Remember when the US gov't killed 252 Iranians in mid-air? They'd kill for a Cap

[Crazy Horse]

I see some false facts on wiki............Imagine that............BDS and Iran war tin foil happening

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2837488

Postman (1000+ posts)     Fri Feb-08-08 08:57 PM
Original message
Remember when the US gov't killed 252 Iranians in mid-air? They'd kill for a Capt. Rogers now...
 Advertisements [?]Edited on Fri Feb-08-08 09:05 PM by Postman
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655

Independent sources
John Barry and Roger Charles of Newsweek wrote that Rogers acted recklessly and without due care in their July 13, 1992 article. <21> They also accused the U.S. government of a cover-up which Admiral Crowe refuted. <22> An analysis of the events by the International Strategic Studies Association described the deployment of an Aegis cruiser in the zone as irresponsible and felt that the expense of the ship had played a major part in the setting of a low threshold for opening fire.<23> The Vincennes had been nicknamed 'Robocruiser' by crew members and other US Navy ships, both in reference to its AEGIS system, and to the supposed aggressive tendencies of its captain.<2>

On November 6, 2003 the International Court of Justice ruled that "THE ACTIONS OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AGAINST IRANIAN OIL PLATFORMS on 19 October 1987 and 18 April 1988 CANNOT BE JUSTIFIED AS MEASURES NECESSARY TO PROTECT THE ESSENTIAL SECURITY INTERESTS OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA."<24> However, the case relating to the Airbus downing, "the Aerial Incident of 3 July 1988, (Islamic Republic of Iran v. United States of America)", was dropped 22 February 1996 following settlement and reparations by the United States.<25>

Three years after the incident, Admiral William J. Crowe ADMITTED on American television show Nightline that the Vincennes was INSIDE Iranian territorial waters when it launched the missiles.<26> This CONTRADICTED earlier Navy statements.

According to Commander David R Carlson of the USS Sides, the Vincennes was not under attack by Iranian forces and "the conduct of the Iranian military forces in the month preceding the incident was pointedly non-threatening."

Captain David Carlson, commander of the USS Sides, the warship stationed near to the Vincennes at the time of the incident, is reported (Fisk, 2005) to have said that the destruction of the aircraft "marked the horrifying climax to Captain Rogers' aggressiveness, first seen four weeks ago." His comment referred to incidents on June 2, when Rogers had sailed the Vincennes too close to an Iranian frigate undertaking a lawful search of a bulk carrier, launched a helicopter within 2-3 miles (3.2-4.8 km) of an Iranian small craft despite rules of engagement requiring a four-mile (6.4 km) separation, and opened fire on a number of small Iranian military boats. Of those incidents, Carlson commented, "Why do you want an Aegis cruiser out there shooting up boats? It wasn't a smart thing to do." At the time of Rogers' announcement to higher command that he was going to shoot down the plane, Carlson is reported (Fisk, 2005) to have been thunderstruck: "I said to folks around me, 'Why, what the hell is he doing?' I went through the drill again. F-14. He’s climbing. By now this damn thing is at 7,000 feet." However, Carlson thought the Vincennes might have more information, and was unaware that Rogers had been wrongly informed that the plane was diving.

According to the BBC documentary of 2002, Carlson identified IR655 as a civilian craft based on its radar signature, its 'squawk' (IFF) code, and the fact that it was ascending at low speed — an attacking military aircraft would be descending towards the Vincennes at high speed. At first Carlson thought that the 'Iranian Tomcat' identified by the Vincennes must be some other aircraft, as it was difficult for him to believe that the Vincennes crew could mistake a civilian airliner for a Tomcat. The Vincennes’ warnings were on a military radio channel, addressed to 'Iranian Tomcat'. When Carlson concluded that the Vincennes was referring to IR655 in its warning to turn away or receive fire, he urgently warned IR655 on a civilian radio frequency that it was in danger, having been mistaken for a military aircraft, and should turn away. IR655 immediately complied and changed course onto a trajectory away from the Vincennes. The Vincennes fired regardless. Carlson expressed the view that the incident was a mistake brought about by an overly-aggressive approach by the captain of the Vincennes.

Craig, Morales & Oliver, in a slide presentation published in M.I.T.'s Spring 2004 Aeronautics & Astronautics, as the "USS Vincennes Incident," commented that Captain Rogers had "an undeniable and unequivocal tendency towards what I call 'picking a fight.'" On his own initiative, Rogers moved the Vincennes 50 miles (80 km) northeast to join the USS Montgomery. An angry Captain McKenna ordered Rogers back to Abu Musa, but the Vincennes helicopter pilot, Lt Mark Collier, followed the Iranian speedboats as they retreated north, eventually taking some fire:

"…the Vincennes jumps back into the fray. Heading towards the majority of the speedboats, he is unable to get a clear target. Also, the speedboats are now just slowly milling about in their own territorial waters. Despite clear information to the contrary, Rogers informs command that the gunboats are gathering speed and showing hostile intent and gains approval to fire upon them at 0939. Finally, in another fateful decision, he crosses the 12-mile (19 km) limit off the coast and enters illegally into Iranian waters."<[br />

First off letter boy............

ruiner4u (1000+ posts)      Fri Feb-08-08 09:04 PM
Response to Original message
1. Yeah I also remember when a bomb ripped thru Pan Am over Scotland.
 US and the west vs. Iran, Libya and the mid-east..Christian vs. muslim...
State vs. State

This crap will never end when people on both sides keep digging red herrings out from the past instead of settling differences today...
Hell, I should be pissed at Italy cause the Romans enslaved Germania.. But I got over it...

WTF................

Postman (1000+ posts)     Fri Feb-08-08 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I think you miss the point...
 The US has always had a hard-on for Iran ever since the heavy-handed corrupt "Shah" was run out of the country.

Before they shot down the Iranian airbus, they were engaged in clandestine operations to entice a reaction from Iranian "boghammers" to justify a military response...

What has changed?

The only straw I've ever seen grasped at this hard is Chimpeachment

thunder rising  (1000+ posts)       Fri Feb-08-08 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
3. July 1988 Ronny Ray-gun would have given to OK to fire. Nobody expends rounds without authority.
 And Reagan would have had to give the authority. Plus, any confrontation would normally require a full investigation. Why did Reagan not demand it?

 

ruiner4u (1000+ posts)      Fri Feb-08-08 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Christ, we bombed the Chinese embassy during Kosovo...
 Why didnt Clinton demand an investigation.. cause it was an ACCIDENT.. Same with Iran Air...

Stop pissing on the military cause your pissed at Bush

For this I appluad you

 

Postman (1000+ posts)     Fri Feb-08-08 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. I agree, it was an accident. Preceeded by actions that made it possible.
 It's not pissing on the military per se. It's pissing on a foreign policy that allows for this type of shit to happen.

Per se..............well per se this ****er 

Postman (1000+ posts)     Fri Feb-08-08 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. I believe the CO of any ship has the authority to "defend" the ship without Presidential approval..
 But if you're suggesting Reagan had a policy of confronting Iran, I would agree with you.

 

[Carl]

Postman (1000+ posts)     Fri Feb-08-08 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I think you miss the point...
 The US has always had a hard-on for Iran ever since the heavy-handed corrupt "Shah" was run out of the country.

You can`t be that effin stupid.

President Carter sold out the Shah to pacify the birthing islamofacists because as the good lib he thought that they could be trusted and were just downtrodden.

They are what they are and turned on the west under the guise outrage for providing the Shah protection for his life...think 52 hostages for 444 days.

Good Lord do they not ever look at history.

[DumbAss Tanker]

What Rogers and the USS Vincennes did was pretty ****ed up no matter how you slice it, but the fact that nobody defended it as anything but a mistake and a lot of even the USN leadership admitted it was ****ed up pretty much puts the lie to it being anything beyond one asshole playing cowboy and having it go south on him.

[jukin]

First, I have to care.