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Miles Archer (15,165 posts)https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212114826Nadler: "One way or the other"Last edited Tue May 21, 2019, 10:57 AM - Edit history (1)QuoteMSNBC @MSNBC Chairman Nadler: "Nothing in these unjustified and unjustifiable legal attacks will stop us from pressing forward with our work on behalf of the American people. We will hold this president accountable — one way, or the other."
MSNBC @MSNBC Chairman Nadler: "Nothing in these unjustified and unjustifiable legal attacks will stop us from pressing forward with our work on behalf of the American people. We will hold this president accountable — one way, or the other."
Perseus (2,193 posts) 1. Oh, wow, that should scare the buffoon...Another threat by Nadler, while we see "nada", nothing. Talk is cheap when is not followed by actions, and those of you who do not agree with my post, I am sorry, but that is the reality. How many times in the past month, maybe even last two years, have we heard Nadler and other Democrats threaten the buffoon and members of his party? How many times have the threats turned into real action and have produced real results? Everyone who is supporting Democrats and want to save our Democracy, we need to get angry about the lack of action, about the empty threats, it takes us nowhere.
Perseus (2,193 posts) 27. Impeach, begin impeachment processAs I understand it, to begin impeachment process allows Democrats to get all the documentation they need, including the unredacted Muller report, to subpoena all involved and the courts will make sure that it is done because it is the law that would support such move. Impeach Barr, and the buffoon, both. Barr's wings have to be cut, he can no longer stay there. That is what I would tell Nadler to do, and I would tell him to stop with threats, just tell us what you have done that produced results. I would also tell him to reject Don Jr's conditions, he must respond to a subpoena and he has no right, by the law, to change the rules. Hillary Clinton appeared in front of a corrupt congress for eleven hours, I am sure Jr can do the same. Why has he not acted on the "contempt" against Barr? Its your turn to tell us all how it works, saying that "I don't know how it works" without providing your understanding doesn't help anyone. I would love for you to explain in detail and put my mind, and many others, at ease.
Star Member StarfishSaver (912 posts) 37. Impeachment doesn't allow "Democrats to get all the documentation they need"In fact, it doesn't give them any more ability to get such things as the unredacted Mueller report, to subpoena all involved, or to compel the courts to do rule than they already have. Everything Nadler is doing is exactly the same thing he would do if an impeachment inquiry had started. He's going through the same processes and following the same requirements, all of which a court would require before ruling on anything - just the same as would occur in an impeachment inquiry. In fact, it is possible to obtain some of these things easier and quicker through a non-impeachment process. For example, Adam Schiff has already subpoenaed the unredacted Mueller report as part of the intelligence investigation into the Russian interference and compromise investigation. Intelligence Committees often have more justification for such materials and their requests are given more deference because of their sensitivity than other kinds of investigations. As to your question about acting on contempt against Barr, he HAS acted and is going through the necessary steps complete it. I understand your frustrations - and share them. But there are processes that must be followed to get what we want and Nadler, Pelosi and the others are doing it. And these processes wouldn't be eliminated or made any easier by an impeachment inquiry.
Perseus (2,193 posts) 55. I like your explanation, but I have also read of the benefits of impeachment at this pointThe problem that I, and many others, feel and the reason we are frustrated is because the course of action you explain is too slow, and there is a chance that it will take us to 2020. I have seen and lived similar situations, I know how fast crooks move, and we can all agree GOP is moving very fast, more now with Barr, that is why I feel Democrats need to find the speediest action to get results that would avoid having these crooks run for office come 2020. "Judges have repeatedly ruled that Congress has a greater claim to sensitive government documents and personal information when it can point to an ongoing legal matter, instead of just a congressional investigation or legislative debate. And impeachment would give lawmakers that legal matter — the process is essentially a court procedure run by Congress where the House brings charges and the Senate holds the trial …" [link:http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/05/is-impeachment-essential-to-house-investigations-of-trump.html| Indeed, impeachment might not only “trump” executive privilege in a court review of congressional subpoenas, but could also give courts a solid reason to speed up hearings and appeals on the subject, much as the U.S. Supreme Court did in United States v. Nixon, the unanimous decision forcing that president to release tapes which included the famous “smoking gun” evidence of obstruction of justice. In that case, SCOTUS ruled just three weeks after oral argument subsequent to an expedited appeal from a district court. Thank you for your polite answer. I understand what you are saying, but I am still doubtful anything will happen on time, the danger that Barr poses is tremendous, he can change the laws, that is what is done when you want to stay in power, that is exactly what I have seen done somewhere else, and suddenly those course of actions are no longer valid.
Star Member George II (38,272 posts) 3. These guys are playing into the Democrats' hands. Analysis is that Nadler WANTED McGahn........to be a no-show so the Democrats can take the next step toward impeachment. These folks - Pelosi, Nadler, Cummings, Neal, Waters - ALL have a coordinated plan. It may take a while, but they're dealing with republican simpletons.
Star Member BSdetect (5,863 posts) 4. Without action we are in effect living under a feudal monarchy.
dlk (4,556 posts) 8. McGahn has Ties to Organized Crime-He's Not ScaredLock him up, anyway.
Star Member Grasswire2 (3,805 posts) 33. Rev Al says.......that when your opponent is street fighting with broken bottles and shivs (as Trump's team is) you must fight back in a way that inflicts pain. Trump is a mob boss and his fighters are thugs. The dirtiest, unprincipled thugs. They fight dirty and they taunt you while they do so. The dainty quainty steps of Marquess of Queensbury rules must be set aside as the primary goal here and PAIN MUST BE INFLICTED BY DEMS. Tag team if you must. Good cop, bad cop them if you must. But DEMS MUST INFLICT SOME PAIN NOW. NOW. NOW.
Star Member muntrv (12,696 posts) 10. Start arresting people for ****s sake.
Star Member ooky (2,486 posts) 34. For godsakes get on with the damn arrests, fines, etc.Stop talking about it and ****ing DO IT! No more talk. All that hearing accomplished today was to give Collins an opportunity to deliver his bullshit.
Star Member ooky (2,486 posts) 80. Bullshit.I never claimed to be an expert about this shit, and I don't need to do "research". Our elected officials need to take action and stop talking about it on MSNBC all day long every damn day. We've listened on MSNBC elected officials and pundits and supposedly knowledgable people talk about how they can conduct arrests, fines, etc. for witnesses they call that refuse to show up. All I'm saying now is DO IT and stop talking. I want to see the arrests and fines they've been talking about.
bubbazero (32 posts) 53. INHERENT CONTEMPTUpon a vote of inherent contempt the sergeant of arms of the chamber that passed this resolution would then---with the assistance of CAPITOL POLICE have the necessary authority to arrest and detain whomever the person was which the resolution named. AG Barr has DOJ security around him, but any attempt to use that security to stop this arrest and detainment would be illegal---any DOJ individual who took it upon themselves to resist such action would be also criminally liable--they would be allowed to provide security as all ways-- but no other assisatance such as communications or information. Really no difference then when FEDS show up to arrest state level official--or STATE TROOPERS along with State Law enforcement arrest local officials-- upto and including COUNTY SHERRIFFS AND CHIEF OF POLICE--------their is no jail in the capitol--that originally was to be George Washington's tomb. Can either be help at Capitol Police off site holding facility--or hotel -- as was done in the 1930's------then is brought to trial in the legislative chamber that passed the INHERENT CONTEMPT---punishment set by chamber. YES I AM PROBABLY NOT 100% THIS BUT I THINK IT WOULD BE A GOOD TIME FOR A REFRESHER FOR ALL OF US
Star Member zentrum (7,694 posts) 94. How?How will he enforce the rule of law? The system is broken. Need all our Dems to have a plan B, a next step. Maybe they need to call the entire nation into the streets to create pressure. Thins like that. So far I see nothing about a plan for enforcement. The clock will run out as the courts grind through all this. With Trump insisting on Executive Branch privilege for every aspect of any court order. So again---How? How? How?
