Author Topic: Impeach Trump  (Read 2590 times)

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Offline dutch508

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Impeach Trump
« on: September 18, 2019, 06:20:08 PM »
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H2O Man (61,597 posts)
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212473210

Impeach Trump

Washington (CNN)In a previously undisclosed secret mission in 2017, the United States successfully extracted from Russia one of its highest-level covert sources inside the Russian government, multiple Trump administration officials with direct knowledge told CNN.
Jim Sciutto; September 9, 2019

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/09/politics/russia-us-spy-extracted/index.html


While reports on the CIA asset in Russia shifted slightly – including the anticipated denials from both sides – the nature of the genesis of the “Trump-Russian Scandal” has come into clearer focus for those who have been following it closely. Many people, including a number on this forum, knew that it had not started with George Papadopoulos – although that is likely when the FBI officially became involved.

The Steele dossier came after Papadopoulos's involvement, despite the Trump administration's claim that it started the intelligence investigation. It contains “raw” intelligence – the type of information that typically leads to closer examination to verify potential evidence needed in counterintelligence investigations. Parts of it remain unverified, and one section found inaccurate. Yet it indicates that people involved in intelligence were interested in the Trump campaign's connections with Russia in a manner far different than mere campaign opposition research.

The spy was extracted shortly after Trump fired FBI director James Comey. Trump then had the meeting with two Russians in the Oval Office, where he bragged about this. He would then tell Lestor Holt on national television that he fired Comey due to “the Russia thing.” The result of this was not limited to the CIA taking its emergency action to extract the spy: acting FNI director Andrew McCabe opened an investigation to consider the possibility that Trump was an active Russiian asset, while Rod Rosenstein of the Justice Department appointed Robert Mueller to head its expanded investigation.

The significance of this cluster of activity by intelligence agencies should not be overlooked. Also, that while those in the White House often say that the administration cooperated fully with the investigation, that Mr. Mueller reported that some individuals refused to be interviewed, and others lied to investigators. Several of the liars were indicted and convicted. And most significantly, Trump refused to be interviewed.

The Mueller Report was divided into two sections: the first regarding the Russian operation, and potential conspiracy with the Trump campaign, the second on Trump's obstruction of justice during the investigation. Part one concluded that, based upon the evidence, prosecutors were not confident that they could get a conviction for a conspiracy between Russia and the Trump campaign. It did not conclude that there was no coordination between them, including the infamous Trump Tower meeting led by Donald, Jr. More, it is important to recognize that information that intelligence agencies other than the FBI had gathered would be too sensitive to use in a domestic prosecution.

Part two of the report detailed Donald Trump's on-going efforts to obstruct the Mueller investigation. The report clearly stated that while DOJ guidelines do not permit the indictment of a sitting president, the report did not clear Trump of potential charges of obstruction of justice. Rather, the report provided a road map for Congress to investigate Trump.

After issuing the report, Mr.Mueller remained in his position to complete his contribution to the counterintelligence report. This report has not been made public, of course, as it is highly classified. Only a very few members of the House and Senate intelligence committees are aware of a limited amount of the information contained in it.

Several House committees are currently investigating the “potential” crimes of Donald Trump. As we have seen over the past months, the White House is refusing to cooperate with the House as it fulfills its constitutional duties. Attorney General Barr is playing point for the stonewalling. Indeed, Barr is attempting to abuse the powers of the Justice Department by investigating Trump's “enemies.” It appears that this includes a failed attempt to get a grand jury indictment of Mr. McCabe. The curious timing of Sciutto's report suggests that the intelligence community is sending Barr a message to stop his nonsense.

Yesterday, we were subjected to Corey Lewandowski's performance before a House committee. It provided a glaring example not only of the administration's on-going attempts to obstruct the investigation by claiming the right to claim privileges it is not legally entitled to, but of the willingness of Trump's true believers to lie while under oath. In the last half-hour, we were treated to the dismantling of Lewandowski when questioned for more than five minutes by a prosecutor.

The Trump administration's refusal to follow the law also includes its refusal to provide the head of the House Means and Ways Committee with the president's tax returns. The law is crystal clear regarding their legal obligation to provide these. As we all know, the law states the administration “shall” provide them, and Democrats agree on the meaning of the word “shall.”

I've said all of this, in order to focus now on the issue of if the Democrats should impeach Trump. The Constitution clearly states that in instances where the president commits high crimes and misdemeanors, the Congress “shall” impeach the president. The majority of Democrats in the House recognize that the word “shall” is consistent in federal law and in the Constitution. And they know that the Constitution does not include a clause that recommends delaying this duty for political purposes.

I do appreciate that others are entitled to opinions that differ from my own on a whole host of issues. But the need to impeach Trump seems glaringly obvious to me. What do you think?

Peace,
H2O Man

 :yawn:

almost all the post is wrong...

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Star Member Hermit-The-Prog (8,085 posts)

7. this is paramount

The threat by trumpers supercedes "kitchen table issues". We cannot address health care, wages, education, climate crisis, or environmental issues if democracy and the rule of law are dead. Without consequences, there are no laws.

Trump has ignored the supreme law of the land -- the U.S. Constitution -- whenever it conflicted with his personal goals. This cannot be allowed to stand. Waiting for an election normalizes this lawlessness by acting as if he is just like any other candidate for office.

Time is running out. We are not guaranteed another blue wave sufficient to overwhelm ever more efficient election interference. Standing up for the rule of law will energize people who are growing despondent.

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kentuck (93,262 posts)

5. Impeach him with the most extreme prejudice.

Start immediately.

Get the Democrats on the same song sheet.

Investigate much more aggressively. Do not hesitate to hold hostile witnesses in contempt.

Do not put a deadline on your investigation. Be ready to go right up to election day.

It's time to get serious or get off the pot.

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malthaussen (13,237 posts)

12. Mr Barr should have a little chat with the shade of John Mitchell

Being AG while the person occupying the Oval Office is obstructing justice sometimes does not end well.

As for impeachment, alas, I'm afraid Congress has too much of a track record of failing to do their plain duty for that to happen. That said, I agree that it is their plain duty. But we know what happens when matters of right clash with matters of perceived expediency.

-- Mal

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Star Member mopinko (53,847 posts)

18. impeach him before the entire middle east is in flames.

imho, if he launches an unauthorized attack on iran, the last of the laggards will get onboard.

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warmfeet (874 posts)

27. I absolutely agree.

I see no other way to preserve our Democratic Constitutional Republic. When our elected officials no longer adhere to the constitution, nor their oath to defend it, we are all in deep doo-doo. We are already very close to an anything-goes presidency. I can only imagine just how bad things might become in the future if we do not demand accountability today.

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dawg day (3,139 posts)

28. I'm with you-- the hardest part will be deciding on 3-5 charges

Maybe they should go for big categories:

Abuse of power
Endangering the national security
Financial crimes

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Star Member lunatica (43,543 posts)

31. I feel the Democratic leadership knew and knows impeachment is inevitable.

Of course this is only my opinion, but if you stand back and watch what’s happening, knowing full well that the Iceberg law is a natural human state, the law that explains that only one tenth of any given situation is usually observable, then it isn’t difficult to see that public statements are a tool to keep nine tenths of political manipulations under cover.

This law not only applies to the information the public gets from politicians. It applies to how information other politicians, especially the opposition, get information. Or disinformation.

It is more marked and prevalent in governments set up to be antagonistic and oppositional in their inner and outer workings, which ours is.

That’s my roundabout way of saying that if those of us who follow politics closely know things we need to concede that the true inner workers of our governing representatives know nine tenths more about it than we do. You can’t ever assume that if a politician, especially one in a leadership position is as naïve as they want us to believe they are. Or, for that matter, as truthful. Although it does take more honesty to tell the truth. And it requires so much less memory manipulation when telling the truth.

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Baked Potato (21 posts)

35. We are up against a giant web of corruption, and they have the means

and the will to bribe and payoff anyone. Joe Citizen knows Trump jumped some hookers and paid them off. Jane Citizen knows Trump probably is a tax cheat. Joe and Jane know Trump was a little too cozy with Russia. John Citizen is a businessman and knows to win you’ve got to be prepared to do *anything* to get the sale, anything to win. And, that’s all we have so far; A slimy con man who admits he would do anything to win.

He has surrounded himself with people just like him. He only trusts rich business people because he knows they love money more than anything, just like him. And, they will do anything to protect that money. He doesn’t have to order them to do anything as they already know what he wants and what he cherishes. After all, he’s just like them. And, there are millions more out there not necessarily rich, but potentially just like him.

So, we have to get Trump for crimes outside the *norm*. We need overwhelming evidence that no bribe or payoff can touch. We need every day Americans to say to themselves, “Now that’s bullshit, he can’t get away with that”. It’s got to be above and beyond what they might do every day themselves.

We have to slam the corrupt ****ers hard. We have to have more than we have now. There are many loose ends out there that need to come out before we should go full blown impeachment. Yeah, it’s a fight. It’s political as hell. It’s careers and jobs on the line. It’s the soul of America being challenged. We not only have to beat Trump, we have to crush everything he stands for. I think the strategy of Democratic leadership at this point is to methodically and legally expose Trump Inc crimes. And, let the American people impeach Trump.

A drawn out impeachment trial would suck up all the airtime and would drown out all of the messaging of all of our great candidates. I want the history books to say All of America got rid of Trump, not just a few lawmakers. That will devastate him. Once we vote him out, he will face justice. He will not get away with his crimes.

There is a remote chance the dam will break early and his house crumbles. The crimes and criminals could be uncovered in time to proceed to impeachment. That could happen and I would support that.

I’m obviously a new poster, but I’ve been lurking here for years. DU is up to the minute, cutting edge information. I appreciate everyone’s opinions and it’s great to see so many great essays like yours and others.

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Pobeka (2,295 posts)

37. Problem is McConnell is up to his neck in Russian $$ too.

So, knowing that, and how the media operates in this country, what would be the gain on impeaching Trump on the Russian conspiracy? I think it would be a loss in the long run -- the Senate will not find him guilty, and the media will repeat that to the low information voters who will believe he is innocent. Trump would most likely win in 2020.

I have thought for a long time you have to simultaneously impeach Trump AND McConnell in the court of public opinion. If more people see McConnell as corrupt, they might come out in large numbers to the polls. I think the impeachable offense is failure to protect election integrity. Put that on Trump and make McConnell defend it. And do the full court press in the media on Russian election hacking and how essentially nothing has been done. If that doesn't motivate american voters I guess nothing will.

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MartyTheGreek (60 posts)

49. The Blue Wave of 18 was a bell weather moment and GOP knows it!

More recently a few other GOP squatters in the House are bailing out. I kinda sense that there's some back channel talk that there's gonna be a big reveal based on what's not happening...

I believe DJT and his favorite King or Prince from Saud just tried to pull off a false flag to ignite yet another ME war. I say that because when you look at the Oil Tank farm that was hit, for one that was chicken scratch! I've been to a few Fuel Farms in my life and those bigger tanks don't even look like 500K Gal, and that fake attack was in a remote end area of the bigger facility. Recall that there was a sudden 50% reduction in Saudi oil supply? Then what a day or two later suddenly restored? Read on...

If you wanted to hit the Sauds hard, would you not buckshot scatter your precision guided and/or drone weapons across the whole facility? Or, was that just a little corner of the Farm that was gonna get demolished anyway? Why were there no people, firefighters, clean-up crew in the scorched earth pics? Why the dramatic satellite smoke pic from the biggest tank?

If they got away with murdering Jamal Khashoggi, who knows what they will try to do? However, thus far I have a gut feeling the White Hats are winning against the real Dark State! If this latest whistle blower report reveals criminal cover-up this may be the beginning of the end and finally impeachment for the corrupt and compromised DJT administration.

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Star Member Skittles (123,187 posts)

68. it is way past glaringly obvious

the lack of real action now is just plain embarrassing

 :whatever:

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Star Member lastlib (12,664 posts)

71. I would love to see AnusMouth tRumpski waterboarded!

FINALLY get the f*cking TRUTH out of that futhermucker!

IMPEACH him YESTERDAY!!
The torch of moral clarity since 12/18/07

2016 DOTY: 06 Omaha Steve - Is dying for ****'s face! How could you not vote for him, you heartless bastards!?!

Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

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Re: Impeach Trump
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2019, 06:26:02 PM »
Did anybody bother to mention that the asset was actually extracted in 2016 before the election and CNN has been castigated by its sister news organizations for shoddy reporting?
According to the Bible, "know" means "yes."

Offline Ralph Wiggum

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Re: Impeach Trump
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2019, 07:29:44 PM »
Did anybody bother to mention that the asset was actually extracted in 2016 before the election and CNN has been castigated by its sister news organizations for shoddy reporting?

Don't let facts get in the way of another lunatic DUmp rant.  And DUmmy Waterchild is considered DUmp royalty.
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Offline jukin

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Re: Impeach Trump
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2019, 02:46:29 PM »
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Did anybody bother to mention that the asset was actually extracted in 2016 before the election and CNN has been castigated by its sister news organizations for shoddy reporting?

Did anybody bother to mention when Hitler bombed Pearl Harbor?

 No because it was the right thing to do to bend the arc of history to the correct side.
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Offline DUmpDiver

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Re: Impeach Trump
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2019, 04:16:41 PM »
In November 2020 Trump will commit his second impeachable offense - getting elected again. :-)

Offline Ptarmigan

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Re: Impeach Trump
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2019, 02:42:49 PM »
Quote
H2O Man (61,597 posts)
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212473210

Impeach Trump

Washington (CNN)In a previously undisclosed secret mission in 2017, the United States successfully extracted from Russia one of its highest-level covert sources inside the Russian government, multiple Trump administration officials with direct knowledge told CNN.
Jim Sciutto; September 9, 2019

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/09/politics/russia-us-spy-extracted/index.html


While reports on the CIA asset in Russia shifted slightly – including the anticipated denials from both sides – the nature of the genesis of the “Trump-Russian Scandal” has come into clearer focus for those who have been following it closely. Many people, including a number on this forum, knew that it had not started with George Papadopoulos – although that is likely when the FBI officially became involved.

The Steele dossier came after Papadopoulos's involvement, despite the Trump administration's claim that it started the intelligence investigation. It contains “raw” intelligence – the type of information that typically leads to closer examination to verify potential evidence needed in counterintelligence investigations. Parts of it remain unverified, and one section found inaccurate. Yet it indicates that people involved in intelligence were interested in the Trump campaign's connections with Russia in a manner far different than mere campaign opposition research.

The spy was extracted shortly after Trump fired FBI director James Comey. Trump then had the meeting with two Russians in the Oval Office, where he bragged about this. He would then tell Lestor Holt on national television that he fired Comey due to “the Russia thing.” The result of this was not limited to the CIA taking its emergency action to extract the spy: acting FNI director Andrew McCabe opened an investigation to consider the possibility that Trump was an active Russiian asset, while Rod Rosenstein of the Justice Department appointed Robert Mueller to head its expanded investigation.

The significance of this cluster of activity by intelligence agencies should not be overlooked. Also, that while those in the White House often say that the administration cooperated fully with the investigation, that Mr. Mueller reported that some individuals refused to be interviewed, and others lied to investigators. Several of the liars were indicted and convicted. And most significantly, Trump refused to be interviewed.

The Mueller Report was divided into two sections: the first regarding the Russian operation, and potential conspiracy with the Trump campaign, the second on Trump's obstruction of justice during the investigation. Part one concluded that, based upon the evidence, prosecutors were not confident that they could get a conviction for a conspiracy between Russia and the Trump campaign. It did not conclude that there was no coordination between them, including the infamous Trump Tower meeting led by Donald, Jr. More, it is important to recognize that information that intelligence agencies other than the FBI had gathered would be too sensitive to use in a domestic prosecution.

Part two of the report detailed Donald Trump's on-going efforts to obstruct the Mueller investigation. The report clearly stated that while DOJ guidelines do not permit the indictment of a sitting president, the report did not clear Trump of potential charges of obstruction of justice. Rather, the report provided a road map for Congress to investigate Trump.

After issuing the report, Mr.Mueller remained in his position to complete his contribution to the counterintelligence report. This report has not been made public, of course, as it is highly classified. Only a very few members of the House and Senate intelligence committees are aware of a limited amount of the information contained in it.

Several House committees are currently investigating the “potential” crimes of Donald Trump. As we have seen over the past months, the White House is refusing to cooperate with the House as it fulfills its constitutional duties. Attorney General Barr is playing point for the stonewalling. Indeed, Barr is attempting to abuse the powers of the Justice Department by investigating Trump's “enemies.” It appears that this includes a failed attempt to get a grand jury indictment of Mr. McCabe. The curious timing of Sciutto's report suggests that the intelligence community is sending Barr a message to stop his nonsense.

Yesterday, we were subjected to Corey Lewandowski's performance before a House committee. It provided a glaring example not only of the administration's on-going attempts to obstruct the investigation by claiming the right to claim privileges it is not legally entitled to, but of the willingness of Trump's true believers to lie while under oath. In the last half-hour, we were treated to the dismantling of Lewandowski when questioned for more than five minutes by a prosecutor.

The Trump administration's refusal to follow the law also includes its refusal to provide the head of the House Means and Ways Committee with the president's tax returns. The law is crystal clear regarding their legal obligation to provide these. As we all know, the law states the administration “shall” provide them, and Democrats agree on the meaning of the word “shall.”

I've said all of this, in order to focus now on the issue of if the Democrats should impeach Trump. The Constitution clearly states that in instances where the president commits high crimes and misdemeanors, the Congress “shall” impeach the president. The majority of Democrats in the House recognize that the word “shall” is consistent in federal law and in the Constitution. And they know that the Constitution does not include a clause that recommends delaying this duty for political purposes.

I do appreciate that others are entitled to opinions that differ from my own on a whole host of issues. But the need to impeach Trump seems glaringly obvious to me. What do you think?

Peace,
H2O Man

Time for a little civics course.

Impeachment

noun
the impeaching of a public official before an appropriate tribunal.
(in Congress or a state legislature) the presentation of formal charges against a public official by the lower house, trial to be before the upper house.
demonstration that a witness is less worthy of belief.
the act of impeaching.
the state of being impeached.

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/impeachment

Impeach

verb (used with object)
to accuse (a public official) before an appropriate tribunal of misconduct in office.
Chiefly Law. to challenge the credibility of:
to impeach a witness.
to bring an accusation against.
to call in question; cast an imputation upon:
to impeach a person's motives.
to call to account.
noun
Obsolete. impeachment.

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/impeach

It means to accuse and bring charges. Does accuse mean removal? It does not mean removal. I do not see the word removal anywhere. So Impeach Trump means to Accuse Trump.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2019, 02:46:10 PM by Ptarmigan »
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Offline ADsOutburst

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Re: Impeach Trump
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2019, 03:31:48 PM »
Did anybody bother to mention that the asset was actually extracted in 2016 before the election and CNN has been castigated by its sister news organizations for shoddy reporting?
Therein lies one of the most vexing problems with fake news; even if the source gets corrected or a retraction is issued, the damage is already done.