Author Topic: We can't understand Trumpenstein's base without understanding toxic masculinity.  (Read 353 times)

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Offline dutch508

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ariadne0614 (365 posts)
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212250233

We can't understand Trumpenstein's base without understanding toxic masculinity.


“Some of the racist, sexist, and homophobic vitriol spewed at Trump rallies is performative, spewed by men who did not believe it, or at least with that intensity, but were afraid their masculinity would be questioned if they did not pose as an angry, hateful Trump supporter, who doesn’t care about your feelings. Many of Trump’s supporters engaged in the same kind of pissing contest as internet trolls, where the point was not actually to advance an idea, but to prove how tough you personally are through a specific demonstration of emotional disregard and potential, and occasionally actual, violence.”

“To put this another way, there are members of Trump’s base, especially men, who truly don’t believe in him, but feel obligated to attend his rallies, shout his slogans, and even vote for him to be real men for their friends and family. This is not to absolve them of responsibility, but to define a relationship with toxic masculinity in our search for a way out of it.”

https://www.truthdig.com/articles/the-chronic-illness-killing-generations-of-men/

 :thatsright:

S
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tar Member The Velveteen Ocelot (72,740 posts)

3. There's a lot of truth in this.

I've often thought that Trump rallies are a sort of perverse performance art, a testosterone-fueled circus for which Trump is just the ringleader, the guy with the whip getting the caged beasts riled up for the audience. They all want us to know they are real men, not like those weak, sensitive, emasculated liberals who care about feelings and nature and all that girly crap. Ever noticed how the right insults liberals by trying to feminize them? The worst thing for a real man to be called is feminine. Toxic masculinity contains a whole lot of misogyny, since being a man has to mean you're not a woman - a weak, inferior creature. And all that chest-beating at Trump rallies is just a bunch of sad guys trying to prove they're not women or people who are like women.

you ever notice the leftist always call the [R]s they hate closet gay?

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Star Member Nay (10,510 posts)

12. Yeah, they absolutely despise women, and then wonder why women avoid them. Their hate

emanates from them like a big stink and women can smell it a mile away.

And men wonder why women believe men are in it only for sex. There are whole gobs of men who don't like women, but they sure like sex, and that two-faced attitude toward women can be pretty obvious.

 :whatever:

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raccoon (27,242 posts)

31. "There are a lot of men out there who don't like women.

There are a lot of men out there who don’t like women.They are married, and they’ve got kids, but they don’t like women.” A coworker told me this back in the 80s. He was right.

 :yawn:

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shanti (19,377 posts)

15. But

unfortunately, there are plenty of women at those rallies too.  I just don't understand that.

THEY ARE ALL NAZIS!   ... but there are a lot of jews there too...
THEY ARE RACISTS!  ... but there are a lot of blacks, asians, and hispanics there too...
THEY ARE HOMOPHOBES!! .... but there are alot of gay people there as well...

might be something wrong with your methodology...

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Star Member The Velveteen Ocelot (72,740 posts)

16. Women often buy into the whole toxic masculinity thing.

Maybe it's a kind of Stockholm syndrome, but some women, possibly those who are insecure about their attractiveness to men and who think that men will like them more if they respond positively to their "masculine" behavior, seem to take on those same characteristics and cheer for the guy who is the most "manly."


uh... that's like every single woman...  :-)

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Star Member treestar (73,597 posts)

7. I've noticed that debating deplorables. Sometimes it seems they are trying to prove they are tough, not really the point at hand. There are women who do it, too

 ::)

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Star Member CrispyQ (26,320 posts)

11. Sadly, a lot of (mostly white) women have bought into it, too.

I'm still stunned that 53% of white women voted for this POS.

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LuckyCharms (5,429 posts)

17. I've always believed this to be true.

You see it all the time around where I live.

Progressive people around here don't mouth off very much. They tend to keep quiet about their political views while in mixed company.

Trumpers are the opposite: " snowflakes", "go find your safe space", back in our day someone would have kicked your ass for that", etc etc. I've actually seen male members of my extended family, who I never see in person, just online, state that women are "vessels" for an embryo, and therefore, the embryo is a separate life and pregnant women have no right to terminate an embryo.

These people are backward ****s, and they have big mouths...until you give their shit right back to them. The thing is...these people are REALLY easy to toy with, and it's really easy to embarrass them.

 :o ...   :rotf:

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Star Member RKP5637 (55,516 posts)

24. And we seemingly have a lot of backward ****s in the USA. I figured Trump would be out on his ear

when people learned what he was made of, but yet many embraced him ... which really makes me wonder about a lot of people in the US ... by what motivates them. I don't see how women can support this guy. He despises them and makes a mockery of them ... feeling he owns them. A total WTF. And the ignorance is appalling. The US is getting like a grade school playground with the GOP in charge, but even the playground was way better.

 :loser:

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Buckeyeblue (1,247 posts)

18. I'm not sure I agree

To me, the Trump people are middle to lower class white people (men and women) who believe that they are being discriminated against by policies (mostly imagined) that give minorities any type of advantage over them. These people take anecdotal stories (often without knowing the whole story) and apply it to the big picture. But they don't think of themselves as racist. But they do need to blame other people for their short comings. Trump was the first mainstream politician to address this group with very specific language. And they responded. While he hasn't (and can't) make their lives better, just being on their side is enough. That's why his support will stay around the 38-42% range.

In that 38-42% range are also the Evangelicals (or New Christians as I like to refer to them). They support Trump because he hates women's rights and gays, the two big evils. He doesn't live the life of Jesus but they don't either. In fact if Jesus came back as the middle eastern man from the Bible, he would be renounced as a fake and rejected. The New Christians have created a religion tailored to support their refined bigotry.

that would be 'fly-over' country.

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Star Member RKP5637 (55,516 posts)

25. Yep, exactly what I think too. I live in a neighborhood that is fairly nice, houses and all, but I

told someone the other day I really live in a trashy neighborhood because of the obnoxious tRump supporters. Some of them can have some money and a nice home, but underneath they are bigoted trash. ... I suspect some of them are bigoted evangelist trash. ... and I think all that you said applies to them too.

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Star Member SharonAnn (11,742 posts)

53. I live in a neighborhood full of educated and affluent, racist, bigoted trash.

 :thatsright:

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(1,247 posts)

58. 2 things

1. They think non-white groups are being given advantages that they don't have. Essentially, they think there is white discrimination. This is keeping them and their children from getting what they "deserve".

2. Religion. They hate women's rights, gay rights, most civil rights in general.

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Freelancer (1,212 posts)

42. There's a shorter word for "toxic masculinity" -- it's masculinity

There are valid points in the excerpt I read, but all I can think is that this is extremely counter productive and pointless.

It's like smoking. A whole swath of social cues and subtleties were connected to that addictive behavior. It was toxic, but it functioned as a social glue. Men bonded with it in and out of trenches. When a woman would see a man she was interested in, she'd wait until she thought he might be looking, pick up a cigarette and pretend to fumble in her purse for a lighter (mix and match genders if you like here). The invited would take the cue, and step forward offering a light, and who knows what would follow. When smoking died, that enfolded collective language that evolved organically around that admittedly toxic element died with it. That nonverbal cuing was largely replaced with nothing. "Wassup. You hammered?" isn't equivalent.

I debated a woman once who wanted all social programs ended, in favor of churches and charities taking over that role. I simply said okay. Get your system going. Develop the capacity, and we'll transfer the care responsibilities over once they're up and running. She shut up, because that was never going to happen. There was no replacement.

So, in this case, I turn the tables and ask -- what is the replacement for "toxic masculinity?" What will you hand men that works as well? If your answer is compassion and sensitivity, I'd argue that the overt expression of those traits went farther to guarantee the end of a genetic line rather than it's furthering. That's true dating back to when the evolutionary video tape stops rewinding and goes 'clack'.

Yes that's a reference to video tape machines. Go ahead and Google it.

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Star Member JI7 (73,490 posts)

65. most of them are Incels and other gross losers like Trump himself

trump is an ignorant gross unattractive pig that relates to them through shared bigotry and resentment of others.

they have a need to believe that failed pig is successful. becsuse white superiority.

 :mental:
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Offline Zathras

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We can't understand DUmbasses without learning the history of Hitler's Brownshirts, specifically what happened on Kristalnacht.
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Offline SVPete

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The only toxic "masculinity"I needed to understand was Bill Clinton.

Hillary defended Bill, Hillary enabled Bill, and Hillary attacked Bill's targets and victims.

Though it was mostly pre-Internet, DU-folk voted for Bill's defender and enabler.

DU-folk can't even recognize - let alone admit - their own unprincipled lust for power. When they profess to understand the people they hate, you know unintelligible ludicrosity will follow the claim.

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Star Member Nay (10,510 posts)

12. Yeah, they absolutely despise women, and then wonder why women avoid them. ...

I've been married to a very strong woman for well over 35 years. :rotf:  :tongue:  :rotf: She has a very weird way of avoiding me ... it almost feels like she loves me :rotf:  :tongue: .
« Last Edit: July 06, 2019, 08:48:50 PM by SVPete »
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Offline Ralph Wiggum

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LuckyCharms (5,429 posts)

17. I've always believed this to be true.

You see it all the time around where I live.

Progressive people around here don't mouth off very much. They tend to keep quiet about their political views while in mixed company.

In other words, progressive liberal men are giant pussies.  And they want it that way.  A bunch of cocoa sipping whiners being told what to do and say.

Giant, ****ing, pussies.
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Offline landofconfusion80

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tar Member The Velveteen Ocelot (72,740 posts)

3. There's a lot of truth in this.

I've often thought that Trump rallies are a sort of perverse performance art, a testosterone-fueled circus for which Trump is just the ringleader, the guy with the whip getting the caged beasts riled up for the audience. They all want us to know they are real men, not like those weak, sensitive, emasculated liberals who care about feelings and nature and all that girly crap. Ever noticed how the right insults liberals by trying to feminize them? The worst thing for a real man to be called is feminine. Toxic masculinity contains a whole lot of misogyny, since being a man has to mean you're not a woman - a weak, inferior creature. And all that chest-beating at Trump rallies is just a bunch of sad guys trying to prove they're not women or people who are like women.
Wait wait wait, so what is this liberal push for tranny rights and veganism if they aren't girly men?
« Last Edit: July 06, 2019, 08:54:22 PM by landofconfusion80 »
One Who Grows (244 posts)
20. absolute bullshit. the cave is unspeakably vile.

I don't know how any of you can live with yourselves.

:)

Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

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They just say shit to make themselves feel better.
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Offline 67 Rover

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LuckyCharms (5,429 posts)

17. I've always believed this to be true.

You see it all the time around where I live.

Progressive people around here don't mouth off very much. They tend to keep quiet about their political views while in mixed company.

Trumpers are the opposite: " snowflakes", "go find your safe space", back in our day someone would have kicked your ass for that", etc etc. I've actually seen male members of my extended family, who I never see in person, just online, state that women are "vessels" for an embryo, and therefore, the embryo is a separate life and pregnant women have no right to terminate an embryo.

These people are backward ****s, and they have big mouths...until you give their shit right back to them. The thing is...these people are REALLY easy to toy with, and it's really easy to embarrass them.

So the baby inside the pregnant woman has unique DNA, unique fingerprints, a beating heart pumping possibly a different blood type than the mother but is not a separate life??? WTF, the things they convince themselves of. :mad:
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Offline FlaGator

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Toxic Masculinity is a made-up phrase to make a natural condition sound bad despite history proving that it is the gold standard in male behavior. When women exhibit this type of behavior liberals label it as a positive feminist trait. Weird huh.
Man’s greatness is so obvious that it can even be deduced from his wretchedness, for what is nature in animals we call wretchedness in man, thus recognizing that, if his nature is today like that of the animals, he must have fallen from some better state which was once his own.
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Offline jukin

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I find it incredible that these tolerant and smart people are such losers in real life.  Why it is almost like their lives are all just made up bullshit to explain why they are such losers.

On that thread, 99.9% of the posts should be made to a mirror.
TRUMP 2017-2024 MAGA

"We are gonna win, win, win. We're going to win with military, we're going to win at the borders, we're going to win with trade, we're going to win at everything. And some of you are friends and you're going to call, and you're going to say, 'Mr. President, please, we can't take it anymore, we can't win anymore like this, Mr. President, you're driving us crazy, you're winning too much, please Mr. President, not so much, and I'm going to say I'm sorry, we're going to keep winning because we are going to make America great again."

Offline DLR Pyro

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ariadne0614 (365 posts)
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212250233

We can't understand Trumpenstein's base

No you can't.  We are far to intelligent, logical and intellectually advanced for you one celled amoeba's to understand.
Trump Won.  Get over it!

Basking in the glow of my white privilege


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Offline Aristotelian

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LuckyCharms (5,429 posts)

17. I've always believed this to be true.

You see it all the time around where I live.

Progressive people around here don't mouth off very much. They tend to keep quiet about their political views while in mixed company.

Trumpers are the opposite: " snowflakes", "go find your safe space", back in our day someone would have kicked your ass for that", etc etc. I've actually seen male members of my extended family, who I never see in person, just online, state that women are "vessels" for an embryo, and therefore, the embryo is a separate life and pregnant women have no right to terminate an embryo.

These people are backward ****s, and they have big mouths...until you give their shit right back to them. The thing is...these people are REALLY easy to toy with, and it's really easy to embarrass them.

So the baby inside the pregnant woman has unique DNA, unique fingerprints, a beating heart pumping possibly a different blood type than the mother but is not a separate life??? WTF, the things they convince themselves of. :mad:

Note how they can't quite understand the notion that the mother is a human being and the unborn child is also one. Which is why they have to make up nonsense about people claiming that pregnant mothers are mere vessels.