lilliputian tom thumb primitive rocks

[franksolich]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2802390

Oh my. 

The lilliputian tom thumb primitive reads some history.

I had to clean up his formatting, though.

ThomWV  (1000+ posts)      Fri Feb-01-08 09:25 AM
Original message
 
I Have Been Rocked To My Core By An Obscure Reading

I am a resident, not a native, of West Virginia. Though not born here I have grown a keen interest in the state's history none the less. Last night I ran across excerpts from the diary of a young woman who worked as a missionary during the great depression in a community not far from here. This is the Great Depression.

http://www.wvculture.org/history/journal_wvh/wvh53-5.ht...

Excerpt:

"Jan 30, 1932.

Dear Folks.

Today I have been visiting in homes to get the names of pre-school children who need milk. It looks like there will be 50 or 60 in Pursglove. The Quaker Relief Service is furnishing milk for them also.

Something else of unusual interest and pathos - happened this week. The Bates family has been receiving help from the County for some months, and the people in the neighborhood have taken pity on the 6 children who are hungry half the time. Most of the people say Mr. Bates is lazy and good for nothing, but Mr. Bates says he has a rupture and needs medical attention. We have been feeding the school children (3) noon lunches. Mr. Joe Stewart has asked Mr. Bates to get out of the Co. house because of his not working in the Pursglove mines, but he has never made any attempt to move.

Well, about a week ago Stewart gave Bates a 5 day notice that he would have to get out. Five days later Stewart sent up 3 Co. men to throw him out. So they picked up everything and dumped it out on the road. Mrs. Bates came to me crying! . . . . . . so I went down the road . . . . . but what could I do? I took her down to Crynoks office (justice of Peace) which is on the main road at Pursglove, and together we told the story. Crynok said the Co. had no legal right to "throw them out" because they had not gone thru the required legal procedure to do so - including sign put on door giving 30 days notice! etc. He suggested that the things be left where they were thrown, and that the mining Co be responsible for damages.

I felt that I had done all that was possible. Several days have elapsed since this occurred - and the furniture, etc was out in the open air (some rainy weather, too) until today when the Bates shoved it in a barn. The family is scattered around in the neighbors houses - - - with no home. The mother has a 2 mo. old baby to take care of and - - - - she herself is a physical and mental wreck at the present time."

And later this:

"Feb 2, 1933

At Home

Dearest Mother and Father,

Remember the 21 year old girl and 36 year old man whom I mentioned to you the last time I was home? The family relations had come to a crisis, and the husband had asked me to help. Lies had been going around about his innocent little girl wife - and he was half believing them. They have 4 children and are expecting a fifth. Marie was married at 13 years of age - efore she had ever menstruated. At 14 she had her first child - All but one of the four are under school age. The youngest is still wearing diapers and is a thin puny child . . . . . . and they are almost naked for clothes - - - to think a 5th one is on the way!

Marie said she'd rather die than have another child . . . . . I found out later from her that she had taken quinine, kerosine, iodine and everything she could get her hands on and nothing seemed to cause a miscarriage, so she had decided to go to the doctor and have her womb opened. Some one else on Connellsville Hill had had it done and altho it was a terriably painful process she knew nothing could be more painful than child birth. She is small. (He is large) The doctor gives nothing to the patient for this operation! and I guess it all but kills the person. When I first talked to her about it I thought to myself - - - I hardly blame her

. . . . . and I didnt say much . . . . . But that night I got to thinking about it - and I felt urged to save that unborn child. So the next day I called her down to The Shack<.> (It was the first time her husband had let her off the hill for months) He is so selfish and envious of her. He hardly allows her to speak to anyone. I called for her on the pretense of having some things for her. She can't read, and her husband had read the note to her! Imagine!"

Or how abuot this:

"Nov 9, 1934.

Dear folks.

After the D. A. R. the other night one of the ladies asked me why it was that it was so difficult to get maids from Scotts Run. She said that she didn't think all of them should be encouraged to follow higher lives - and that some of them should be encouraged to be good maids.

My - - - what a gulf between class - what little understanding there is. I had never given that angle any special consideration, but answered her as best I knew how. Of course I'm not out there to train maids! What a narrow view of life she did present. The biggest hindrance to our work is the attitude of people who think they are the very helpers!! The final note of my talk the other night was the Friendship we must give to these people if we expect them to be better citizens. If when the young folks thru personal contact with people here in town cant find a spirit of Christian citizenship how can we expect the children themselves to become good citizens. All these incidents are splendid illustrations for talks . . . . and I continue to use them right here in Morgantown."

Another:

"March 1, 1932.

Hello Everybody!

Went to one house - #28 at Davis - - to see a family named SUKAS. He walks with a cane, and is able to do no work. He has received no compensation since Oct 1931. Worked at Bunker mine. Has 2 married sons who are practically feeding him. I found out that the mines had given him compensation - then put him back to work . . . Then when he found he was unable to do the work the mining Co. felt itself released of all responsibilities. The companies have no regard for human life. They tear men to pieces then let them go to die - Its a crime that there isnt government supervision over the actions of private companies. - - no social Justice - no Christianity."

Yeah, more letters from the past, of which there are gadzillions.

Actually, one of the more interesting books I ever read was Child Welfare Cases in Cook County, Illinois, published during the early 1930s.  These were actual notes of social workers, in their own words and their own records, and was an interesting, sometimes charming, glimpse into bygone America.

Ooops, did I say "bygone" America?

skooooo (1000+ posts)      Fri Feb-01-08 09:31 AM
Response to Original message
 
1. Thanks for posting this..
 
The more things change, the more they stay the same...

Snotcicles (1000+ posts)       Fri Feb-01-08 09:31 AM
Response to Original message
 
2. Wow, what a find.

Not really.

Right here in this house in the Sandhills of Nebraska, there are boxes and boxes of letters, ancestral ones, covering the decadence of Massachusetts in the 1830s, the freshness of Pennsylvania in the 1850s, the Civil War, agricultural experiences, the Ivy League University of Pennsylvania, orphanages in Pittsburgh, New York City during the Great Depression, medical issues, educational issues, Nebraska at the height of its Glory and Power, and so on and on and on.  I came from a family of prolific writers-of-letters.

Even if the snotty primitive isn't fortunate to have come from the same sort of family, the snotty primitive can find lots and lots and lots of books, bulging the bookshelves of used book stores, with all sorts of interesting correspondence from way back when.

If the snotty primitive read some of this other stuff, the snotty primitive would find what the lilliputian tom thumb primitive found, to be rather ordinary, although yes, it's good a primitive takes a look backward once in a while, to see how far we've come, especially since January 20, 2001.

Anyway.

lonestarnot  (1000+ posts)      Fri Feb-01-08 09:33 AM
Response to Original message
 
3. Things haven't changed much have they.

I dunno.  I think things have changed a great deal, some for the better, some for the worse.

Robbien  (1000+ posts)       Fri Feb-01-08 09:33 AM
Response to Original message
 
4. We are repeating the 1920/1930 decades but back then there was at least a bit more sense of community. 

The rabid primitive needs some eddicayshun.

rwork  (1000+ posts)      Fri Feb-01-08 09:36 AM
Response to Original message
 
6. I am not sure if any people on earth suffered anymore then Americans during the Depression.I was raised by my Grandparents who went thru the Depression.They lived on $10.00 a mo., but were lucky to have a garden, milk cow, chickens etc. They were better off then a lot of people.

Aristus  (1000+ posts)       Fri Feb-01-08 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #6
 
10. The way Americans suffered during the Depression is the way most people around the world suffer every day. Many of them due to actions taken by our country. Much suffering is also alleviated due to the actions of Americans. But the policies of our corporate government cause suffering that makes the Great Depression look like a Sunday picnic.

FormerRushFan  (1000+ posts)      Fri Feb-01-08 09:47 AM
Response to Original message

8. ...the "good old days" that Republicans want to return to...

Reading things like this only disgusts me that much more when I see where the "Red States" are on the map...

UALRBSofL (377 posts)       Fri Feb-01-08 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #8
 
9. History repeats itself

And that's why we have GOT to get a democratic president.

I think the above primitive actually means opposite of what the above primitive said; this is a stellar example of another one of those primitive half-thoughts, the primitives not having the cerebral capacity to think things all the way through.

jasmine621 (849 posts)      Fri Feb-01-08 10:02 AM
Response to Original message
 
11. I remember Jesse Jackson addressing issues like this in his '84 and '88 campaigns. He tried to call more attention to this kind of poverty that still exists today. He did receive very good support from the Appalachian community in both runs. I wish he would speak out more about them even now. This kind of poverty still exists.

Oh my, and what are the primitives and Jesse Jackson doing about this?

Are the primitives and Jesse Jackson sharing their wealth with those poorer than they?

[Mary Ann]

Oh, good grief! Things have changed a lot since the '30's, even in Appalachia. These people make me TIRED with their ignorant rantings.

I guess everyone needs a hobby, and theirs just happens to be whining about non-issues.

[Mary Ann]

Right here in this house in the Sandhills of Nebraska, there are boxes and boxes of letters, ancestral ones, covering the decadence of Massachusetts in the 1830s, the freshness of Pennsylvania in the 1850s, the Civil War, agricultural experiences, the Ivy League University of Pennsylvania, orphanages in Pittsburgh, New York City during the Great Depression, medical issues, educational issues, Nebraska at the height of its Glory and Power, and so on and on and on.  I came from a family of prolific writers-of-letters.

Frank, have you ever considered organizing the family missives and having them published?

I have a mere two letters which my greatgrandfather wrote to his daughter (my grandmother) in the early 1900's. They are a treasure trove of wonderful bits of day-to-day life.

I would have been especially interested in the letters that passed between my parents during WWII; however, one of my aunts threw out my dad's letters to her in a cleaning frenzy, and my father's from my mother were probably lost after he was wounded.

I guess I come from a family of "throwers," not "savers." 

[franksolich]

Frank, have you ever considered organizing the family missives and having them published?

I have a mere two letters which my greatgrandfather wrote to his daughter (my grandmother) in the early 1900's. They are a treasure trove of wonderful bits of day-to-day life.

I would have been especially interested in the letters that passed between my parents during WWII; however, one of my aunts threw out my dad's letters to her in a cleaning frenzy, and my father's from my mother were probably lost after he was wounded.

I guess I come from a family of "throwers," not "savers." 

They are organized, madam, each of them in one of those plastic transparent sheets inside of three-ring notebooks.  The problem is, there's gaps, as the ancestors didn't save everything.

Kudos to your aunt.

During my late teenaged years, I once read a letter printed by Ann Landers, where the columnist suggested that love letters, if the two people involved were no longer in this life, be destroyed, unread.

It was about this time I "inherited" the family archives, and there were lots and lots of letters between my parents, before they were married, and two of the four sets of grandparents, before they were married.

Believe it or not, despite being a teenager, I wasn't even tempted; I removed and destroyed them, including the ancient postage stamps on the envelopes, and the ribbons binding them.

Some things are not for others to read.

[Mary Ann]

Frank, have you ever considered organizing the family missives and having them published?

I have a mere two letters which my greatgrandfather wrote to his daughter (my grandmother) in the early 1900's. They are a treasure trove of wonderful bits of day-to-day life.

I would have been especially interested in the letters that passed between my parents during WWII; however, one of my aunts threw out my dad's letters to her in a cleaning frenzy, and my father's from my mother were probably lost after he was wounded.

I guess I come from a family of "throwers," not "savers." 

They are organized, madam, each of them in one of those plastic transparent sheets inside of three-ring notebooks.  The problem is, there's gaps, as the ancestors didn't save everything.

Kudos to your aunt.

During my late teenaged years, I once read a letter printed by Ann Landers, where the columnist suggested that love letters, if the two people involved were no longer in this life, be destroyed, unread.

It was about this time I "inherited" the family archives, and there were lots and lots of letters between my parents, before they were married, and two of the four sets of grandparents, before they were married.

Believe it or not, despite being a teenager, I wasn't even tempted; I removed and destroyed them, including the ancient postage stamps on the envelopes, and the ribbons binding them.

Some things are not for others to read.

I hadn't thought about the "personal" nature of the letters; I was just thinking about the actual living history aspect. What did my dad have to say about Normandy? About the Battle of the Bulge? That kind of thing. I strongly suspect that whatever he said about what he had seen would have been greatly watered down, and interesting mostly because of what we now know about what actually happened.

But you are right that such letters should be destroyed.

[Chris_]

Frank, have you ever considered organizing the family missives and having them published?

I have a mere two letters which my greatgrandfather wrote to his daughter (my grandmother) in the early 1900's. They are a treasure trove of wonderful bits of day-to-day life.

I would have been especially interested in the letters that passed between my parents during WWII; however, one of my aunts threw out my dad's letters to her in a cleaning frenzy, and my father's from my mother were probably lost after he was wounded.

I guess I come from a family of "throwers," not "savers."

They are organized, madam, each of them in one of those plastic transparent sheets inside of three-ring notebooks.  The problem is, there's gaps, as the ancestors didn't save everything.

Kudos to your aunt.

During my late teenaged years, I once read a letter printed by Ann Landers, where the columnist suggested that love letters, if the two people involved were no longer in this life, be destroyed, unread.

It was about this time I "inherited" the family archives, and there were lots and lots of letters between my parents, before they were married, and two of the four sets of grandparents, before they were married.

Believe it or not, despite being a teenager, I wasn't even tempted; I removed and destroyed them, including the ancient postage stamps on the envelopes, and the ribbons binding them.

Some things are not for others to read.

Frank,

I respectfully disagree with your decision.  You were not the owner of those items, you were the caretaker of them.  That was an important part of your family history that should have been saved for future generations.  Those generations won't be looking salaciously at them but rather learning about their own history as well as important information about what life was like.

IMHO.

[franksolich]

Frank,

I respectfully disagree with your decision.  You were not the owner of those items, you were the caretaker of them.  That was an important part of your family history that should have been saved for future generations.  Those generations won't be looking salaciously at them but rather learning about their own history as well as important information about what life was like.

IMHO.

But Ann Landers said otherwise; there are some things that should be between two people, and two people only, forever.

That was some years ago that I did that, but I've never regretted it, although a sister-in-law got upset when she found that among other things destroyed, I had destroyed a couple of packets of love-letters between an older brother and his girlfriend, when they were first in college.

They had been carefully tied together, with a notation in the handwriting of the brother, "Love's labor lost."

Well, the deal was, my sister-in-law was not the woman involved in this correspondence, which took place a couple of years before she met my brother.  (I have no idea what happened to the first woman; these were people somewhat a great deal older than myself.)

I suspect she just wanted to "have" "something" on my brother, her husband.

As for "family history," there's thousands of other letters giving blinding illumination.

[Lord Undies]

Frank,

I respectfully disagree with your decision.  You were not the owner of those items, you were the caretaker of them.  That was an important part of your family history that should have been saved for future generations.  Those generations won't be looking salaciously at them but rather learning about their own history as well as important information about what life was like.

IMHO.

But Ann Landers said otherwise; there are some things that should be between two people, and two people only, forever.

That was some years ago that I did that, but I've never regretted it, although a sister-in-law got upset when she found that among other things destroyed, I had destroyed a couple of packets of love-letters between an older brother and his girlfriend, when they were first in college.

They had been carefully tied together, with a notation in the handwriting of the brother, "Love's labor lost."

Well, the deal was, my sister-in-law was not the woman involved in this correspondence, which took place a couple of years before she met my brother.  (I have no idea what happened to the first woman; these were people somewhat a great deal older than myself.)

I suspect she just wanted to "have" "something" on my brother, her husband.

As for "family history," there's thousands of other letters giving blinding illumination.

I too destroyed some letters.  It was a hard decision, but I don't regret it.

My mother had an slightly older sister named Janie.  Janie died the year before I was born.  Her cause of death was listed as a goiter.  The real reason she died was she had a brain tumor.

Mother lived in Dallas while Janie lived in Houston.  They exchanged letters often.  I came to hold what I think was all the letters Janie sent to my mother in the seven years before she died.  The letters were a strange read indeed.

The early letters from Janie went from being very sweet and loving to the later letters which described how much she hated my mother.  They were filled with incredible accusations and what I considered vile things.  Janie had slipped into madness.  The letters were too painful to read ever again.  The letters did not represent my mother's true relationship with her sister.

I did not want my children or grandchildren to come across the letters one day.  None of them knew my mother, for she died before they came along.  I could not stand the thought of them one day forming opinions about my mother because they read Janie's letters.  My mother loved her sister and spoke of her often to me.  Mother always said she wished I had known Janie. 

I burned the letters.

My mother died September 20, 1972.   I "talked" to my mother during a dream the night of September 22nd.  My mother let me know she was happy.  She let me know Janie was there.  Mother told me, "You'll love Janie".  Mother didn't say "You would love Janie if you were here".  I got the impression I have no choice.  I will be there too one day, and I will love Janie.   

[mamacags]

While those letters are good reading material that area is no longer anywhere close to poverty stricken.  There aren't that many mining jobs since the unions ruined the industry.  However, Morgantown is growing by leaps and bounds.  I lived near there for 30+ years.  What was a tiny town with a university and not much more is now heading toward being a metropolitan area.  You have to work at not having a job or income.

The only really poor people I knew in the rural areas there were the ones who had dads and moms that drank or shot up their paychecks or welfare checks.  I knew one family with 8 kids.  The kids basically dressed in rags because their father (who by the way had a really good education and career) did nothing but sit around and drink all day long.  Not many people can be excused for being poor.  MOST (not all but most) of the time it is just a lack of work ethics and big egos that stand in the way of people getting up on their feet.