Author Topic: Strep Throat or Sore Throat....  (Read 10764 times)

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Offline Inga

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Strep Throat or Sore Throat....
« on: December 05, 2008, 11:53:49 AM »
Something I've tried is 1 lemon sliced in 1/2 ,load up with salt,get a fork broke up pulp and squeeze down. Do this twice with the same half. It's tart but it works. .2 times daily. This alkaline the body and removes mucous,also kills out infection.

Take a steamy epsom salts bath with eucalyptus oil or bath salts,2 times daily.

You could do a ginger/cayenne compress to throat.Sooths the pain and increases circulation to the throat.
Chicken soup and broths helps remove mucous.
There will always be "Battles" to fight.

Offline Chris

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Re: Strep Throat or Sore Throat....
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2008, 08:47:12 PM »
If I'm eating lemon and salt, it better come in a martini glass... :-)

Everyone around me was horribly sick at work today.  I will probably be dead soon.
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Offline Inga

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Re: Strep Throat or Sore Throat....
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2008, 10:53:08 AM »
If I'm eating lemon and salt, it better come in a martini glass... :-)

Everyone around me was horribly sick at work today.  I will probably be dead soon.

Then you and the bunch at work needs to go for Martinis at lunch and supper.With extra lemon and salt.

Last night I just put squeezed lemon juice in a shoot glass, sprinkled heavy salt. and shoot it. It works especially if you can the sore throat early.

Happy Drinking :cheersmate:
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Offline Patriot Lady

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Re: Strep Throat or Sore Throat....
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2009, 11:45:16 AM »
Lemon is great because it is an acid. Howeve, cider vinegar gargle is better because the microbes hate the pH of cider vinegar.
Also- many times we do not have a "sore" throat. We may have swollen glands that are causing the throat to feel sore. No matter, milking the (lymph)glands on the side of the neck will help to alleviate any swelling and will also help the throat to clear out pathogens.
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Offline Chris_

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Re: Strep Throat or Sore Throat....
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2009, 01:27:14 PM »
Simple sore throat maybe, but a Strep infection requires treatment with antibiotics, or it can lead to a systemic infection, septicemia and death.......

Herbal/natural remedies are OK for some minor problems, however reliance on them can be deadly........also many herbal remedies are toxic in higher doses, or can interreact with existing medication that a person might be taking.......

Herbal remedies are no substitute for good medical advice........

Don't want to rain on anyone's parade here, but I have had friends die from reliance on "holistic medicine"  it is no substitute for the real thing........

doc
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Re: Strep Throat or Sore Throat....
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2009, 02:04:02 PM »
Simple sore throat maybe, but a Strep infection requires treatment with antibiotics, or it can lead to a systemic infection, septicemia and death.......

Herbal/natural remedies are OK for some minor problems, however reliance on them can be deadly........also many herbal remedies are toxic in higher doses, or can interreact with existing medication that a person might be taking.......

Herbal remedies are no substitute for good medical advice........

Don't want to rain on anyone's parade here, but I have had friends die from reliance on "holistic medicine"  it is no substitute for the real thing........

doc
You are so right BUT most people know when they have strepped throat. People also die from their reliance on Western Medicine- especially pharmaceuticals. Over 2.2 million people are injured every year by prescription drugs alone and over 20 million from unnecessary prescriptions for antibiotics that were prescribed annually for viral infections.
Holistic Medicine may well be considered the real thing- it has neen here for eons, it came first. All have stood the test of time. Most pharmaceuticals have not! Most have not made it through one generation.
It is up to the individual to learn and be a wise healthcare consumer.
Also- no one should self medicate- both herbs and pharmaceuticals are not to be toyed with.
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Herbal remedies are no substitute for good medical advice........
A trained herbalist can also offer sound medical advice.
Christina Dr.OM.
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Offline Chris_

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Re: Strep Throat or Sore Throat....
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2009, 02:30:23 PM »
You are so right BUT most people know when they have strepped throat. People also die from their reliance on Western Medicine- especially pharmaceuticals. Over 2.2 million people are injured every year by prescription drugs alone and over 20 million from unnecessary prescriptions for antibiotics that were prescribed annually for viral infections.
Holistic Medicine may well be considered the real thing- it has neen here for eons, it came first. All have stood the test of time. Most pharmaceuticals have not! Most have not made it through one generation.
It is up to the individual to learn and be a wise healthcare consumer.
Also- no one should self medicate- both herbs and pharmaceuticals are not to be toyed with. A trained herbalist can also offer sound medical advice.
Christina Dr.OM.

I would argue that most people cannot determine whether they have a bad sore (irritated) throat or strep, unless a culture is done.

I will grant that holistic medicine has been with us for eons, however science advances.......we no longer chew willow bark (holistic) when we can take an aspirin tablet........(unless you enjoy the taste of willow bark)  I will further agree that many holistic remedies are the basis of a  number of modern pharmaceuticals........but why not use the improved technology rather than live in the bronze age.

I will further grant that there are many deaths from incorrectly prescribed prescription medications, however there are VASTLY more people that are saved or their lives greatly improved by their use.......your statement is really a logical fallacy......

I have no bone to pick with holistic practitioners, I just don't believe that it is a substitute for modern medicine, and for some situations holistic solutions are likely appropriate........however, most people that gravitate to holistic medicine tend to use it as a substitute, rather than a supplement to their total medical care......that is a mistake that can be fatal......

YMMV

doc
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Offline Chris_

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Re: Strep Throat or Sore Throat....
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2009, 02:49:31 PM »
As an aside......I really only jumped into this thread because of the title, where strep is mentioned........I simply wanted to point out that there is no known holistic "cure" for a virulent bacillus infection.......(except possibly consuming vast quantities of bread mould)

I just considered it a "liability" issue..........had you confined the title to just "sore throat", I wouldn't be here.....

Carry on.....

doc
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Offline Patriot Lady

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Re: Strep Throat or Sore Throat....
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2009, 04:57:21 PM »
I would argue that most people cannot determine whether they have a bad sore (irritated) throat or strep, unless a culture is done.

I will grant that holistic medicine has been with us for eons, however science advances.......we no longer chew willow bark (holistic) when we can take an aspirin tablet........(unless you enjoy the taste of willow bark)  I will further agree that many holistic remedies are the basis of a  number of modern pharmaceuticals........but why not use the improved technology rather than live in the bronze age.

I will further grant that there are many deaths from incorrectly prescribed prescription medications, however there are VASTLY more people that are saved or their lives greatly improved by their use.......your statement is really a logical fallacy......

I have no bone to pick with holistic practitioners, I just don't believe that it is a substitute for modern medicine, and for some situations holistic solutions are likely appropriate........however, most people that gravitate to holistic medicine tend to use it as a substitute, rather than a supplement to their total medical care......that is a mistake that can be fatal......

YMMV

doc
Thank you- we shall carry on.
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I would argue that most people cannot determine whether they have a bad sore (irritated) throat or strep, unless a culture is done.
Again- this is true if you want a difinitive diagnosis. Cider vinegar has been used for centuries to kill all bacteria. . Not everyone has health insurance or money for scripts. So, it is a good way to determine the severity of the sore throat. If the vinegar does not work, then one must go for a culture. I was remiss is stating that. 
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but why not use the improved technology rather than live in the bronze age.
I am not sure if we should call pharmaceuticals "improved" technologies. Yes, these wonder drugs can do a lot but they are all have "side effects" (toxicity effects) and become abused. If one can do something in a more natural way and allow the body to do the work that it is so equipped to do, we would fair better. Our bodies have innate abilities to heal and medicinals disallow this potential.
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I will further grant that there are many deaths from incorrectly prescribed prescription medications, however there are VASTLY more people that are saved or their lives greatly improved by their use.......your statement is really a logical fallacy
As far as I know- there are NO deaths from natural medicine. Yes, many are saved with emergency medicine (best of the AMA)- there is not dispute there. However, I am not sure about the rest. Lives may be saved , but at what price? Again- when you only have a hammer, the solution is a nail and you must admit that meds and surgery are the only hope for the AMA. Every med causes a problem and to reiterate, we have not seen the true efficacy of any med other than aspirin. When one toys with nature- a price is usually paid.
The ultimate would be integration. There is no one medicine that does it all. No one has all of the answers but one thing can be said- the human race got to this point because of natural medicine. The Native Americans respected and knew that the earth had all of the answers and it still does today.

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I just don't believe that it is a substitute for modern medicine,
That is like saying that the light bulb is a substitute for the sun. It is, but the sun came first and is not an alternative, as semantics is telling us.
In closing- I do try to encourage people to start to understand natural medicine because the day is coming when we may need to return to the days of using the earth for all of its resources. If we need to leave our homes or seek other shelters, we cannot carry a bottle of medicine with us. For one thing. the supply is limited, one needs a  prescription. Doctors will not prescribe meds to keep in a survval kit and meds expire.
In regard to the other post-
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I simply wanted to point out that there is no known holistic "cure" for a virulent bacillus infection.......
Yes there are many herbal cures for bacterial and viral infection. You may have firured this out by now- I am a Doctor of Oriental Medicine and with that title- 5 years of herbal training. I am also a Nurse Practitioner.
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Offline Chris_

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Re: Strep Throat or Sore Throat....
« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2009, 05:47:01 PM »
this is true if you want a difinitive diagnosis. What other type of diagnosis would anyone want? Cider vinegar has been used for centuries to kill all bacteria. Get back to me when you can deal with an agressive Staph infection that is bloodborne  . Not everyone has health insurance or money for scripts. So, it is a good way to determine the severity of the sore throat. If the vinegar does not work, then one must go for a culture. I was remiss is stating that.  I am not sure if we should call pharmaceuticals "improved" technologies. Yes, these wonder drugs can do a lot but they are all have "side effects" (toxicity effects) As do holistic meds, some are quite toxic and become abused. If one can do something in a more natural way and allow the body to do the work that it is so equipped to do, we would fair better. Don't disagree Our bodies have innate abilities to heal and medicinals disallow this potential.As far as I know- there are NO deaths from natural medicine. Yes, many are saved with emergency medicine (best of the AMA)- there is not dispute there. However, I am not sure about the rest. Well......get back to me when your treatments can deal with a patient with HIV with a "T cell" count of zero, or a Hodgkins Lymphoma patient with no other hope  Lives may be saved You bet they are , but at what price? Again- when you only have a hammer, the solution is a nail and you must admit that meds and surgery are the only hope for the AMA. Every med causes a problem and to reiterate, we have not seen the true efficacy of any med other than aspirin. When one toys with nature- a price is usually paid. You seem to have a real issue with the AMA.....I'm not a fan of the AMA for aa variety of reasons, none of them having to do with the practice of medicine........I wonder about that......The ultimate would be integration. There is no one medicine that does it all. No one has all of the answers but one thing can be said- the human race got to this point because of natural medicine. The Native Americans respected and knew that the earth had all of the answers and it still does today.Which is why their average life expectancy back in the day was about 35.
That is like saying that the light bulb is a substitute for the sun. It is, but the sun came first and is not an alternative, as semantics is telling us. Now you are just being rediculous.
In closing- I do try to encourage people to start to understand natural medicine because the day is coming when we may need to return to the days of using the earth for all of its resources. If we need to leave our homes or seek other shelters, we cannot carry a bottle of medicine with us. For one thing. the supply is limited, one needs a  prescription. Doctors will not prescribe meds to keep in a survval kit Mine certainly does....and meds expire.
In regard to the other post- Yes there are many herbal cures for bacterial and viral infection. Again, let me know when can deal with a "T cell zero" patient, or one with viral menningitis You may have firured this out by now- I am a Doctor of Oriental Medicine and with that title- 5 years of herbal training. I am also a Nurse Practitioner.

Comments included above........

doc
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Offline Patriot Lady

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Re: Strep Throat or Sore Throat....
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2009, 06:54:47 PM »
This is not a competition or contest to see which medicine wins. Are you an MD?
~In Oriental Medicine- we do not need a definitive diagnosis.
~ yes, some herbs are toxic but a trained practitioner know them well. Just as an MD knows interactions etc.
~ Herbs are abused? Now you are being ridiculous. When was the last time you saw a clinic for herb rehab?
~ Actually, we are quite effective with HIV and T cell's. In fact I was trained in a major medical center here and we tested Residents (blood taken before and after Acupuncture) needling just one point. This one point will double the T-cell count. This has been researched repeatedly. Aids respond very well to herbs. One of my professors was gay and had many of his friends come in for treatments. This is why I teach as much as I can. All of my patients learn that they have choices but they must know what the choices are. What I say here, is a tool for learning also.
~ we both know that Md's should not prescribe for a survival kit and we also know that meds will expire. Also, one bottle will last for one round of an illness. Tell me what people will do when their meds run out??????? Tell me what will happen to meds that bake in the sun all day or get wet? Who will diagnose them when they are hiding in a cave. Who will do the throat culture? People have to learn about natures' provisions!
~ I am not ridiculous in thinking that we need to get back to basics. People call the sun "alternative" as well as natural medicine. When we term ancient medicine as alternative, we perpetuate the idea that convention in healing is (which is presently centered on our modern technological medicine) is the start or first. Nature, herself, should be our starting points when determining what is alternative. There is nothing very new-fandangled about any of thesee conventions of the natural world. We should be right in regarding them as the original tools for healing but then we might have to look at synthetic chemical drugs and technological medicine as secondary, alternative forms instead. Many people are thinking the same way. Hence the unprecedented growth of Oriental Medicine in this country.
~ I said that the AMA had good points. I take issue when they get closed minded and think that they are the alpha and omega. As I noted, I have my feet in both worlds and know very well what both medicines can do. Mutual respect is important and sharing without judgement is crucial if we really want to heal patients!
Lastly- Om is over 6,000 years old- quite a track record!
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Offline Chris_

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Re: Strep Throat or Sore Throat....
« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2009, 06:56:36 PM »
Patriot Lady,

Upon review, my comments above appear somewhat snarky, and if you interpret then so, I apologize.......I am not in any way attempting to denigrate your practice, or homeopathy in general, it is simply that I am a scientist, albeit retired, and I have personally witnessed great advances in knowledge during my lifetime, particularly in my chosen field.  Therefore I subscribe to the concept that because a methodology is old, does not automatically make it good, or even valid anymore.

In my field alone, 90% of the body of knowledge and understanding that exists today is less than twenty years old, and if myself and my colleagues were still clinging to the theories that we were taught in various schools even a few decades ago, we would seem to be members of the "flat earth society".  Those theories have been determined to be obsolete, and consigned to the dustbin of history.......where they belong.

I know that homeopathy works to an extent, however I must temper that understanding with some healthy skepticism, for example, my next door neighbor (a really nice guy) is a Chiropractor, and he thinks that his methodology can treat everything from migraines to brain tumors.......and realistically, he might be able to treat the symptoms, but to assume a cure would be foolhardy.

Medical science is not a product of the AMA, it is the product of thousands of scientists, chemists, engineers, and physicians laboring in research labs and centers all over the world, with state of the art equipment, and to simply dismiss that cumulative knowledge and understanding as "new and untested" is patently unfair, and frankly dangerous.

Now that we have decoded the human genome, we are on the threshold of a vast trove of knowledge, and potential cures for diseases that would have been considered science fiction ten years ago.......in a strange way, I guess you could say that these genetic cures are a form of "homeophathy", as they all evolve from the understanding of the basic building blocks of the human body itself......but they result from pure science, not methodology that is thousands of years old.

This is your forum, and I really don't belong here, as a scientist........and am sorry for the intrusion, which I attempted to cover in a post above.

Good luck....

doc
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Offline Patriot Lady

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Re: Strep Throat or Sore Throat....
« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2009, 07:23:07 PM »
Goodness- do not be sorry. I love debate and ours went well. I must say that Chiropractors are having a really bad time with all of their new notions. They have become disenfranchised and also loosing patients to Oriental Medicine practitioners. They have left their scope of practice and say the darndest things :)
Homeopathy was the main medicine in this country until John D. Rockefeller Single-handedly destroyed the prevailing medical model and created the new one -- allopathic medicine.  The primary result of this activity was that his crude oil, worth perhaps a nickel per gallon, suddenly, turned into medical drugs, was worth millions of dollars per gallon.  The initial changes in medicine seemed good, but the sinister and hidden purpose behind his millions of dollars of donations -- they are what we see today in the modern medical model -- based on drugs that don't cure, but increase the disease of mankind. At that point, he literally threw all other medical modalities out of this country.
See- I am a scientist and then I am not. Currently, scientists see things as black and white, I do not. Natural practitioners see beyond the black and white and think in a different way. That does not make us wrong or right- only different.
The research that is currently going on is wonderful- BUT- we are trying to cure diseases that did not exist before. hmmmmmmmmmmm. Or if they did exist, either the body beat the odds or the patient died.
Our bodies are fully equipped to defeat cancer and many other maladies. When we take meds that do not cure anything, we tell the body to literally shut up and perform as the medicinal dictates. No one can name one med that cures a thing. They all stop symptoms. Antibiotics can kill the pathogen but leave the body with more problems.
America has to learn to relax and let nature help. Yes, the meds will always be there but if we decrease the stress levels we will need less meds. I truly believe that stress is the cause of 95% of our illnesses.
People that ascribe to natural medicine will generally change their lifestyles and have less need for pharmaceuticals. They are more willing to go the extra mile and try to prevent disease. "pill poppers" are just that! They know that a med lurks around every corner and take less responsibility for their health. (for the most part)
See, there is room for both of us on this planet.
On another note-- one thing that I do detest about modern medicine is that they treat the body as a machine. We, as natural healers, treat the soul too. That is what I love about what I do! So much illness comes from the soul!
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Offline franksolich

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Re: Strep Throat or Sore Throat....
« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2009, 07:29:41 PM »
TVDOC is a gentleman and a scholar, Patriot Lady; it's just that old-timers here have to get used to newcomers, after which the road gets easier.

There was once a program on National Public Radio (NPR), which I used to read transcripts, not being able to hear the programs themselves, "Speaking of Faith," or "Faith in American Life;" the title shifts over the years.

Anyway, the commentator interviewed lots and lots of physicians, psychiatrists, and psychologists over the years, some of them rather prominent in their fields.  And they all, including the self-described "agnostics", said in some words or another, that there can be no healing without God being involved, somehow.

If God's not in there, drugs and other sorts of therapy just don't work.

I agree wholeheartedly with this, based upon my own lifetime of observation, and so I have to agree that medicine involves much more than mere science.
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Re: Strep Throat or Sore Throat....
« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2009, 07:51:28 PM »
Yes sir- Right on! It is all in the energy- it is all around us but we do not see. We may see God in a different way's- but "god's" energy is all encompassing. So many are trying to tap into the earth now. Yoga, Tai-Qi, Qi gong etc. Some are awakening to the fact that we need more~ that the course that we are on is not all that there is.
I laugh at those that want to save the earth- most do not know what the earth is really about. They never got their hands dirty with soil. Unfortunately, we have lost touch with the earth. We are plugged into all sorts of electronics and data- but it is the earth that keeps us!
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TVDOC is a gentleman and a scholar
Thank you but I do see that already!
Glad to be here!
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Offline franksolich

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Re: Strep Throat or Sore Throat....
« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2009, 08:00:56 PM »
Yes sir- Right on! It is all in the energy- it is all around us but we do not see. We may see God in a different way's- but "god's" energy is all encompassing. So many are trying to tap into the earth now. Yoga, Tai-Qi, Qi gong etc. Some are awakening to the fact that we need more~ that the course that we are on is not all that there is.

I laugh at those that want to save the earth- most do not know what the earth is really about. They never got their hands dirty with soil. Unfortunately, we have lost touch with the earth. We are plugged into all sorts of electronics and data- but it is the earth that keeps us!

Thank you but I do see that already!

Glad to be here!

You're telling me; living out here in the remote lonely Sandhills of Nebraska, I suspect I'm appreciative of nature and how it keeps us healthy, although admittedly I at times get tired of nature; there's just too much of it, and sometimes one wishes for a smaller world.

There's few things like watching a thunderstorm approaching the Sandhills--from more than 200 miles away--an ordinary run-of-the-mill thunderstorm--and once it gets to one's area, in five minutes it packs more punch than a million Hiroshimas.
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Offline Thor

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Re: Strep Throat or Sore Throat....
« Reply #16 on: December 05, 2009, 10:14:57 AM »
Patriot Lay has a point. If the world falls to shit and collapses, who are we to rely on?? Doctors?? Many of them are in the Pharmaceutical companies pockets. Big Pharma wines and dines MDs, ODs, etc. Then there's the affordability issue. Will Doctors once again be taking chickens in trade for their services in today's age?? Perhaps, but that's unlikely. There are many natural remedies/ cures for most common ailments/ diseases.
Do they ALWAYS work?? NO, but neither do many prescription meds. Now, ask yourself this;" why is it that we, as Americans, pay more for prescription medications than most any other country??" It's pretty simple... Big Pharma sees BIG profit from us Americans, whereas they only see marginal profit from other countries.
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Offline Celtic Rose

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Re: Strep Throat or Sore Throat....
« Reply #17 on: December 05, 2009, 10:20:17 AM »
Patriot Lay has a point. If the world falls to shit and collapses, who are we to rely on?? Doctors?? Many of them are in the Pharmaceutical companies pockets. Big Pharma wines and dines MDs, ODs, etc. Then there's the affordability issue. Will Doctors once again be taking chickens in trade for their services in today's age?? Perhaps, but that's unlikely. There are many natural remedies/ cures for most common ailments/ diseases.
Do they ALWAYS work?? NO, but neither do many prescription meds. Now, ask yourself this;" why is it that we, as Americans, pay more for prescription medications than most any other country??" It's pretty simple... Big Pharma sees BIG profit from us Americans, whereas they only see marginal profit from other countries.

We actually end up funding most of their research and development because other countries don't allow them to charge what is really a fair market value for their products.  For every success, there are millions of dollars lost in research that didn't work out as planned.  When countries place cost limits, they can't recoup their money, so the extra gets tacked on to the price of American medication.

I do believe that natural remedies can be helpful, but I am very thankful we have pharmaceutical solutions as well.

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Re: Strep Throat or Sore Throat....
« Reply #18 on: December 05, 2009, 11:21:37 AM »
I do believe that natural remedies can be helpful, but I am very thankful we have pharmaceutical solutions as well.

While I agree with you, madam, I have to agree more with Thor.

Our infrastructure, both physical and societal, is fragile, and things are breaking down.

Despite the promised infusion of government money for new drugs, which of course brings with it governmentally-imposed limitations, it's obvious that we're somewhat headed for a shortage of pharmaceutical drugs--five years, ten years, fifteen years, down the road.

In which case "fortitude" will be about the only remedy for anything, available to most.

Such a shortage could be caused not only by governmental misuse, abuse, and corruption, but other things.  Things such as civil disorder, or a nuclear war breaking out on the other side of the world (India-Pakistan, Israel-Iran, Poland/Ukraine-Russia, Japan-North Korea), or some sort of terrorist attack (a suitcase bomb in New York City, a 13-gallon trash bag of cyanide dropped into the water supply of Chicago, a mysterious man-made epidemic erupting from San Francisco).....and of course political corruption, can disrupt research, supply, and distribution.

It's probably not a good thing to take the availability of pharmaceuticals for granted.

And that might not be a bad thing, overall; when all things are considered.

It's dated now, from 1982, but there's a book, Cured to Death, which analyzed the consequences of "drug therapy" under the British National Health System.  It should be no wonder England isn't what England used to be.

Much else has happened since the book first came out; and for the worst.

Given that America has been consistently abdicating its moral, social, and historical obligation to be a light unto the world--to stop the killing, to free the oppressed, to bestow liberty upon the enslaved--since Woodrow Wilson withdrew American troops from Russia in 1919, some sort of apocalypse (not the Apocalypse) is inevitable, and such a catastrophe would inevitably entail chaos, confusion, disruption, disorder in our own society, bringing us back down to the level of "civilization" as it existed here during Colonial times, or in Tudor England.

Those who will survive, prosper and flourish. include those who need no pharmaceuticals; those who cull from the Wisdom of the Ages remedies for ailments that are based upon natural things, and common sense.

Medicine in 16th century England or 17th century New England had much nonsense in it, but it was not all wrong; some things were exactly right, and less injurious than drugs currently in use.  Our general knowledge of the history of medicine is pretty good; it should be a simple matter to separate the quackeries of the time from the authentically useful things.

I however disagree with Thor on one point he made; it is not the pharmaceutical companies whom one should blame for our overdependence on drugs, but rather the western consumer, who demands "quick and easy and painless" cures.  One needs to put the horse before the cart here.
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Offline Thor

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Re: Strep Throat or Sore Throat....
« Reply #19 on: December 05, 2009, 01:45:02 PM »

I however disagree with Thor on one point he made; it is not the pharmaceutical companies whom one should blame for our overdependence on drugs, but rather the western consumer, who demands "quick and easy and painless" cures.  One needs to put the horse before the cart here.

I will concede that point.
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Re: Strep Throat or Sore Throat....
« Reply #20 on: December 05, 2009, 02:18:21 PM »
Patriot Lay has a point. If the world falls to shit and collapses, who are we to rely on?? Doctors?? Many of them are in the Pharmaceutical companies pockets. Big Pharma wines and dines MDs, ODs, etc. Then there's the affordability issue. Will Doctors once again be taking chickens in trade for their services in today's age?? Perhaps, but that's unlikely. There are many natural remedies/ cures for most common ailments/ diseases.
Do they ALWAYS work?? NO, but neither do many prescription meds. Now, ask yourself this;" why is it that we, as Americans, pay more for prescription medications than most any other country??" It's pretty simple... Big Pharma sees BIG profit from us Americans, whereas they only see marginal profit from other countries.

I would argue that if the world falls to shit and collapses, one of several scenarios can occur.......most certainly physicians will practice their art for chickens, eggs, or a sack of potatoes.......their knowledge is not going to automatically disappear, and the next generation of physicians will work alongside them to learn the art, nor will the knowledge required to manufacture drugs disappear, some of which are quite simple to make in a crude lab.  The more sophisticated drugs will, of course, run out (but understanding how to make them will always be with us), and very simply humanity's life expectancy will revert from it's present 78 years or so, slowly backwards until some equilibrium is reached between the practice of medicine, and the resources available to practice it.  Likely that equilibrium will occur at a level that approximates the development of Penicillin in the 1930's (which even I can make in my kitchen).......this single drug alone has likely been responsible for saving (or extending) more lives than all of the holistic remedies in the history of mankind.  

As an aside, just for Patriot Lady's information (not to be snarky) Penicillin (the first "wonder" drug) is NOT manufactured using any form of petroleum product......as she referred to upthread, as though the drug industry was founded on the basis of finding a way to make an oil baron wealthy.

That which has been learned cannot be unlearned, unless mankind is utterly destroyed, and in that event.....the point is moot. In the event of some great cataclysm, I suspect that knowing the resourcefulness of our highly developed brains, we will find a way to rebuild our lives and our medical science rather quickly, since we are not exactly starting from scratch.......and life will go on......we won't spend the rest of human existence huddling in caves, being tended to by witch doctors........that is ridiculous.....

doc
« Last Edit: December 05, 2009, 08:29:22 PM by TVDOC »

Offline Patriot Lady

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Re: Strep Throat or Sore Throat....
« Reply #21 on: December 05, 2009, 04:16:38 PM »
Great conversation!
Yes, we are luck to have pharmaceuticals, but we rely on them far too much! The Hudson river is full of antidepressant byproducts and antibiotics-- We have a problem Houston!
Not only with the water, but how many people are on meds that the water is saturated with them?
I am not a research scientist, but as far as I can see, petroleum ether is used to make penicillin.
If anyone is interested- look up some info on Rockefeller and see how he manipulated the system. http://members.iimetro.com.au/~hubbca/rockefeller.htm
Also- another bit of wisdom re: how we got to this point in Medicine may be found in http://www.whale.to/b/ruesch.html  and http://www.whale.to/b/mullins32.html.
These articles are real eye openers. The Flexner commission is a whale of a tale!
We are not only sold a bill of goods with the general government we are literally duped when it comes to medicine. There is a money trail to everything in the USA
« Last Edit: December 05, 2009, 04:18:10 PM by Patriot Lady »
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Re: Strep Throat or Sore Throat....
« Reply #22 on: December 05, 2009, 06:49:37 PM »
Great conversation!
I am not a research scientist, but as far as I can see, petroleum ether is used to make penicillin.

The only "petroleum" that is anywhere near the process of making Penicillin would be that natural gas (or electricity) used in maintaining the temperature of the mould cultures........as I said above, I'm no chemist, but the process to make a crude form of Penicillin can easily be done in any home kitchen, or in a cave for that matter........now that we know how to do it, it isn't hard........much simpler and safer than the clowns trying to cook methamphetamine.......

If you would like, I can give you a description of the process.....

doc
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Re: Strep Throat or Sore Throat....
« Reply #23 on: December 05, 2009, 07:00:27 PM »
Of course- I would like that. However, why do I see petroleum ether in the formula?
 I do understand how we can easily make penicillin in the kitchen, but I am going to presume that the synthetic forms that are used today, do contain a bit more than the original.
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Re: Strep Throat or Sore Throat....
« Reply #24 on: December 05, 2009, 07:06:18 PM »
The Flexner commission is a whale of a tale!
We are not only sold a bill of goods with the general government we are literally duped when it comes to medicine. There is a money trail to everything in the USA

I'm no great fan of the Rockefeller's, either the present or past generations, however they tend to be capitalists, and there is nothing really wrong with that........they seized opportunities and made fortunes from them.......the manner in which they did that was sometimes unscrupulous, but life isn't fair, and if they didn't do what they did with or without government help, someone else would have.......I can't fault them for making money.  The same kind of generalizations can be made for the Astors, the Mellon's, the Vanderbilts, and on and on ad nauseum........these folks may have been "robber barons", but you can't discount the fact that they, and their expertise built this country into what it is today, in one way or another.....

Drug companies make profits......sometimes they make HUGE profits......and sometimes they sustain equally huge losses (Thalidimide comes to mind), they spend billions on product development, and often spend millions developing "orphan" drugs to fight diseases that are so rare that they will never see a return on their investment......those are business decisions, and they are first and foremost, businesses.

I simply do  not believe that there is any great conspiracy between the drug companies to negatively impact the population, and to consider the Pharma industry a "monopoly" is simply ludicrous.  It's ownership worldwide is simply too diverse.....

doc
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