Author Topic: Third Episcopal Diocese Splits From National Church  (Read 2495 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Chris_

  • Little Lebowski Urban Achiever
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 46845
  • Reputation: +2028/-266
Third Episcopal Diocese Splits From National Church
« on: November 10, 2008, 08:02:18 AM »
Quote
Third Episcopal Diocese Splits From National Church

QUINCY, Ill. —  A third theologically conservative diocese has broken away from the liberal Episcopal Church in a long-running dispute over the Bible, gay relationships and other issues.

The Diocese of Quincy, Ill., took the vote at its annual meeting that ends Saturday.

Two other dioceses — San Joaquin, based in Fresno, Calif., and Pittsburgh — have already split off. Next weekend, the Diocese of Fort Worth, Texas, will vote whether to follow suit.

The three breakaway dioceses are aligning with the like-minded Anglican Province of the Southern Cone, based in Argentina, to try to keep their place in the world Anglican Communion. The 77-million-member Anglican fellowship, which includes the U.S. Episcopal Church, has roots in the missionary work of the Church of England.

Meanwhile, National Episcopal leaders are reorganizing the seceding dioceses with local parishioners who want to stay in the church. Complex legal fights have already started in San Joaquin over control of millions of dollars in diocesan property and assets.

MORE

You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination. (NKJ, Leviticus 18:22)

If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them. (NKJ, Leviticus 20:13)

They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator-- who is forever praised. Amen. Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. (NIV, Romans 1:25-27)

Seems clear enough to me.


If you want to worship an orange pile of garbage with a reckless disregard for everything, get on down to Arbys & try our loaded curly fries.

Offline Eupher

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 24894
  • Reputation: +2828/-1828
  • U.S. Army, Retired
Re: Third Episcopal Diocese Splits From National Church
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2008, 09:02:47 AM »
The Presbyterian Church USA is also incurring some of the same type of issues, though not yet to the point where the church splits.

Presbyterians have split and come together many times over theological and secular issues. The most recent reunification occurred in 1983 with the "northern" and "southern" groups burying the hatchet. Other branches still exist, including the Cumberland Presbyterian Church and the Presbyterian Church of America.

Anyway, the most current attempt by the General Assembly to change the Book of Order (the official "how to" of the church - it in no way does it replace the Bible) to accommodate practicing gays and lesbians as ordained officers of the church (both pastors and lay people) is once again gathering steam.

It appears that a great number of the current pastors are somewhat liberal in their thinking and don't seem to have a problem with gays serving as ordained officers. (My own pastor is one of these.)

But the General Assembly can't just make the change, wipe its collective hands, and walk away to plant kisses on the foreheads of their gay friends. To make that change, individual presbyteries have to approve said change and to coin a phrase, "that ain't gonna happen."

But it is interesting and compelling to see the gradual, persistent encroachment of this kind of philosophy wind its way through the church and gain more and more acceptance. Older, more conservative members die off and when they are replaced (and that in itself happens less and less frequently as the church falls in its membership), they are replaced by the more "progressive" thinkers. These people tend to look on the Book of Leviticus and similar biblical passages as being more allegorical than directive.

Just today I read that Margaret Sanger was arrested in 1916 for obscenity when she advocated birth control.

I'm wondering if, 90 years from now, those poor bastards who are still on this earth will look upon gays and lesbians in the same manner that I do:

"Love the person, hate the behavior"

Or, if they're going to look upon this whole gay and lesbian thing as if it's a completely normal thing to do.
Adams E2 Euphonium, built in 2017
Boosey & Co. Imperial Euphonium, built in 1941
Edwards B454 bass trombone, built 2012
Bach Stradivarius 42OG tenor trombone, built 1992
Kanstul 33-T BBb tuba, built 2011
Fender Precision Bass Guitar, built ?
Mouthpiece data provided on request.

Offline debk

  • Topic Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12473
  • Reputation: +467/-58
Re: Third Episcopal Diocese Splits From National Church
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2008, 10:50:28 AM »
I basically left the Episcopal Church not long after I was divorced in the early 90's. It's not the church that I grew up in.

I left because I felt the Church had left it's base. Part of it may be the part of the country I live in. There is a Baptist Church on every corner....yet only 6 Episcopal Churches and 5 Catholic. To me, it's like the Episcopal Church ...and the Catholic to a certain extent....are trying to be more "popular" and are leaving the ritualism behind by modernizing the Mass to give it more appeal.

If I want "appeal" ...I'll go to the mall!

The whole issue with ordaining a practicing gay Bishop.....sends me over the edge.

I want Church to be what is was when I grew up. I like the formality, the ritualism, the sacred quiet atmosphere during Mass. I grew up in a "high" Episcopal Church, much like what the Catholic Church is now.

I attend the Catholic Church here. It's not as formal as I would like it....but it makes me content.
Just hand over the chocolate...back away slowly...far away....and you won't get hurt....

Save the Earth... it's the only planet with chocolate.

"My therapist told me the way to achieve true inner peace is to finish what I start. So far I've finished two bags of M&M's and a chocolate cake. I feel better already." – Dave Barry

A balanced diet is chocolate in both hands.

Offline Chris_

  • Little Lebowski Urban Achiever
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 46845
  • Reputation: +2028/-266
Re: Third Episcopal Diocese Splits From National Church
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2008, 11:25:19 AM »
A similar  split is (quietly) occurring within the "Disciples of Christ" Christian Church........A number of Christian churches in our area have dissociated themselves from the "Disciples of Christ" denomination due to their stand on gays and several other fundamental scriptural issues.....

doc
If you want to worship an orange pile of garbage with a reckless disregard for everything, get on down to Arbys & try our loaded curly fries.

Offline franksolich

  • Scourge of the Primitives
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 58693
  • Reputation: +3068/-173
Re: Third Episcopal Diocese Splits From National Church
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2008, 03:35:41 PM »
Watch the United Methodist Church, currently one of the most liberal denomilnations around.

A year or so ago, when they had a General Assembly, participants selected to represent each group within it, 40% of the delegates were from western Africa.

At the time, 40% of all United Methodists in the world were western African; in fact, while membership from western societies has dwindled, membership from western Africa has skyrocketed.

I'm not sure how often the United Methodist Church has a General Assembly--perhaps every three years or something--but it was predicted at the next one, western Africans would be the majority, rather than just a substantial minority.

The western Africans don't care for this gay marriage stuff, this women ministers stuff, this peace-at-any-price stuff, this intolerance for God stuff, this government-replacing-God stuff.  They made plenty of noise about it.

I think we're going to see a shift in the United Methodist Church, from being one of the most liberal denominations to one more, uh, traditional.

Western Africans want that old time religion, onward Christian soldiers, stuff; stuff on which the Methodist Church was originally founded, and stuff that helped the Methodist Church flourish and prosper until the liberals took it over (after which it began declining).

Rome of course moves at the speed of a glacier--perhaps the reason for its sheer endurance--and as there aren't many here who are Roman Catholic, I wonder if anyone has noticed something. 

In his three and a half years as Pope, Benedict XIV has issued exactly one--exactly one--message to those of European extraction (i.e., European and North American Roman Catholics).  He's talked a lot, but he's said very little to the "traditional" base of the Catholic Church.  In fact, he's actually talked to the Islamic world more than he's talked to Europe and North America combined.

Pope John XXIII (1958-1963) was perhaps the last "European pope," as his successor, Paul VI, broke open new doors by paying attention to Asians; and then of course John Paul II was all over the place.

When it comes to defining Christianity, Christianity seems to instinctively moving southward and eastward, growing by leaps and bounds in non-European, non-North American, places.  We're counting for less and less, but it's our own fault.

I'll bet this drives the malicious cartoon character primitive and the nocturnally foul one rabid with rage, that Christianity is here to stay, and will be around long after all of us are dust, and dust of dust.

God Is, and there's not a damned thing the anti-Gods can do about it.

Christianity is Eternal
apres moi, le deluge

Offline Sam Adams

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 679
  • Reputation: +40/-19
Re: Third Episcopal Diocese Splits From National Church
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2009, 05:58:18 AM »
In his three and a half years as Pope, Benedict XIV has issued exactly one--exactly one--message to those of European extraction (i.e., European and North American Roman Catholics).  He's talked a lot, but he's said very little to the "traditional" base of the Catholic Church. 

Leaders in the church should teach. The popes ain't worth much. We don't need 'em.