Author Topic: Terminated (California's universal healthcare plan)  (Read 3528 times)

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Offline DixieBelle

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Terminated (California's universal healthcare plan)
« on: January 30, 2008, 11:00:39 AM »
Quote
Arnold Schwarzenegger's "universal" health-care plan died in the California legislature on Monday, in what can only be called a mercy killing. So let's conduct a political autopsy, because there are important lessons here for the national health-care debate.

It's especially useful to compare today's muted obituaries to the page-one melodrama that surrounded the Governor when he announced his plan a year ago. Endless media mash notes were bestowed on the "post-partisan" Republican trying to get something done.

 
The idea was that Mr. Schwarzenegger would set a national precedent, leading to a groundswell for reform in Washington. Not to mention that the Schwarzenegger plan was a near-copy of the one Mitt Romney pioneered in Massachusetts, and the one Hillary Clinton now favors. A leading author of the California plan was Laurie Rubiner, who directed health policy at the New America Foundation before becoming Senator Clinton's legislative director in 2005.

* * *
So much for that. The California legislature is probably the most liberal this side of Vermont, and even Democrats refused to become shock troops for this latest liberal experiment. Mr. Schwarzenegger and Democrats in the State Assembly did agree on a compromise plan in December. But on Monday, only a single member of the Senate Health Committee voted to report the bill to the full chamber -- and thus it joined a graveyard full of state "universal" health-care failures.

Like collapses in Illinois, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania, this one crumpled because of the costs, which are always much higher than anticipated. The truth teller was state Senate President Pro Tem Don Perata, who thought to ask about the price tag of a major new entitlement amid what's already a $14.5 billion budget shortfall.

An independent analysis confirmed the plan would be far more expensive than proponents admitted. Even under the most favorable assumptions, spending would outpace revenue by $354 million after two years, and likely $3.9 billion or more. "A situation that I thought was bad," Mr. Perata noted, "in fact was worse."

This reveals that liberal health-care politics is increasingly the art of the impossible: You can't make coverage "universal" while at the same time keeping costs in check -- at least without prohibitive tax increases. Lowering cost and increasing access, in other words, are separate and irreconcilable issues
.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120165320966126977.html?mod=opinion_journal_main_stories

Well worth a read. Very important lessons to be taken away...
I can see November 2 from my house!!!

Spread my work ethic, not my wealth.

Forget change, bring back common sense.
-------------------------------------------------

No, my friends, there’s only one really progressive idea. And that is the idea of legally limiting the power of the government. That one genuinely liberal, genuinely progressive idea — the Why in 1776, the How in 1787 — is what needs to be conserved. We need to conserve that fundamentally liberal idea. That is why we are conservatives. --Bill Whittle

Offline NHSparky

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Re: Terminated (California's universal healthcare plan)
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2008, 11:13:22 AM »
Just one more piece of evidence in the undeniable fact of health care--if you want to make it affordable and accessible to as many as possible, GET GOVERNMENT OUT OF IT!
“Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian.”  -Henry Ford

Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

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Re: Terminated (California's universal healthcare plan)
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2008, 11:16:31 AM »
This hurts Hillary in particular and Obama in general.
According to the Bible, "know" means "yes."

Offline jtyangel

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Re: Terminated (California's universal healthcare plan)
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2008, 11:53:37 AM »
This hurts Hillary in particular and Obama in general.

You are assuming those that would be the major beneficiaries of national healthcare both read the WSJ and/or give a shit if it would put a burden on other taxpayers. With the way I've seen some people blow the EITC on all sorts of new gadgets and assorted junk, I can tell you, most could care less as long. The question is are there enough voters to outrank the greedy and irresponsible?

Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

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Re: Terminated (California's universal healthcare plan)
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2008, 11:55:54 AM »
This hurts Hillary in particular and Obama in general.

You are assuming those that would be the major beneficiaries of national healthcare both read the WSJ and/or give a shit if it would put a burden on other taxpayers. With the way I've seen some people blow the EITC on all sorts of new gadgets and assorted junk, I can tell you, most could care less as long. The question is are there enough voters to outrank the greedy and irresponsible?
Hey...this went down in flames in California.

CALIFORNIA!

 :o
According to the Bible, "know" means "yes."

Offline jtyangel

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Re: Terminated (California's universal healthcare plan)
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2008, 11:57:20 AM »
This hurts Hillary in particular and Obama in general.

You are assuming those that would be the major beneficiaries of national healthcare both read the WSJ and/or give a shit if it would put a burden on other taxpayers. With the way I've seen some people blow the EITC on all sorts of new gadgets and assorted junk, I can tell you, most could care less as long. The question is are there enough voters to outrank the greedy and irresponsible?
Hey...this went down in flames in California.

CALIFORNIA!

 :o

I know snuggles, I just always wonder if rational people can outpace the cult of the entitled.

Offline NHSparky

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Re: Terminated (California's universal healthcare plan)
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2008, 11:58:18 AM »
Sadly, even those that label themselves as conservative seem to be in line with their hands outstretched of late.
“Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian.”  -Henry Ford

Offline Lauri

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Re: Terminated (California's universal healthcare plan)
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2008, 11:58:43 AM »
This hurts Hillary in particular and Obama in general.

You are assuming those that would be the major beneficiaries of national healthcare both read the WSJ and/or give a shit if it would put a burden on other taxpayers. With the way I've seen some people blow the EITC on all sorts of new gadgets and assorted junk, I can tell you, most could care less as long. The question is are there enough voters to outrank the greedy and irresponsible?

whats interesting is the voters in California never even got to vote on this; the legislators couldnt find a way to pay for it.

Hilary and Obama need to be forced to explain over and over how they will pay for national health care, from now until November.

Offline jtyangel

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Re: Terminated (California's universal healthcare plan)
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2008, 12:00:54 PM »
Sadly, even those that label themselves as conservative seem to be in line with their hands outstretched of late.

Pandering...sadly what I see is conservative officials trying to compete with liberals because they know the cultural shift when I think if more of these folks would bother to show the failures or substandard care in other countries and debate real numbers, it would go a long way in pulling back the push for this among the public. You are right, Sparky, in that it is not being challenged enough by the politicians who SHOULD be challenging it, namely 'conservatives'.

Offline Chris_

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Re: Terminated (California's universal healthcare plan)
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2008, 12:02:43 PM »
This hurts Hillary in particular and Obama in general.

You are assuming those that would be the major beneficiaries of national healthcare both read the WSJ and/or give a shit if it would put a burden on other taxpayers. With the way I've seen some people blow the EITC on all sorts of new gadgets and assorted junk, I can tell you, most could care less as long. The question is are there enough voters to outrank the greedy and irresponsible?
Hey...this went down in flames in California.

CALIFORNIA!

 :o

But not for the right reasons, which means it merely goes dormant.  If the conditions are right, it WILL be back.

This had to do with California infighting and the massive egos in our government.
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Offline Chris_

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Re: Terminated (California's universal healthcare plan)
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2008, 12:03:32 PM »
This hurts Hillary in particular and Obama in general.

You are assuming those that would be the major beneficiaries of national healthcare both read the WSJ and/or give a shit if it would put a burden on other taxpayers. With the way I've seen some people blow the EITC on all sorts of new gadgets and assorted junk, I can tell you, most could care less as long. The question is are there enough voters to outrank the greedy and irresponsible?
Hey...this went down in flames in California.

CALIFORNIA!

 :o

I know snuggles, I just always wonder if rational people can outpace the cult of the entitled.

More people in the wagon than pulling it.
If you want to worship an orange pile of garbage with a reckless disregard for everything, get on down to Arbys & try our loaded curly fries.

Offline jtyangel

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Re: Terminated (California's universal healthcare plan)
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2008, 12:07:17 PM »
This hurts Hillary in particular and Obama in general.

You are assuming those that would be the major beneficiaries of national healthcare both read the WSJ and/or give a shit if it would put a burden on other taxpayers. With the way I've seen some people blow the EITC on all sorts of new gadgets and assorted junk, I can tell you, most could care less as long. The question is are there enough voters to outrank the greedy and irresponsible?
Hey...this went down in flames in California.

CALIFORNIA!

 :o

I know snuggles, I just always wonder if rational people can outpace the cult of the entitled.

More people in the wagon than pulling it.


A good analogy...if only one person was brave enough to use it out in the open.

Offline Chris_

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Re: Terminated (California's universal healthcare plan)
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2008, 12:11:39 PM »
This hurts Hillary in particular and Obama in general.

You are assuming those that would be the major beneficiaries of national healthcare both read the WSJ and/or give a shit if it would put a burden on other taxpayers. With the way I've seen some people blow the EITC on all sorts of new gadgets and assorted junk, I can tell you, most could care less as long. The question is are there enough voters to outrank the greedy and irresponsible?
Hey...this went down in flames in California.

CALIFORNIA!

 :o

I know snuggles, I just always wonder if rational people can outpace the cult of the entitled.

More people in the wagon than pulling it.


A good analogy...if only one person was brave enough to use it out in the open.
I am 1/4" away from leaving California and taking my 6-figure salary with me.  I don't have kids -- I calculated one time it would take something like 10-12 families to replace my taxes, not including the infrastructure cost.  We already are losing the upper middle class. Many cashed in their houses during the last boom of the last few years, took their winnings and moved to the other states.
If you want to worship an orange pile of garbage with a reckless disregard for everything, get on down to Arbys & try our loaded curly fries.

Offline DixieBelle

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Re: Terminated (California's universal healthcare plan)
« Reply #13 on: January 30, 2008, 12:16:20 PM »
^If you can keep your standard of living and income, then go. I know I would. Or learn Spanish.  :uhsure:
I can see November 2 from my house!!!

Spread my work ethic, not my wealth.

Forget change, bring back common sense.
-------------------------------------------------

No, my friends, there’s only one really progressive idea. And that is the idea of legally limiting the power of the government. That one genuinely liberal, genuinely progressive idea — the Why in 1776, the How in 1787 — is what needs to be conserved. We need to conserve that fundamentally liberal idea. That is why we are conservatives. --Bill Whittle

Offline jtyangel

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Re: Terminated (California's universal healthcare plan)
« Reply #14 on: January 30, 2008, 12:17:12 PM »
This hurts Hillary in particular and Obama in general.

You are assuming those that would be the major beneficiaries of national healthcare both read the WSJ and/or give a shit if it would put a burden on other taxpayers. With the way I've seen some people blow the EITC on all sorts of new gadgets and assorted junk, I can tell you, most could care less as long. The question is are there enough voters to outrank the greedy and irresponsible?
Hey...this went down in flames in California.

CALIFORNIA!

 :o

I know snuggles, I just always wonder if rational people can outpace the cult of the entitled.

More people in the wagon than pulling it.


A good analogy...if only one person was brave enough to use it out in the open.
I am 1/4" away from leaving California and taking my 6-figure salary with me.  I don't have kids -- I calculated one time it would take something like 10-12 families to replace my taxes, not including the infrastructure cost.  We already are losing the upper middle class. Many cashed in their houses during the last boom of the last few years, took their winnings and moved to the other states.

I'm aware...many of them moved to Arizona. We were seeing the influx as we were leaving there. We watching home values soar as Californians moved in.

I have a good friend who is thinking of moving back to Ca. Santa Rosa I think. She grew up there, she went to USC, and she's actually fairly conservative. I'm not sure if she knows what she's getting into, but she's been living in the Portland area for a while so perhaps she's used to the changes seeing as the whole west coast is littered with that type of thinking.

Offline NHSparky

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Re: Terminated (California's universal healthcare plan)
« Reply #15 on: January 30, 2008, 12:19:00 PM »
I am 1/4" away from leaving California and taking my 6-figure salary with me.  I don't have kids -- I calculated one time it would take something like 10-12 families to replace my taxes, not including the infrastructure cost.  We already are losing the upper middle class. Many cashed in their houses during the last boom of the last few years, took their winnings and moved to the other states.

And I'm one of them.  Even in my present personal state, my portion of the house proceeds went a long way towards buying a brand new home on over an acre in a state with NO income or sales tax.

People here don't know how good they have it, even with the God-awful property taxes.
“Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian.”  -Henry Ford

Offline Lauri

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Re: Terminated (California's universal healthcare plan)
« Reply #16 on: January 30, 2008, 12:30:15 PM »
This hurts Hillary in particular and Obama in general.

You are assuming those that would be the major beneficiaries of national healthcare both read the WSJ and/or give a shit if it would put a burden on other taxpayers. With the way I've seen some people blow the EITC on all sorts of new gadgets and assorted junk, I can tell you, most could care less as long. The question is are there enough voters to outrank the greedy and irresponsible?
Hey...this went down in flames in California.

CALIFORNIA!

 :o

I know snuggles, I just always wonder if rational people can outpace the cult of the entitled.

More people in the wagon than pulling it.


A good analogy...if only one person was brave enough to use it out in the open.
I am 1/4" away from leaving California and taking my 6-figure salary with me.  I don't have kids -- I calculated one time it would take something like 10-12 families to replace my taxes, not including the infrastructure cost.  We already are losing the upper middle class. Many cashed in their houses during the last boom of the last few years, took their winnings and moved to the other states.

I'm aware...many of them moved to Arizona. We were seeing the influx as we were leaving there. We watching home values soar as Californians moved in.

I have a good friend who is thinking of moving back to Ca. Santa Rosa I think. She grew up there, she went to USC, and she's actually fairly conservative. I'm not sure if she knows what she's getting into, but she's been living in the Portland area for a while so perhaps she's used to the changes seeing as the whole west coast is littered with that type of thinking.

Portland is a moonbat mecca... she'd probably be better off in California..

Offline Chris_

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Re: Terminated (California's universal healthcare plan)
« Reply #17 on: January 30, 2008, 12:32:09 PM »
I am 1/4" away from leaving California and taking my 6-figure salary with me.  I don't have kids -- I calculated one time it would take something like 10-12 families to replace my taxes, not including the infrastructure cost.  We already are losing the upper middle class. Many cashed in their houses during the last boom of the last few years, took their winnings and moved to the other states.

And I'm one of them.  Even in my present personal state, my portion of the house proceeds went a long way towards buying a brand new home on over an acre in a state with NO income or sales tax.

People here don't know how good they have it, even with the God-awful property taxes.

I am thinking Texas only because it pretty central so I won't have the long commutes, it doesn't have Income tax and I have spent several years there off and on, so I know it.

The only down side is it is full of Texans ;)
If you want to worship an orange pile of garbage with a reckless disregard for everything, get on down to Arbys & try our loaded curly fries.

Offline DixieBelle

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Re: Terminated (California's universal healthcare plan)
« Reply #18 on: January 30, 2008, 12:33:44 PM »
^aww! I love Texas. I would trade this hellhole for Texas in a hot minute. And yes, Texans are a special breed. I married one and gave birth to one. They grow on ya! :-)
I can see November 2 from my house!!!

Spread my work ethic, not my wealth.

Forget change, bring back common sense.
-------------------------------------------------

No, my friends, there’s only one really progressive idea. And that is the idea of legally limiting the power of the government. That one genuinely liberal, genuinely progressive idea — the Why in 1776, the How in 1787 — is what needs to be conserved. We need to conserve that fundamentally liberal idea. That is why we are conservatives. --Bill Whittle

Offline Chris_

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Re: Terminated (California's universal healthcare plan)
« Reply #19 on: January 30, 2008, 12:35:01 PM »
^aww! I love Texas. I would trade this hellhole for Texas in a hot minute. And yes, Texans are a special breed. I married one and gave birth to one. They grow on ya! :-)

Or out of ya ;)

Ah, I like Texans. I like to tease 'em to knock them down a peg from time to time.
If you want to worship an orange pile of garbage with a reckless disregard for everything, get on down to Arbys & try our loaded curly fries.

Offline DixieBelle

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Re: Terminated (California's universal healthcare plan)
« Reply #20 on: January 30, 2008, 12:35:38 PM »
^ROFL! Gotta love a state that's so damned proud of it's shape.
I can see November 2 from my house!!!

Spread my work ethic, not my wealth.

Forget change, bring back common sense.
-------------------------------------------------

No, my friends, there’s only one really progressive idea. And that is the idea of legally limiting the power of the government. That one genuinely liberal, genuinely progressive idea — the Why in 1776, the How in 1787 — is what needs to be conserved. We need to conserve that fundamentally liberal idea. That is why we are conservatives. --Bill Whittle

Offline Chris_

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Re: Terminated (California's universal healthcare plan)
« Reply #21 on: January 30, 2008, 12:55:54 PM »
^aww! I love Texas. I would trade this hellhole for Texas in a hot minute. And yes, Texans are a special breed. I married one and gave birth to one. They grow on ya! :-)

Or out of ya ;)

Ah, I like Texans. I like to tease 'em to knock them down a peg from time to time.
Never ask a man if he's from Texas.  If he is, he'll tell you.  If not, there's no need to embarass him.   :cheersmate: :uhsure:
If you want to worship an orange pile of garbage with a reckless disregard for everything, get on down to Arbys & try our loaded curly fries.

Offline SilverOrchid

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Re: Terminated (California's universal healthcare plan)
« Reply #22 on: January 30, 2008, 01:06:06 PM »
Yeah, a lot of people here are really upset about that.  :-) But I am sure it will "be back", just reworded and most likely if a Democrat wins this November. This really is the People's Republic of California but it isn't so bad sometimes.



Offline Lauri

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Re: Terminated (California's universal healthcare plan)
« Reply #23 on: January 30, 2008, 01:36:52 PM »
^aww! I love Texas. I would trade this hellhole for Texas in a hot minute. And yes, Texans are a special breed. I married one and gave birth to one. They grow on ya! :-)

Or out of ya ;)

Ah, I like Texans. I like to tease 'em to knock them down a peg from time to time.
Never ask a man if he's from Texas.  If he is, he'll tell you.  If not, there's no need to embarass him.   :cheersmate: :uhsure:


I'm a native and I've never heard that one.. :-)

Offline Attero Dominatus

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Re: Terminated (California's universal healthcare plan)
« Reply #24 on: January 30, 2008, 05:08:44 PM »
This hurts Hillary in particular and Obama in general.

You are assuming those that would be the major beneficiaries of national healthcare both read the WSJ and/or give a shit if it would put a burden on other taxpayers. With the way I've seen some people blow the EITC on all sorts of new gadgets and assorted junk, I can tell you, most could care less as long. The question is are there enough voters to outrank the greedy and irresponsible?

whats interesting is the voters in California never even got to vote on this; the legislators couldnt find a way to pay for it.

Hilary and Obama need to be forced to explain over and over how they will pay for national health care, from now until November.

If the people never got to vote on this in California then I doubt we will get to vote on it if we get Hillarycare, Obamacare or Romneycare. And it is obvious how they plan to pay for it. Ultra-high tax rates and cutting down the military funding.

Hillarycare in particular will make Britain's NHS look safe.
Those who would trade their liberty for temporary security will get neither. --Benjamin Franklin.