Author Topic: burdened primitive a pretty smart guy  (Read 1746 times)

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Offline franksolich

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burdened primitive a pretty smart guy
« on: January 24, 2008, 04:46:35 PM »
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2755175

Oh my.

The burdened primitive, who blames his downfall on being laid off of a good job down there in Texas.....in 1978.

For which the burdened primitive still blames Ronald Reagan, the first George Bush, and the current George Bush, conveniently forgetting who was president.....in 1978.

Anyway.

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Tyler Durden  (1000+ posts)       Thu Jan-24-08 07:13 AM
Original message
 
I'm a pretty smart guy, but the NEED for the stock market still escapes me.   

It still smells like a scam.

YOU sell ME one share of your endeavor. This "pays" a dividend if YOU make money with your endeavor. Not like it's more than what I could get with a good CD, though. The INVESTMENT angle comes in I "gamble" and buy a shitload of your "stock" AND if YOU make a TON of money with your endeavor, and sell off to someone else. THEN, if I sell TOO, I get more than what I gave YOU in the first place.

All of this works if I am one HELL of an astute investor, or I pay someone else a share of a TON of money to make my choices for me.

'Scuse the ol' Socialist here, but this sounds like "RICH GUY NIGHT AT THE RIGGED CASINO" to me. I don't see where JOE SCHMUCKITELLI ever stands to make enough off of this to make the old "pension system" look bad.

Am I wrong here?

Yeah, the burdened primitive's wrong, and so are most of the primitives hovering around this campfire, which is a blazing conflagration at least ten miles long.

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Tyler Durden  (1000+ posts)       Thu Jan-24-08 07:27 AM
Response to Reply #1
 
4. I see that part.... 

In the Capitalist World, it's supposed to bring ME a benefit.

Unless I'm investing BILLIONS or my Magic 8-Ball is tied into the market, I don't see how that works. I don't know ANYONE who expects their 401k to outperform what they would have received in a traditional pension scenario.

That's what I don't understand.

Alas! the poor burdened primitive! Alas! There's plenty the burdened primitive doesn't understand! Alas!

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Tyler Durden  (1000+ posts)       Thu Jan-24-08 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #26
 
35. I repeat as I have before: NOTHING lasts forever.   

And not everyone can "...go ye and do likewise..."

This attitude, which is extremely centered around the "I" is dangerous to the concept of politics, and to you personally.

It's a lifeboat. If you have your end with its pool, air conditioning, and stocked bar, what happens to YOU when the people on the other end get fed up with bailing to keep you afloat?

You aren't in this ALONE. The sooner you figure this out, the better. This is NOT a slam, just an observation from one of those "old guys" you've always heard about.

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Tyler Durden  (1000+ posts)       Thu Jan-24-08 07:28 AM
Response to Reply #3
 
5. Exactly my point. Sooo...where are the Market Defenders out there? 

Anyone?

Asking for market defenders on Skins's island is like asking for condoms in a nunnery; they just aren't there.

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Tyler Durden  (1000+ posts)       Thu Jan-24-08 07:58 AM
Response to Reply #8
 
11. That's not the argument I'm making.   

I want someone to tell me HOW the market is a "Good Thing" and the 401k is a GREAT replacement for the traditional pension.

I see the whole situation as a GREAT opportunity for VERY RICH PEOPLE to make more money off of VERY POOR PEOPLE.

I've been trying to understand WHY I should look on the stock market as a GOOD THING most of my life. I just don't see it.

I guess a 150+ IQ does not necessarily mean you understand everything...or...maybe I'm RIGHT.

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Tyler Durden  (1000+ posts)       Thu Jan-24-08 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #16
 
19. Ther is nothing "scrambled" in my understanding.   

You haven't explained why this is a "Good Thing" to the guy who will likely never even make a true "living wage."

This is, by the way, a modern way of re-running an economic problem that historically has caused economic collapse in the past.

I understand how the MACHINE works. Nobody has shown me that the Machine is Good or serves a NECESSARY PURPOSE, other than the maximization of profits, skewed toward the Moneyed Power Elite.

Same as it ever was.

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Tyler Durden  (1000+ posts)       Thu Jan-24-08 09:12 AM
Response to Reply #15
 
17. You have told me NOTHING I don't already know.   

You aren't addressing the REAL issue here, and there is no reason to be condescending.

What you have not done is show me how this system, touted as the salvation of the American Worker while their pensions were looted and eliminated, works to THEIR advantage.

Also, you have not shown me how the "little guy" who has about 1% of his yearly pittance to invest and TRY to make up for that looted and eliminated pension will succeed under this system.

THAT is the issue here. I understand how it works for the CAPITAL ELITE. This is not news. I simply do not see how it continues to be supported where the rubber meets the road.

I have ideas as to why this works:

1. The general population are easily conned idiots. This is the more likely situation. Otherwise, nobody would send the "Nairobi Bank Account" email scams in the first place. After all, the Iowa IQ series of tests IS based on a weighted average of 100.

2. The general population has no other choice. This of course happens AFTER idea #1, when the companies have convinced everyone that it's a "good thing" to "job hop." For WHO? The ELITE, of course. No Seniority means no RAISES, nobody's loyalty to have to maintain, no sense of the JOB as a subset of the COMMUNITY: there isn't a single psychologist in the country that thinks THAT is a "Good Thing."

3. The general population wants desperately to believe in the "Tooth Fairy" or "Santa Claus." Sort of a subset of #1 with a hint of desperation. The country has told them they can be "jet setters" when they retire, all they need is E-Trade, or ING, or what have you. This is the same logic (or the lack thereof) that drives Lottery Sales.

NO ONE touts the Stock Market and investment in the Stock Market as "good for America" or "supporting American Business." If it was and it did, then we wouldn't need massive foreign investment just to keep the companies floating. A corporation has ONE GOAL: MAXIMIZE PROFITS FOR INVESTORS. This is by LAW. It also discourages "Company Loyalty" in a work force, because that is considered a "Cost Center."

The MARKET is touted as YOUR RETIREMENT SALVATION. Why is this so? Because some bright boy or girl saw a way to make workers PAY for their own retirement and FUND companies as well. This made Company Loyalty go out the window, because if my retirement depends on me schlepping as much cash into stock/mutual funds which seldom involve the company I'm in, then I don't have to be loyal, and that supports the Management Money Machine as well, because I HAVE TO keep looking to "better deal" myself just to keep up.

The problem here is that Company Loyalty was a "Good Thing." It brought pride in workmanship. It made for healthier workers through benefits and lowered stress. Now, anti-depressant/anti-anxiety meds are the biggest part of the drug industry.

So you see, I understand HOW it works, I, as an INTELLIGENT citizen, just do not understand WHY it continues to pull in suckers, I mean, function the way it does.

And it just goes on and on and on, the 150-IQed burdened primitive not understanding.

And the lilluputian tom thumb primitive, he of the booster-seat in the front seat of his big gas-guzzling pick-up truck, ostensibly with a four-year degree in economics, muddies the water even more.
Democrats: A bunch of rich people convincing poor people to vote for rich people by telling poor people that other rich people are the reason they are poor

Life is short, and suddenly you're not there any more.

Offline Lord Undies

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Re: burdened primitive a pretty smart guy
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2008, 05:03:24 PM »
Nothing in the real world will ever be clear to a DUmmie because they do not have the emotional maturity to understand the world is not a zero-sum game.  The average DUmmie is convinced the entire world is a conspiracy against him. 

DUmmies suffer from a morbid fear of having the wool pulled over their eyes.  This morbid fear drives them to invent every possible scenario of conspiracy just in case one of their delusions happens to happen.  A DUmmie could never live with himself if he had to admit he didn't see something coming.  That prospect bothers a DUmmie one thousand times more than knowing the normal sane people think he is a wacked-out loon.   

Offline jukin

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Re: burdened primitive a pretty smart guy
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2008, 06:20:06 PM »
DO the DUmpmonkeys know that pension funds are the 800 pound gorilla in the stock market?
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Offline Chris_

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Re: burdened primitive a pretty smart guy
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2008, 06:25:10 PM »
Nothing in the real world will ever be clear to a DUmmie because they do not have the emotional maturity to understand the world is not a zero-sum game.  The average DUmmie is convinced the entire world is a conspiracy against him. 

DUmmies suffer from a morbid fear of having the wool pulled over their eyes.  This morbid fear drives them to invent every possible scenario of conspiracy just in case one of their delusions happens to happen.  A DUmmie could never live with himself if he had to admit he didn't see something coming.  That prospect bothers a DUmmie one thousand times more than knowing the normal sane people think he is a wacked-out loon.   

Conspiracy nuts (100% of DUmmies) are that way because they don't have any ability to control their lives.  Since it can't POSSIBLY be from the fact they won't just cowboy up and be responsible for their decisions, it MUST BE that the entire world is out to get them, personally.  Once you settle on this world view, you are no longer to blame for being an idiot.
 
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Offline VelvetElvis

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Re: burdened primitive a pretty smart guy
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2008, 06:30:12 PM »
The burdened primitive has used an awful lot of words to illustrate his absolute cluelessness in matters financial, when he could have saved himself a lot of energy, having proved his ignorance with his first sentence.
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Online SSG Snuggle Bunny

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Re: burdened primitive a pretty smart guy
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2008, 06:36:13 PM »
Let's type this slowly.

A company offers 100 shares of stock.

You buy 1 share giving you 1% ownership as you have paid 1% of the capital startup costs of said company.

You are therefore entitled to 1% of any profits earned.

Of course if the business is run poorly you also suffer 1% of its losses.

More than likely your share gives you a voting percentage commensurate to the percentage of stock ownership so you are able to vote in a bloc equal to your investment.

Contrary to be anti-socialism it seems to be as democratic as one can get allowing someone to control a concern with a degree equal to his material risk.
According to the Bible, "know" means "yes."

Offline miskie

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Re: burdened primitive a pretty smart guy
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2008, 08:06:14 PM »
Thats the part they dont like -- that little word, 'Buy' -- the DUmmies think they are entitled to free stock, and a say in the dealings of ALL businesses. They also dont like that weathy investors buy more stock, which gives them more say.

Offline Rebel

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Re: burdened primitive a pretty smart guy
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2008, 08:10:28 PM »
DO the DUmpmonkeys know that pension funds are the 800 pound gorilla in the stock market?

Um, you do know who you're talking about, right? Hell, not to mention people want a return on their investment. Not to mention also that companies NEED those investments to perform research and development of new products, etc. Hell no they don't know it. They're idiots. To them, the government should control all means of production. They're very selective in what the want the government to do though. Why? Again, they're ****ing idiots. Durden is a flippin' moron.

No Durden, you are NOT a smart guy. One of the dumbest on DU....and that's a hard task to achieve.
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Offline Chris_

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Re: burdened primitive a pretty smart guy
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2008, 08:12:54 PM »
Let's type this slowly.

A company offers 100 shares of stock.

You buy 1 share giving you 1% ownership as you have paid 1% of the capital startup costs of said company.

You are therefore entitled to 1% of any profits earned.

Of course if the business is run poorly you also suffer 1% of its losses.

More than likely your share gives you a voting percentage commensurate to the percentage of stock ownership so you are able to vote in a bloc equal to your investment.

Contrary to be anti-socialism it seems to be as democratic as one can get allowing someone to control a concern with a degree equal to his material risk.
The loss is only up to the amount of your stock purchase.  That is what makes it so great. 
If you want to worship an orange pile of garbage with a reckless disregard for everything, get on down to Arbys & try our loaded curly fries.

Offline Duke Nukum

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Re: burdened primitive a pretty smart guy
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2008, 01:32:16 AM »
Considering that the market is one of the great engines for wealth in this country and considering that it isn't going anywhere and further considering that socialism is one of the great engines for poverty, boredom, and despair, I think it is far better to find a way to get along with the market than to try and rail against it.

Reminds me of the Cowboy in Mulholland Drive:

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Cowboy: There's sometimes a buggy. How many drivers does a buggy have?
Adam Kesher: One.
Cowboy: So, let's just say I'm driving this buggy. And, if you fix your attitude, you can ride along with me.

Let's just say, I'd rather fix my attitude and ride a long with the market than pointlessly gripe about how unfair it is and claim some philosophy that has never worked in the whole history of humankind is superior to something that actually exists and works.
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