Author Topic: GLOBAL WARMING: Down with the System!  (Read 5093 times)

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Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

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GLOBAL WARMING: Down with the System!
« on: January 31, 2008, 09:29:59 AM »
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Global Capitalism = Global Warming — The Case for Socialism    Printer-Friendly
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Sep 8, 2007
By Dan DiMaggio and Philip Locker   
 
The looming environmental catastrophe has provoked an urgent search for solutions to stop global warming and save the planet for future generations.

There is a growing concern even among the political and corporate elite that something is very wrong. Economist Sir Nicholas Stern, author of the recent British government report outlining the stark potential economic impact of climate change, frankly admitted that global warming “represents the biggest market failure the world has ever seen.”


Capitalism’s relentless pursuit of profit has placed the future of the earth in peril. Leading climate scientists now warn that unless drastic reductions in carbon emissions occur within the next decade, there will be a dangerous global rise in temperatures of 3 to 5 degrees Fahrenheit. Such an increase would mean a significant rise in sea levels, forcing hundreds of millions of people from their homes, as well as the loss of up to one-third of all species.


The latest reports show that the level of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere – the principal cause of global warming – is at its highest level in at least 650,000 years. Further, its rate of increase has accelerated dramatically over the last 10 years.


The melting of the arctic sea ice is also accelerating, with ice levels at their lowest on record. The severity of storms has dramatically increased, leading to disasters like Hurricane Katrina and the Asian tsunami as well as devastating floods in many areas this summer.
 
...

The Case for Public Ownership
It is clear we have the technological and scientific capacity to stop global warming. The key barrier is the capitalist system, dominated by multinational corporations and competing nation states.


This situation demands a fundamental, root and branch solution rather than superficial reforms or other band-aid solutions. The future of the planet and humanity demands we overthrow this system. This is only possible by taking the giant corporations that dominate the U.S. and world economy into public ownership under the democratic control of working people.


By taking the global economy out of the ownership and control of capitalist elites, the vital decisions of society would no longer be determined by the drive for profit. Decisions about how resources are distributed and what and how products are made, could be made democratically rather than behind closed doors in corporate boardrooms.


The use of our resources could be planned rationally, in the interests of society as a whole, rather than being subject to the anarchy of the market. This is what is called socialism.


This would clear the way to urgently convert society from an oil based economy to renewable energy and carry out a huge research program to expand upon existing technology. The $1 trillion spent globally on the military each year (over half of which goes to the U.S. military) owing to the hostility between rival capitalist countries could be used to fund this conversion, as well as to lift billions out of poverty.


Instead of employing the majority of the best scientists to work on weapons research and other harmful ends, as is currently the case, their talents could be utilized to avoid an environmental catastrophe, as well as preventing disease and other useful things...
http://www.socialistalternative.org/news/article19.php?id=598

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How to deal with global warming is one of the biggest challenges facing humanity. Last November, climate change talks in the Hague completely broke down along national fault lines. MANNY THAIN looks at the threat to the environment and why the capitalist world powers are unable to act decisively.


THE STATED AIM of the Hague talks was to decide how to cut greenhouse gas emissions to help reverse global warming. Instead of ratifying the 1997 Kyoto protocol of the 1992 United Nations (UN) climate change convention, the whole event collapsed in disarray. British minister, Michael Meacher, announced on BBC Radio Four's Today programme that a deal had been struck, unaware that the talks had faltered. Acrimonious exchanges between the US and European delegations were matched by a spat between representatives from France and Britain. Britain's attempt to compromise with the US was vetoed.

This summit was another indication that the world economic system is paralysed by national and corporate interests. A follow-up meeting held in Brussels on 18 December also collapsed. Another UN climate meeting is due to take place in Bonn at the end of May.
http://www.socialismtoday.org/55/climate_talks.html


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Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change

The United Nations Environment Programme and the World Meteorological Organisation responded to the problems of global warming by setting up the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) in 1988, involving some 2000 scientists from around the world. The IPCC has predicted that further increases in globally averaged temperatures of 1 to 3.5oC will occur by the year 2100 (others have predicted a 5oC rise by 2070). As a result of this increase, global sea levels are expected to rise by a further 15 to 19 cm. Regional weather patterns will become seriously disrupted. Britain, it is predicted, will become warmer and wetter with increased storms. Other areas of the world are likely to become desertified, still others will experience extremes of heat and flooding.. Many of the recent freak weather events throughout the world may be a portent of much worse to come.

Following the work of the IPCC the leading industrialised countries eventually agreed in principle to reduce their 1990 levels of CO2 by an average of 6% by 2010, the "Kyoto Agreement". They have yet to ratify this agreement, most of the opposition coming from the USA. Large US corporations including the oil, coal and heavy energy users have formed various "scientific" front organisations in an attempt to rubbish the evidence on global warming. The work of the IPCC is now considerably hampered by a lack of funding. Despite the fact that the levels of CO2 reduction proposed at Kyoto will only slow global warming (it is estimated that a 50% reduction of CO2 is needed), it was agreed that a credit scheme would operate, the details of which would be decided at a later date. Under the credit scheme countries like the USA could purchase the unused agreed CO2 emissions of other countries, or pay other countries to plant trees to absorb CO2 on their behalf. Japan is proposing just such a tree planting programme with Australia. In reality the planting of trees can only be a temporary solution. Once the trees mature and shed leaves or die the CO2 they have absorbed will begin to be released back into the atmosphere.

The bottom line is that the major capitalist countries are unable to deal seriously with the problem of global warming.

International Solution Required

All the predictions of future CO2 levels are based on the assumption that the disparity of consumption between western capitalism and the underdeveloped world will continue, more or less, well into the future. Apart from the obvious inequality, this is an unlikely scenario. Countries such as India are developing their industries at a considerable rate and are, not surprisingly, unwilling to curb their development in order to solve the problems created by western capitalism over the last two hundred years.

The USA produces nearly 25% of total world emissions of CO2. If the rest of the world produced per capita emissions equal to the USA then global levels of atmospheric CO2 would double every decade! The effects would be catastrophic.

World capitalism is locked into the use of cheap fossil fuels for the foreseeable future. Even the very limited Kyoto agreement has turned into a farce. The world cannot wait for the major capitalist countries to find an alternative some time in the distant future.

The problem of global warming can only be solved at an international level. The burning of fossil fuels must be drastically curbed and ultimately abandoned by about 2050. This can only be achieved by the public ownership of the major energy providers and users. Allied to this must be a revolution in the provision of cheap or free public transport. We must see an end to the gross waste of energy that characterises the current production process. An end to planned obsolescence, where products are designed for a limited life, is essential. Given current technological developments, the ability to produce products that last almost indefinitely, is entirely feasible. This can only be seriously considered if production is based on social need rather than profit. A massive investment in research and development of alternative and non-invasive energy sources and public transport on a world scale is essential.

Public Ownership of Major Energy Providers and Users

In Britain we must demand of a Labour government the re-nationalisation of transport, water, gas and electricity as the first stage of a planned energy policy. All energy consumed by industry must be monitored. Local companies must open their books on energy use. The workers in the industries together with local residents, consumer groups, environmental groups, local trade unions and other interested groups must be represented on a local environment committee overseeing the use and choice of energy in every area with the remit to stop energy wastage in all its forms. Design and production methods would come under particular scrutiny.
http://www.marxist.com/global-warming-socialism050400.htm


NOTE: Before any of you start flailing and going, "OMG!!! TNO is a commie!!!" he/she/it may well be or not be; I have not heard a particular endorsement one way or another. Thus far, TNO strikes me as a misguided do-gooder.

HOWEVER

It cannot be avoided that the issue of AGW has been co-opted by socialists as a means of destroying the free-market system and assuming control of people's lives to dictate as they see fit.

This brings us to a serious issue. As much as I love small government I cannot endorse Ron Paul because he will be beholden to the CT'ers and fascists that would be his powerbase. Ditto global warming. If the socialists of the world are pressing hard to saddle the US with money-thieving and rights-stripping treaties schemes in accordance with their marxist iseology we have to stop and ask where has the genuine concern ended and the ideologues taken over?

If we are to discuss AGW we MUST include in that dialogue the means by which our lives will not be surrendered to a system that crushes dissents, destroys economies and murdered over 100 million of its own people out of blind ambition.
According to the Bible, "know" means "yes."

Offline DixieBelle

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Re: GLOBAL WARMING: Down with the System!
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2008, 09:53:33 AM »
Yeah, EXACTLY what you said Snuggles. Never trust anyone that says the solution lies within your open wallet.
I can see November 2 from my house!!!

Spread my work ethic, not my wealth.

Forget change, bring back common sense.
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No, my friends, there’s only one really progressive idea. And that is the idea of legally limiting the power of the government. That one genuinely liberal, genuinely progressive idea — the Why in 1776, the How in 1787 — is what needs to be conserved. We need to conserve that fundamentally liberal idea. That is why we are conservatives. --Bill Whittle

Offline The Night Owl

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Re: GLOBAL WARMING: Down with the System!
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2008, 11:23:03 AM »
TNO... A misguided do-gooder.


Finally I have something I can put on my tombstone!

:-)

Ubi Dubium Ibi Libertas

Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

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Re: GLOBAL WARMING: Down with the System!
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2008, 01:31:21 PM »
TNO... A misguided do-gooder.


Finally I have something I can put on my tombstone!

:-)


Yes, someone has offered you the benefit of the doubt concering your intentions.

Now do you care to address my OP?
According to the Bible, "know" means "yes."

Offline The Night Owl

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Re: GLOBAL WARMING: Down with the System!
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2008, 01:39:31 PM »

Yes, someone has offered you the benefit of the doubt concering your intentions.

Now do you care to address my OP?

I have to go. Because your post deserves a thoughtful response, I will respond to it when I get some time. Stand by.

Ubi Dubium Ibi Libertas

Offline Chris_

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Re: GLOBAL WARMING: Down with the System!
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2008, 02:57:43 PM »
You are aware that the environmental movement is the "new home" of communism (at least in the US).......

When these zealots were forced underground by the McCarthy era, and finally the collapse of the Soviet Union, the tree huggers became their new residence.....

"Watermelons........green on the outside, red on the inside....."
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Offline Chris_

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Re: GLOBAL WARMING: Down with the System!
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2008, 03:58:46 PM »

Yes, someone has offered you the benefit of the doubt concering your intentions.

Now do you care to address my OP?

I have to go. Because your post deserves a thoughtful response, I will respond to it when I get some time. Stand by.



I remember that from John Carpenter's "Dark Star"

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Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: GLOBAL WARMING: Down with the System!
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2008, 08:08:28 PM »

Yes, someone has offered you the benefit of the doubt concering your intentions.

Now do you care to address my OP?

I have to go. Because your post deserves a thoughtful response, I will respond to it when I get some time. Stand by.



I remember that from John Carpenter's "Dark Star"



Loved that...saw it as a pre-release premier at an SF con back in the day.

 :-)
Go and tell the Spartans, O traveler passing by
That here, obedient to their law, we lie.

Anything worth shooting once is worth shooting at least twice.

Offline Chris_

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Re: GLOBAL WARMING: Down with the System!
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2008, 09:25:12 PM »

Loved that...saw it as a pre-release premier at an SF con back in the day.

 :-)
A cult classic
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Offline The Night Owl

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Re: GLOBAL WARMING: Down with the System!
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2008, 02:38:14 PM »
It cannot be avoided that the issue of AGW has been co-opted by socialists as a means of destroying the free-market system and assuming control of people's lives to dictate as they see fit.

I don't doubt that some people are using the global warming issue as a way to push a political agenda or ideology, but so what if they are? Any issue can be exploited for political reasons. What people need to do is educate themselves on the subject of global warming so that they won't be fooled by zealots on either side of the issue.

Quote
This brings us to a serious issue. As much as I love small government I cannot endorse Ron Paul because he will be beholden to the CT'ers and fascists that would be his powerbase. Ditto global warming. If the socialists of the world are pressing hard to saddle the US with money-thieving and rights-stripping treaties schemes in accordance with their marxist iseology we have to stop and ask where has the genuine concern ended and the ideologues taken over?

I think the genuine concern comes from scientists and from people like me who follow science. The idea that scientists have entered into some sort of global conspiracy to use the global warming issue as a way to push socialism on society or as a way to make money for themselves is conspiratorial nonsense. Scientists care about their work and very few would risk their reputations by falsifying it. Moreover, the number of scientists who would have to fall in line to pull of the kind of conspiracy which some believe global warming is serves to demonstrate that such a conspiracy would never work and would be revealed easily.

Quote
If we are to discuss AGW we MUST include in that dialogue the means by which our lives will not be surrendered to a system that crushes dissents, destroys economies and murdered over 100 million of its own people out of blind ambition.

In essence, you're right. There is no point in attempting to stop global warming if the action required to stop it is more damaging than the global warming itself. That is why I think that the next phase of research in global warming should focus heavily on the consequences of it and what can be done about it.

Ubi Dubium Ibi Libertas

Offline Chris_

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Re: GLOBAL WARMING: Down with the System!
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2008, 02:45:46 PM »

I think the genuine concern comes from scientists and from people like me who follow science. The idea that scientists have entered into some sort of global conspiracy to use the global warming issue as a way to push socialism on society or as a way to make money for themselves is conspiratorial nonsense. Scientists care about their work and very few would risk their reputations by falsifying it. Moreover, the number of scientists who would have to fall in line to pull of the kind of conspiracy which some believe global warming is serves to demonstrate that such a conspiracy would never work and would be revealed easily.


Methinks that you are naive as to the preponderance and intensity of extreme leftist thought among the academic community, including scientists.......historically they are among the worst Marxists in the country today.....been there, and got my Che T-shirt.....

doc
If you want to worship an orange pile of garbage with a reckless disregard for everything, get on down to Arbys & try our loaded curly fries.

Offline The Night Owl

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Re: GLOBAL WARMING: Down with the System!
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2008, 03:11:55 PM »
Methinks that you are naive as to the preponderance and intensity of extreme leftist thought among the academic community, including scientists.......historically they are among the worst Marxists in the country today.....been there, and got my Che T-shirt.....

doc

Feel free to list the names of Marxist scientists pushing the idea that global warming is the result of human activities and what they have said or written to make you believe that they're Marxists.

Everyone else, stand by for either an extremely short list or for dead silence. My money is on dead silence.

Go!
Ubi Dubium Ibi Libertas

Offline Chris_

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Re: GLOBAL WARMING: Down with the System!
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2008, 03:14:53 PM »
Methinks that you are naive as to the preponderance and intensity of extreme leftist thought among the academic community, including scientists.......historically they are among the worst Marxists in the country today.....been there, and got my Che T-shirt.....

doc

Feel free to list the names of Marxist scientists pushing the idea that global warming is the result of human activities and what they have said or written to make you believe that they're Marxists.

Everyone else, stand by for either an extremely short list or for dead silence. My money is on dead silence.

Go!

Well, there's you, Al Gore ... oh wait, you said Marxists scientists.  OK, hang on.
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Offline The Night Owl

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Re: GLOBAL WARMING: Down with the System!
« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2008, 03:16:22 PM »


Well, there's you, Al Gore ... oh wait, you said Marxists scientists.  OK, hang on.


I'm waiting. Take as much time as you need.
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Offline Chris_

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Re: GLOBAL WARMING: Down with the System!
« Reply #14 on: February 01, 2008, 03:18:04 PM »
Here is a report made up of thousands of Marxists: http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=21429&Cr=climate&Cr1=change
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Offline Doc

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Re: GLOBAL WARMING: Down with the System!
« Reply #15 on: February 01, 2008, 04:08:23 PM »
Methinks that you are naive as to the preponderance and intensity of extreme leftist thought among the academic community, including scientists.......historically they are among the worst Marxists in the country today.....been there, and got my Che T-shirt.....

doc

Feel free to list the names of Marxist scientists pushing the idea that global warming is the result of human activities and what they have said or written to make you believe that they're Marxists.

Everyone else, stand by for either an extremely short list or for dead silence. My money is on dead silence.

Go!

Seems to me that all you need to do is refer to the original post......

And please do not lecture me on things that I have observed by actually spending 3-1/2 years as a PhD candidate, and a year as a postdoc....when you can match my exposure to the academic community, I will consider your snide comments credible....

doc

« Last Edit: February 01, 2008, 04:10:43 PM by TVDOC »

Offline The Night Owl

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Re: GLOBAL WARMING: Down with the System!
« Reply #16 on: February 01, 2008, 05:38:36 PM »
Seems to me that all you need to do is refer to the original post......

And please do not lecture me on things that I have observed by actually spending 3-1/2 years as a PhD candidate, and a year as a postdoc....when you can match my exposure to the academic community, I will consider your snide comments credible....

doc

If the scientific community is as full of Marxists as you claim it is, then you should be able to name a few.

:hammer:
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Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

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Re: GLOBAL WARMING: Down with the System!
« Reply #17 on: February 01, 2008, 09:17:34 PM »
Seems to me that all you need to do is refer to the original post......

And please do not lecture me on things that I have observed by actually spending 3-1/2 years as a PhD candidate, and a year as a postdoc....when you can match my exposure to the academic community, I will consider your snide comments credible....

doc

If the scientific community is as full of Marxists as you claim it is, then you should be able to name a few.

:hammer:
No.

The point is: AGW has been coopted by the Marxist and it seems every scheme advanced by the world community--unwittingly or not--plays well into their hands.

Therefore, it is incumbent on the world community to prove to us AGW is not some Marxist scheme to assume control over people's lives and government...especially as you've already admitted, AGW lacks sufficient proof to demand drastic measures.
According to the Bible, "know" means "yes."

Offline Chris_

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Re: GLOBAL WARMING: Down with the System!
« Reply #18 on: February 01, 2008, 09:22:14 PM »
Seems to me that all you need to do is refer to the original post......

And please do not lecture me on things that I have observed by actually spending 3-1/2 years as a PhD candidate, and a year as a postdoc....when you can match my exposure to the academic community, I will consider your snide comments credible....

doc

If the scientific community is as full of Marxists as you claim it is, then you should be able to name a few.

:hammer:
The entire UN is nothing but Marxists.
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Offline Chris_

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Re: GLOBAL WARMING: Down with the System!
« Reply #19 on: February 02, 2008, 12:33:20 PM »
Seems to me that all you need to do is refer to the original post......

And please do not lecture me on things that I have observed by actually spending 3-1/2 years as a PhD candidate, and a year as a postdoc....when you can match my exposure to the academic community, I will consider your snide comments credible....

doc

If the scientific community is as full of Marxists as you claim it is, then you should be able to name a few.

:hammer:

How about we start with the "Manhattan Project", in the 1940's....... surely an astute history student such as yourself can recall the scandals surrounding the academics there, as well as the final outcome for several......

Bear in mind that I did not state that these academics were not loyal US citizens......only that they were Marxist/socialist in their political idology, as most of them are today.....

doc
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Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: GLOBAL WARMING: Down with the System!
« Reply #20 on: February 02, 2008, 05:01:17 PM »
.....Bear in mind that I did not state that these academics were not loyal US citizens......only that they were Marxist/socialist in their political idology, as most of them are today.....

doc

Socialism and its near relatives have always had an attraction to the politically-naive in the scientific community, due to the deceptively-rational-appearing aspects of these ideologies in the distribution of scarce resources.  Humans not being lab rats psychologically, and being capable of using assembled resources to go after other resources as well as to organize other humans to facilitate this, it has never actually worked out in practice, and never will. 
« Last Edit: February 02, 2008, 05:05:40 PM by DumbAss Tanker »
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