way? Sure. My boss, a retired CW3 is one. Bless her heart, I just don't see a way she could ever get a guy. However, I do not think ALL are born that way. ...and it is either a defect or a lifestyle choice. One of the two.


How can you tell which ones aren't "Born that way"?

*TKay*

No test exists.  You have to take the person's word for it that they're gay.  This is part of the problem I have with hate-crime laws.  All a person has to say is that they're gay and their case is elevated to a special status. 
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