Author Topic: I used to be right wing, and here's how I stopped.  (Read 3311 times)

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Offline CactusCarlos

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I used to be right wing, and here's how I stopped.
« on: January 26, 2008, 05:03:00 PM »
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2769777

Quote
I used to be right wing, and here's how I stopped.
Posted by baby_mouse on Sat Jan-26-08 12:48 PM

Not a full-on racist, disaster-victim hating, homophobic monstrous right wing git like they are these days. Just "ordinary" right wing. You know. "Normal". Not like those weirdo, obsessive left wing people who made EVERYTHING political.

It's amazing, really amazing, now, when I look back on it. And I can give some pointers on what changed me, and some principles by which I now try to govern my thoughts (not always successfully... brains are messy things...) which are as follows...:

1. Long discussions into the night with a really well-educated, highly intelligent, friendly, logical anarchist. She was brilliant. She wasn't right about everything but she opened my eyes to the fact that there are very few issues on which "everyone obviously agrees", which was one of my favourite catch-phrases. She was *meticulously truthful* in her attempts to describe the world around her. I had to respect that and I had to acknowledge that she knew a good deal more about her subject than I did. I respect knowledge.

2. The decision to give the other side a fair go. I believed in balance and the "truth being somewhere in the middle" (AAARRGGGHH!). A revolutionary communist that I was friends with pointed out that if that I really DID believe that the truth lay somewhere in the middle, how come I would constantly bring out right wing talking points while discussing politics with *him*? I had no answer. I had to go and think. The thoughts produced revelations.

3. I was a Christian. Not a booga-booga anti-evolutionary Christian (although my natural arse-headedness led me to question the theory and put forward what I thought were "alternatives", while knowing absolutely nothing about it), but the sort of nice, friendly Christian who had decided that going out of one's way to look after one's fellow human beings being wasn't a trivial or obvious thing that everyone just kinda knew, but in fact somewhat central to existence and worth paying more attention to than one might simply feel comfortable with. I also thought that the ubiquitous nature of religious systems propagating exactly that sort of idea had helped to trivialise it by processing it into content-light slogans that had become commonplace and easy to ignore. So I decided I was a Christian (a "proper" one, like C S Lewis). A friend pointed out that actually my idea was not a Christian idea but MY idea, he remarked that he thought it very unlike anything he'd heard any Christians say, he also thought it a good deal more interesting and useful than anything Christianity had to say. He also observed that most of the other major religions perhaps had a tendency to trivialise altruism and that reacting this to by choosing Christianity, particularly given that I had recognised its ritualising of behaviours that required active conscious analysis, not the endless reiteration of already outdated dogma, was perhaps not the best expression of my idea.

I had no answer. I had to go and think.

The thoughts produced revelations.

4. After having a good look at my own thoughts I realised that there was a process going on within me during my arguments with people, particularly about politics. I would come out with (what I thought were clever) counterpoints not because the counterpoint had any particular value to me as an idea, but because, essentially I was "bluffing" the conversation's way towards the "middle". A point aired in the Left's favour, particularly where it seemed emotional or divisive (I had hit upon that oh-so-common secret revelation of adolescent intellectuals (a lot of people on the left never really experience this, particularly if they have had sensible liberal parents, but it's *very* common on the right) that no-one really knew the *complete* picture of anything (HA! Projection, thy name is Republican) and that people's political opinions were, of course, governed by tribalism (why couldn't people SEE this?) and one should maintain an objective view of crowds because that was the only way to remain true to oneself and objective and unswayed by mass-movement rhetoric. The possibility that several thousand people could independently and intelligently come to the same inescapable conclusion regarding an issue didn't occur to me, it wasn't clever enough. Obviously they were being led around by their "subconscious" by mythical tropes... . God. What a prat I was...) had to be countered because what they didn't *understand*, you see, is that communism and fascism were two sides of the same coin, so "left" and "right" were too, so people interested in politics (particularly on the left) were, ergo, sheep being led around by unconscious desires (probably to be Christians).

Essentially my initial *emotional reaction* to an expression of a political opinion was to oppose it, no matter what it was, because politics was a bit of a mug's game, a sort of surrogate religion. How... TRANSCENDENT I was!

Oh, dear. What a bunch of crap.

I dismantled that one by myself, I'm relatively happy to say, although I'm profoundly freaked and ashamed by the realisation later in life that my brain was playing that sort of trick on me (note my distancing of myself from my brain). And now I see stark, clear evidence of exactly the same useless structure in right wing brains everywhere, particularly among the so-called "moderates". Spouting "overtone" crap like "you're being elitist" or "you're being extreme". Extreme??? So what? The world is full of extreme things. Sometimes the solutions to extreme problems are extreme. Tough titty, "moderates". Reality isn't the same shape as the inside of human brains. Elitist??? What, that closed gentleman's club of... people who bother to find anything out about what they're taking about? Tsk, Tsk, mouse. And so on...

Anyway, that particular mess positively *plagues* the right wing. I didn't really even know I was doing it, the initial reaction phase to a comment in an argument is short and I had to pay attention to what I was doing to figure it out. Most people who fall prey to it never realise they're doing it. O'Reilly is absolutely RIDDLED with the symptoms of this disease, he's practically turned it into a religion in its own right. I know a lot of people on the left find it extraordinary that people think this way, but that's usually because truth is a big deal for them, and it isn't as big of a deal for the kind of person I used to be, who had no faith that there WAS a sensible way of looking at politics objectively and so didn't attempt to find one. It all seemed too complicated.

5. I realised, looking into left wing politics, that it's about reality, not politics. There's no use in discussing politics at all unless it's about other people, sitting there indefinitely defending your "own corner" leads to nothing but communication blocks. It's a ludicrously inefficient way of dealing with other human beings. That contrasted with the right, which, I realised, was largely about not being the left. Even the reasonably positive ideas that the right tries to come out with are essentially reactionary. The left, by comparison, looks at the world largely as it is and tries to do something about it. When left wing ideology fails in practice, it's usually because it doesn't take into account the fact that the world is utterly over-run with ring wing idiots.

Anyway, that's all I can think of for now. More thoughts soon from the diminutive mouse...

Are there any more ex-right wingers out there? I daresay my little story as it is thus far may seem a little odd.
"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism, but under the name of liberalism they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program until one day America will be a socialist nation without ever knowing how it happened."
  -- Norman Thomas, six-time Socialist Party presidential candidate and one of the founders of the ACLU


Offline Celtic Rose

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Re: I used to be right wing, and here's how I stopped.
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2008, 05:19:39 PM »
What elitist, self-congratulatory crap

Quote
That contrasted with the right, which, I realised, was largely about not being the left. Even the reasonably positive ideas that the right tries to come out with are essentially reactionary. The left, by comparison, looks at the world largely as it is and tries to do something about it.

I sincerely doubt that baby-mouse was ever a Republican, or on the Right side of the aisle.  The fact that she never goes into specifics is extremely telling.  I would be really interested in knowing how right-wing ideas are in reaction to left-wing ideas, when, quite honestly, most right wing ideas are much older than contemporary left wing politics.  The idea that a person deserves to keep what he earned without giving half to the government, much older idea than the income tax.  The idea of self-responsibility an ancient idea. 

Offline Carl

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Re: I used to be right wing, and here's how I stopped.
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2008, 06:02:54 PM »
What a load of road apples.

It reads exactly as a lifetime DUmmie would write it as they try to pretend to represent ideas that they know nothing of.
It smacks of smarmyness and this last jewel of idiocy says all one needs to know about the poster....
Quote
When left wing ideology fails in practice, it's usually because it doesn't take into account the fact that the world is utterly over-run with ring wing idiots.


Offline Chris_

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Re: I used to be right wing, and here's how I stopped.
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2008, 06:16:46 PM »
So that entire long-winded, pseudo-intellectual milquetoast rant was just his way of saying:

"I'm incapable of having an original thought and so sway in whatever direction the wind is currently blowing. I used to pretend I was a right wing Christian because my next door neighbor invited me to his youth group a couple of times and thought it was cool. But since I don't really know what the hell I believe and really don't care to take the time to find out, I'll just adopt the thoughts and beliefs of the last person I talked to. Since I have no core, naturally I became a liberal. Now I can pretend I'm one of the few "in the know", an intellectual giant in a sea of imbeciles. I am SO special! Go ahead, ask me what I believe! I'll be happy to tell you...just as soon as I finish finding out what that is from my anarchist friend. He's that old hippie dude standing on the corner over there with the BUCK FUSH sign...the one chanting 'NO BLOOD FOR OIL!' Pretty profound, huh?"

Cindie
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Offline Chris_

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Re: I used to be right wing, and here's how I stopped.
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2008, 06:22:51 PM »
Quote
devilgrrl  (1000+ posts)      Sat Jan-26-08 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #102
118. Right-wing thought is "normal"? How so? Hypocrite?
 Say, great BDSM shots of the mice... You seem to have an affection for seeing animals tortured. You like to hit them with your car too? Huh? Hypocrite?

... followed by a Swamp Rat photoshop.   :loser:
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Offline Chris_

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Re: I used to be right wing, and here's how I stopped.
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2008, 06:26:32 PM »
I declare this the first Hardcore Bouncy posted on CC.
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Offline bijou

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Re: I used to be right wing, and here's how I stopped.
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2008, 06:29:13 PM »
So that entire long-winded, pseudo-intellectual milquetoast rant was just his way of saying:

"I'm incapable of having an original thought and so sway in whatever direction the wind is currently blowing. I used to pretend I was a right wing Christian because my next door neighbor invited me to his youth group a couple of times and thought it was cool. But since I don't really know what the hell I believe and really don't care to take the time to find out, I'll just adopt the thoughts and beliefs of the last person I talked to. Since I have no core, naturally I became a liberal. Now I can pretend I'm one of the few "in the know", an intellectual giant in a sea of imbeciles. I am SO special! Go ahead, ask me what I believe! I'll be happy to tell you...just as soon as I finish finding out what that is from my anarchist friend. He's that old hippie dude standing on the corner over there with the BUCK FUSH sign...the one chanting 'NO BLOOD FOR OIL!' Pretty profound, huh?"

Cindie
That was a brilliant demolition, so glad you are posting in the DUmpster



Offline Chris_

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Re: I used to be right wing, and here's how I stopped.
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2008, 06:29:27 PM »
:bouncy:

I give it one bouncy out of five.
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Offline PatriotGame

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Re: I used to be right wing, and here's how I stopped.
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2008, 06:46:35 PM »
Quote
I used to be right wing, and here's how I stopped.
Posted by baby_mouse on Sat Jan-26-08 12:48 PM
Blah...blah...blah...to infinity...

Does the Bostonian Drunkard have a daughter?
« Last Edit: January 26, 2008, 07:03:06 PM by PatriotGame »
           ►☼Liberals Are THE Root of ALL Evil!☼◄

Offline whiteguyPI

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Re: I used to be right wing, and here's how I stopped.
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2008, 07:28:02 PM »
Damn, that thread degenerates into a retard check-in.
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Offline ReardenSteel

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Re: I used to be right wing, and here's how I stopped.
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2008, 08:30:27 PM »
Quote
librechik  (1000+ posts)       Sat Jan-26-08 02:41 PM
Response to Original message
115. yeah --it;' s called growing up. A lot of people never ever do.
 Edited on Sat Jan-26-08 02:55 PM by librechik
How ironic it is that those baby tyrants pretend THEY are the grownups!

I used to love Reagan. My dad was a tough city cop and hated The Left. I was raised to be a good little right wing prude, a compliant child bride.

Thank goodness a GOOD friend made me sit down and actually try marijuana. Let's just say I had my first Peak Experience. Honest to god, it was magical--like a veil was gently stripped from my eyes and I could suddenly see how wrong my upbringing was. It really was instantaneous. And irreversible. Unique? I don't know. Wonderful? Yes!

Although I wouldn't recommend it for anyone else. These are different times. And one should grow up normally if possible. My parents had already ruined me.

That was in 1972. Soon I changed from a straight-A-working-3-jobs-overachiever into an outraged, street-performing commune dwelling radical. I saw the truth in that moment for the first time, and I have never stopped loving it, no matter what.

Ha ha on my thuggish John Bircher dad !

Eventually (30 years!!) Dad wised up too. At the end (06) he knew how Bush had played him and all his friends. That was one of the few good things we shared before he passed.

Holy Moly!  :lmao:  :lmao:  :lmao:  :lmao:

I had my bad old days of pot smoking but this reads too funny. It's almost exactly like those scare ads about drugs from the old days. librechik smoked some weed and actualy did go all "reefer madness" and f*** up her life.  :lmao: :lmao:

(laughing so hard because it just can't be true)  :uhsure:


 
"When you see that trading is done, not by consent, but by compulsion - when you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing - when you see that money is flowing to those who deal, not in goods, but in favors - when you see that men get richer by graft and by pull than by work, and your laws don't protect you against them, but protect them against you - when you see corruption being rewarded and honesty becoming a self-sacrifice - you may know that your society is doomed."

- Ayn Rand
http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=1826

Offline jukin

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Re: I used to be right wing, and here's how I stopped.
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2008, 08:35:28 PM »
Riiiiiiiiiight.
TRUMP 2017-2024 MAGA

"We are gonna win, win, win. We're going to win with military, we're going to win at the borders, we're going to win with trade, we're going to win at everything. And some of you are friends and you're going to call, and you're going to say, 'Mr. President, please, we can't take it anymore, we can't win anymore like this, Mr. President, you're driving us crazy, you're winning too much, please Mr. President, not so much, and I'm going to say I'm sorry, we're going to keep winning because we are going to make America great again."

Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

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Re: I used to be right wing, and here's how I stopped.
« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2008, 08:58:24 PM »
I'll counter with:

I was raised by liberals, i.e. Carter good, Reagan bad. I shared joints with my parents. By 17 I had dropped-out and was working dead-end fast food jobs. I soon figured I'd be dead and/or in jail if something didn't change.

I joined the army. No ideology, no patriotism; just a free meal and a roof.

While I was there I had an interesting experience...

The "greens" in Germany would protest us incessantly. If they caught us walking in town at night it was guaranteed to be a fight, especially if they outnumbered us (never if we outnumbered them). Yet, a few miles away was an entire border of barbed wire and machineguns put up by the Soviets, not NATO; and it wasn't put up to keep NATO out but to keep Soviet slaves in.

We weren't the ones willing to kill people to keep them, but the greens protested us.

That was when I first started to question this whole "Just give peace a chance" mantra.

Then when I got back to the states I had a sociology prof say that abortion, gay rights, feminism and other pillars of liberal religion were based on Marxism. He used to say, "You don't have to belive me, but you at least have to try to prove me wrong."

I had an inkling that noone would try, they would only sit there in silent animosity...so I went to the library and got a copy of The Communist Manifesto as well as numerous books by various gay rights, feminist and other authors. Not books ABOUT them but books BY them.

He was right.

I remembered that it was the Marxist that put up the barbed wire and machineguns to keep people in.

I never looked back.
According to the Bible, "know" means "yes."

Offline Wretched Excess

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Re: I used to be right wing, and here's how I stopped.
« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2008, 09:29:00 PM »
I will counter with:

good riddance.  Jesus, what a freaking boring person. :whatever:

Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

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Re: I used to be right wing, and here's how I stopped.
« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2008, 09:32:43 PM »
I will counter with:

good riddance.  Jesus, what a freaking boring person. :whatever:
That works too.
According to the Bible, "know" means "yes."

Offline Wretched Excess

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Re: I used to be right wing, and here's how I stopped.
« Reply #15 on: January 26, 2008, 09:38:32 PM »
I will counter with:

good riddance.  Jesus, what a freaking boring person. :whatever:
That works too.

I staggered through that whole post, and I think I came out dumber than when I started. :whatever:

Offline ih8hippies

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Re: I used to be right wing, and here's how I stopped.
« Reply #16 on: January 26, 2008, 09:57:31 PM »
Quote
I staggered through that whole post, and I think I came out dumber than when I started.

DU kills brain cells. I thought most knew that.....?

Offline Wretched Excess

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Re: I used to be right wing, and here's how I stopped.
« Reply #17 on: January 26, 2008, 10:12:54 PM »
Quote
I staggered through that whole post, and I think I came out dumber than when I started.

DU kills brain cells. I thought most knew that.....?

I have my defense mechanisms fully prepared when I surf at DU.  sometimes, here, a brain cell killer slips in.

Offline ReardenSteel

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Re: I used to be right wing, and here's how I stopped.
« Reply #18 on: January 26, 2008, 10:34:09 PM »
Quote
I staggered through that whole post, and I think I came out dumber than when I started.

DU kills brain cells. I thought most knew that.....?

I have my defense mechanisms fully prepared when I surf at DU.  sometimes, here, a brain cell killer slips in.

Tends to work that way for me too. It's very rare for me to read a whole thread over there. as I did with this one and there is no question about it... I'm more dumblyer nows.

DU's special brand of condescending, supercilious bravado about politics lends itself to that kind of an OP. The new Left tends to create that kind of personality IMO.
"When you see that trading is done, not by consent, but by compulsion - when you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing - when you see that money is flowing to those who deal, not in goods, but in favors - when you see that men get richer by graft and by pull than by work, and your laws don't protect you against them, but protect them against you - when you see corruption being rewarded and honesty becoming a self-sacrifice - you may know that your society is doomed."

- Ayn Rand
http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=1826

Offline Chris_

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Re: I used to be right wing, and here's how I stopped.
« Reply #19 on: January 26, 2008, 10:40:16 PM »
I'll counter with:

I was raised by liberals, i.e. Carter good, Reagan bad. I shared joints with my parents. By 17 I had dropped-out and was working dead-end fast food jobs. I soon figured I'd be dead and/or in jail if something didn't change.

Yep, same here...60's parents. They're the most selfish, self-involved people I've ever met. You'd think after all these years trying to "find themselves" (they divorced when I was very young), they would've found something by now. Thank God I had wonderful grandparents who gave me some stability while my parents were doing their thing. They're still clueless, it's utterly amazing. My dad just sort of bums along up and down the west coast with the dragon lady he married and my mother latched on to a decent, hard working guy who adores her (I don't know why) and is in the process of drinking herself to death...at least she discovered she loves gin. The thing is, rich or poor, yuppie or hippie their friends are all the same way. They think they're the deepest people on the face of the earth but they never see beyond the superficial. Whether they're whining about "race", "class", or what they were deprived of growing up it's always about them and always someone else's fault. My father actually told me I should vote for the person who promised to give me the most stuff...sheesh!

Cindie
If you want to worship an orange pile of garbage with a reckless disregard for everything, get on down to Arbys & try our loaded curly fries.

Offline Chris_

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Re: I used to be right wing, and here's how I stopped.
« Reply #20 on: January 26, 2008, 11:25:50 PM »

Holy Moly!  :lmao:  :lmao:  :lmao:  :lmao:

I had my bad old days of pot smoking but this reads too funny. It's almost exactly like those scare ads about drugs from the old days. librechik smoked some weed and actualy did go all "reefer madness" and f*** up her life.  :lmao: :lmao:

(laughing so hard because it just can't be true)  :uhsure:

Only a DUmmy would be proud of failure.

 

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Offline mamacags

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Re: I used to be right wing, and here's how I stopped.
« Reply #21 on: January 27, 2008, 06:40:55 AM »
I used to be an ultra left wing moonbat.  How did I stop being one?  I sobered up.  DUmmies should try that every now and then.
All the great things are simple, and many can be expressed in a single word: freedom, justice, honor, duty, mercy, hope.
Winston Churchill

Offline Splashdown

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Re: I used to be right wing, and here's how I stopped.
« Reply #22 on: January 27, 2008, 07:25:53 AM »
Used to be right wing.

Then went with the lobotomy.
Let nothing trouble you,
Let nothing frighten you. 
All things are passing;
God never changes.
Patience attains all that it strives for.
He who has God lacks nothing:
God alone suffices.
--St. Theresa of Avila



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Offline Attero Dominatus

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Re: I used to be right wing, and here's how I stopped.
« Reply #23 on: January 27, 2008, 09:24:05 AM »
I did not even bother to read through all that tripe. All I can say it is full of crap, but crap is all DUmmies post.
Those who would trade their liberty for temporary security will get neither. --Benjamin Franklin.

Offline Chris_

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Re: I used to be right wing, and here's how I stopped.
« Reply #24 on: January 27, 2008, 09:38:14 AM »
Yep, same here...60's parents. They're the most selfish, self-involved people I've ever met. You'd think after all these years trying to "find themselves" (they divorced when I was very young), they would've found something by now.

HA HA HA HA!!  I always thought that "finding yourself" line was a load of crap.  If you don't know who you are, the government sure isn't going to help you find out.
If you want to worship an orange pile of garbage with a reckless disregard for everything, get on down to Arbys & try our loaded curly fries.