http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2755175Oh my.
The burdened primitive, who blames his downfall on being laid off of a good job down there in Texas.....in 1978.
For which the burdened primitive still blames Ronald Reagan, the first George Bush, and the current George Bush, conveniently forgetting who was president.....in 1978.
Anyway.
Tyler Durden (1000+ posts) Thu Jan-24-08 07:13 AM
Original message
I'm a pretty smart guy, but the NEED for the stock market still escapes me.
It still smells like a scam.
YOU sell ME one share of your endeavor. This "pays" a dividend if YOU make money with your endeavor. Not like it's more than what I could get with a good CD, though. The INVESTMENT angle comes in I "gamble" and buy a shitload of your "stock" AND if YOU make a TON of money with your endeavor, and sell off to someone else. THEN, if I sell TOO, I get more than what I gave YOU in the first place.
All of this works if I am one HELL of an astute investor, or I pay someone else a share of a TON of money to make my choices for me.
'Scuse the ol' Socialist here, but this sounds like "RICH GUY NIGHT AT THE RIGGED CASINO" to me. I don't see where JOE SCHMUCKITELLI ever stands to make enough off of this to make the old "pension system" look bad.
Am I wrong here?
Yeah, the burdened primitive's wrong, and so are most of the primitives hovering around this campfire, which is a blazing conflagration at least ten miles long.
Tyler Durden (1000+ posts) Thu Jan-24-08 07:27 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. I see that part....
In the Capitalist World, it's supposed to bring ME a benefit.
Unless I'm investing BILLIONS or my Magic 8-Ball is tied into the market, I don't see how that works. I don't know ANYONE who expects their 401k to outperform what they would have received in a traditional pension scenario.
That's what I don't understand.
Alas! the poor burdened primitive! Alas! There's plenty the burdened primitive doesn't understand! Alas!
Tyler Durden (1000+ posts) Thu Jan-24-08 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #26
35. I repeat as I have before: NOTHING lasts forever.
And not everyone can "...go ye and do likewise..."
This attitude, which is extremely centered around the "I" is dangerous to the concept of politics, and to you personally.
It's a lifeboat. If you have your end with its pool, air conditioning, and stocked bar, what happens to YOU when the people on the other end get fed up with bailing to keep you afloat?
You aren't in this ALONE. The sooner you figure this out, the better. This is NOT a slam, just an observation from one of those "old guys" you've always heard about.
Tyler Durden (1000+ posts) Thu Jan-24-08 07:28 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Exactly my point. Sooo...where are the Market Defenders out there?
Anyone?
Asking for market defenders on Skins's island is like asking for condoms in a nunnery; they just aren't there.
Tyler Durden (1000+ posts) Thu Jan-24-08 07:58 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. That's not the argument I'm making.
I want someone to tell me HOW the market is a "Good Thing" and the 401k is a GREAT replacement for the traditional pension.
I see the whole situation as a GREAT opportunity for VERY RICH PEOPLE to make more money off of VERY POOR PEOPLE.
I've been trying to understand WHY I should look on the stock market as a GOOD THING most of my life. I just don't see it.
I guess a 150+ IQ does not necessarily mean you understand everything...or...maybe I'm RIGHT.
Tyler Durden (1000+ posts) Thu Jan-24-08 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #16
19. Ther is nothing "scrambled" in my understanding.
You haven't explained why this is a "Good Thing" to the guy who will likely never even make a true "living wage."
This is, by the way, a modern way of re-running an economic problem that historically has caused economic collapse in the past.
I understand how the MACHINE works. Nobody has shown me that the Machine is Good or serves a NECESSARY PURPOSE, other than the maximization of profits, skewed toward the Moneyed Power Elite.
Same as it ever was.
Tyler Durden (1000+ posts) Thu Jan-24-08 09:12 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. You have told me NOTHING I don't already know.
You aren't addressing the REAL issue here, and there is no reason to be condescending.
What you have not done is show me how this system, touted as the salvation of the American Worker while their pensions were looted and eliminated, works to THEIR advantage.
Also, you have not shown me how the "little guy" who has about 1% of his yearly pittance to invest and TRY to make up for that looted and eliminated pension will succeed under this system.
THAT is the issue here. I understand how it works for the CAPITAL ELITE. This is not news. I simply do not see how it continues to be supported where the rubber meets the road.
I have ideas as to why this works:
1. The general population are easily conned idiots. This is the more likely situation. Otherwise, nobody would send the "Nairobi Bank Account" email scams in the first place. After all, the Iowa IQ series of tests IS based on a weighted average of 100.
2. The general population has no other choice. This of course happens AFTER idea #1, when the companies have convinced everyone that it's a "good thing" to "job hop." For WHO? The ELITE, of course. No Seniority means no RAISES, nobody's loyalty to have to maintain, no sense of the JOB as a subset of the COMMUNITY: there isn't a single psychologist in the country that thinks THAT is a "Good Thing."
3. The general population wants desperately to believe in the "Tooth Fairy" or "Santa Claus." Sort of a subset of #1 with a hint of desperation. The country has told them they can be "jet setters" when they retire, all they need is E-Trade, or ING, or what have you. This is the same logic (or the lack thereof) that drives Lottery Sales.
NO ONE touts the Stock Market and investment in the Stock Market as "good for America" or "supporting American Business." If it was and it did, then we wouldn't need massive foreign investment just to keep the companies floating. A corporation has ONE GOAL: MAXIMIZE PROFITS FOR INVESTORS. This is by LAW. It also discourages "Company Loyalty" in a work force, because that is considered a "Cost Center."
The MARKET is touted as YOUR RETIREMENT SALVATION. Why is this so? Because some bright boy or girl saw a way to make workers PAY for their own retirement and FUND companies as well. This made Company Loyalty go out the window, because if my retirement depends on me schlepping as much cash into stock/mutual funds which seldom involve the company I'm in, then I don't have to be loyal, and that supports the Management Money Machine as well, because I HAVE TO keep looking to "better deal" myself just to keep up.
The problem here is that Company Loyalty was a "Good Thing." It brought pride in workmanship. It made for healthier workers through benefits and lowered stress. Now, anti-depressant/anti-anxiety meds are the biggest part of the drug industry.
So you see, I understand HOW it works, I, as an INTELLIGENT citizen, just do not understand WHY it continues to pull in suckers, I mean, function the way it does.
And it just goes on and on and on, the 150-IQed burdened primitive not understanding.
And the lilluputian tom thumb primitive, he of the booster-seat in the front seat of his big gas-guzzling pick-up truck, ostensibly with a four-year degree in economics, muddies the water even more.