primitives going native

[franksolich]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2789479

Native American, that is.

silverlib  (1000+ posts)      Tue Jan-29-08 10:19 PM
Original message
 
Time again for A Cherokee Proverb

This post from bluebear came to mind (again) tonight for obvious reasons -

An old Cherokee is teaching his grandson about life. "A fight is going on inside me," he said to the boy. "It is a terrible fight and it is between two wolves. One is evil - he is anger, envy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, and ego. The other is good - he is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion, and faith.

This same fight is going on inside you - and inside every other person, too."

The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked his grandfather, "Which wolf will win?"

The old Cherokee simply replied, "The one you feed."

(This proverb always calms me during the "storms" at DU - So thanks once more bluebear)

Now, there's no reason to question the authenticity of this ostensible Cherokee folklore, but such things are universal in the human experience, and one finds the same such wisdom in Yiddish stories, in medieval morality plays, in the Bible, in Asian peasant legends.

There's no reason to question the authenticity of this tale, but I had to point that out, in case anyone remembers the "Hopi Indian Prayer" that some doofus primitive posted in December 2004--when P-J Comix in his most-excellent DUmmie FUnnies featured that campfire, it was the most widely-read DUmmie FUnnies until some months later when Doug's ex-wife started that one thing.

Anyway.

InvisibleTouch  (1000+ posts)     Tue Jan-29-08 10:23 PM
Response to Original message
 
2. I've been dancing with those two wolves...

 ...for a very long time. Always good to get a reminder. Thanks!

aquart  (1000+ posts)      Tue Jan-29-08 10:29 PM
Response to Original message
 
4. Here's Russian one from my grandmother:

The family was destitute. Members were dying from starvation. Finally, only the father, son, and old grandfather were left. It was a hard decision, so hard, but the father finally made it. He gave his ancient father, his son's grandfather, a blanket and told him he had to leave, that they could not feed him anymore. The old man nodded. He took the blanket and stepped out into the snow.

The boy saw. He saw his grandfather leave. He raced out into the snow after him. He took out his knife, and cut the blanket in half. Then he returned to his father carrying the torn half of the blanket.

"What did you do? What did you do?" His father cried. "That blanket was all he had!"

"I had to," said his son.

"Why?" begged his father.

"I'm saving it for you," said the son.

Now, I'm familiar with this one, in the original Russian version.....it also exists in Yiddish folk-tales, in medieval morality plays, in the Bible, in Asian peasant folklore, in tales from deepest Africa.....

roguevalley  (1000+ posts)       Tue Jan-29-08 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #4
 
5. wonderful. thank all of you. nice to see wisdom after the day I've had. Bless all of you.

tech3149  (1000+ posts)      Tue Jan-29-08 10:45 PM
Response to Original message
 
6. It's funny that the most enlightened truths are known by cultures that are considered inferior.

I dunno what the touching primitive is talking about, unless it's projection.

I for one never considered, for example, the Cherokee culture or the Russian peasant culture "inferior" with any other culture, as Christianity frowns on this way of thinking.  God, and only God, is the Judge of all things.

They're just different cultures than this one, nothing more.  That's all.

I think the touching primitive is projecting.

[Carl]

An old Cherokee is teaching his grandson about life. "A fight is going on inside me," he said to the boy. "It is a terrible fight and it is between two wolves. One is evil - he is anger, envy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, and ego. The other is good - he is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion, and faith.

The problem the DUmmies have is that they almost all embrace and seek the first while in their deluded and closed minds believe it to be the second one.

[franksolich]

The problem the DUmmies have is that they almost all embrace and seek the first while in their deluded and closed minds believe it to be the second one.

Yeah, I've been watching the primitives since early February 2001; I haven't yet seen the primitives engage in much joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion, and faith.

In fact, one needs a magnifying-glass attached to a microscope, to find any of it.

[Chris_]

The problem the DUmmies have is that they almost all embrace and seek the first while in their deluded and closed minds believe it to be the second one.

Yeah, I've been watching the primitives since early February 2001; I haven't yet seen the primitives engage in much joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion, and faith.

In fact, one needs a magnifying-glass attached to a microscope, to find any of it.

What, calling for pain and death for those who disagree with you isn't a sign of joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion, and faith?

Who'da thunk it?

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

The other [wolf] is good - he is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion, and faith.

If the wolf has to fight an unrelenting war against his evil opposite we are left to wonder by what terms DUmmies endorse their equivocated pacifism.

[Lord Undies]

tech3149  (1000+ posts)      Tue Jan-29-08 10:45 PM
Response to Original message
 
6. It's funny that the most enlightened truths are known by cultures that are considered inferior.

This would be funny only if these "enlighten truths" were missing from our own culture, which they certainly are not.  All  these found "enlighten truths" from other cultures are nothing more than remarks made by considering the basic human condition and then expounding upon them.  There is nothing mystical or all-knowing about anyone recognizing these common "enlightened truths". 

[franksolich]

This would be funny only if these "enlighten truths" were missing from our own culture, which they certainly are not.  All  these found "enlighten truths" from other cultures are nothing more than remarks made by considering the basic human condition and then expounding upon them.  There is nothing mystical or all-knowing about anyone recognizing these common "enlightened truths".

Yeah, really.

The human experience has always been a pretty much generic universal thing.

A lot of these stories attributed to one person or one society or one culture can be found in all other people, all other societies, all other cultures, too, with only the name and the place and the time different.

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

tech3149  (1000+ posts)      Tue Jan-29-08 10:45 PM
Response to Original message
 
6. It's funny that the most enlightened truths are known by cultures that are considered inferior.

This would be funny only if these "enlighten truths" were missing from our own culture, which they certainly are not.  All  these found "enlighten truths" from other cultures are nothing more than remarks made by considering the basic human condition and then expounding upon them.  There is nothing mystical or all-knowing about anyone recognizing these common "enlightened truths". 

The Good Samaritan and the Prodigal Son go above these mundane truths.

That is why they are despised.

[jukin]

Question to DUmmys.  Which one do you think the DUmp feeds?

[Chris_]

This would be funny only if these "enlighten truths" were missing from our own culture, which they certainly are not.  All  these found "enlighten truths" from other cultures are nothing more than remarks made by considering the basic human condition and then expounding upon them.  There is nothing mystical or all-knowing about anyone recognizing these common "enlightened truths".

Yeah, really.

The human experience has always been a pretty much generic universal thing.

A lot of these stories attributed to one person or one society or one culture can be found in all other people, all other societies, all other cultures, too, with only the name and the place and the time different.

You know, I have an interest in human mythology (I especially love creation myths because of the familiar threads that seem to run through all of them). It's really just an offshoot of my obsession with Star Wars, which was heavily influenced by the writings of Joseph Campbell. Anyway, I think the reason these primitives embrace all these stories from other traditions is that they're desperately searching for something to believe in...at the very least to give them some relevance. Joseph Campbell lamented that we no longer include Biblical literature (or even stories from the Greeks & Romans) as part of our education. When you carry these stories with you everyday it gives perspective, a handbook if you will, for knowing right from wrong and making good choices. These "...bits of information...which have to do with the themes that have supported human life, built civilizations, and informed religions...have to do with deep inner problems, inner mysteries, inner thresholds of passage, and if you don't know what the guide-signs are along the way, you have to work it out yourself."

Unfortunately, the DUmmies have no core so working these things out is impossible for them. When you grab bits of philosophy from here, a god or goddess from there, and a couple of morality tales from over there, cobble them together and call it wisdom, how can you be anything but confused? I think it's probably why they long so for a nanny state...if someone else makes all the decisions for them it saves them the angst of realizing they have no moral backbone, no direction. They have enough issues with depression.

Cindie

[Lord Undies]

You know, I have an interest in human mythology (I especially love creation myths because of the familiar threads that seem to run through all of them). It's really just an offshoot of my obsession with Star Wars, which was heavily influenced by the writings of Joseph Campbell. Anyway, I think the reason these primitives embrace all these stories from other traditions is that they're desperately searching for something to believe in...at the very least to give them some relevance. Joseph Campbell lamented that we no longer include Biblical literature (or even stories from the Greeks & Romans) as part of our education. When you carry these stories with you everyday it gives perspective, a handbook if you will, for knowing right from wrong and making good choices. These "...bits of information...which have to do with the themes that have supported human life, built civilizations, and informed religions...have to do with deep inner problems, inner mysteries, inner thresholds of passage, and if you don't know what the guide-signs are along the way, you have to work it out yourself."

Unfortunately, the DUmmies have no core so working these things out is impossible for them. When you grab bits of philosophy from here, a god or goddess from there, and a couple of morality tales from over there, cobble them together and call it wisdom, how can you be anything but confused? I think it's probably why they long so for a nanny state...if someone else makes all the decisions for them it saves them the angst of realizing they have no moral backbone, no direction. They have enough issues with depression.

Cindie

You have brough up a good point.  During the DUmmies effort to rid themselves of anything connected to morality and conservatism, they have thrown away a lot of their humanity.  It causes them to spend time in wonderment over some of the things we normal people consider common knowledge.