Author Topic: Federal tax sticker shock in "blue states".  (Read 427 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Texacon

  • Super
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8894
  • Reputation: +506/-50
  • All The Way!
Federal tax sticker shock in "blue states".
« on: April 07, 2019, 04:31:11 PM »
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211991236


Quote
no_hypocrisy
Federal tax sticker shock in "blue states".

I live in northern NJ which is one of those states where the $10,000 cap on SALT (deductions for state and municipal taxes) is problematic. The cap is the result of the Trump tax "cuts".

My local property taxes are more than $15,000 annually. The breakdown is 68% school taxes, 20% municipal services/taxes, 11% county taxes, and 1% library taxes.

Not only am I paying taxes TWICE for municipal/state taxes, but the blithe advice from DC is to cut municipal taxes for a remedy. Cut where? Lay off teachers? Cut benefits? Deny pensions? Larger class sizes? Close school buildings?

Meanwhile, the extra taxes I have to pay are applied to school systems in Arkansas, the Carolinas, North Dakota, Idaho, etc.


This is interesting ...


Quote
StillFeelingTheBern
5. Educate me on NJ Property Tax...
I would think $15,000 in property taxes means that your house is $750,000+. If that is true, I think it is right that you are giving your fair share. I don't like how people complain about needing to tax the rich, but then when they are taxed, and they are rich, they are up in arms.

Quote
lostnfound
9. Understand: $750,000 in stock account pay zero tax. "Home owners" may own only $100K of house.
It is true that a person who can buy a $750,000 home probably needs at least $100,000 in down payment plus solid fairly high household income — probably around $140,000 or so. Their housing cost might be about $50,000 per year including $35,000 in mortgage and $15,000 in property tax. They typically choose the house for the sake of kids in a safe school OR to have a shorter commute.

->A rich person who has $750,000 in actual cash pays nothing — no federal tax, no “property tax” — on that cash.

_>An upper middle income person who has $100,000 in equity in a $750,000 house that has $15,000 property taxes used to get a deduction for the mortgage interest (in the early years, maybe $20,000 of it) and the taxes of $15,000. So the $35,000 of that annual bill did not get federal income tax. Now, only $10,000 is deductible. So there’s been a $25,000 change in taxable income based on GOP policy against upper middle income professionals in blue states.


Got that?!  If you make $140,000 ‘or so’, you too can buy a home for $750,000!!

LOL you heard it here first.


Quote
StillFeelingTheBern
12. 2 things
$750,000 in stocks, you pay your income tax rate on dividends every single year. Also, the stock isn't occupying land and providing services to you (police, fire, schools, etc).

On house on the other hand, you have to provide the necessary evidence to the bank that you can afford it. Someone getting approved for a $500k+ mortgage is rich, no two ways about it. They are paying their fair share and can afford it.


Quote
lostnfound
30. Not all stocks get dividends. Single mom here just trying to cope with downsizing
So whoever you are and whatever you think, you obviously don’t live in a state with high property taxes. You obviously weren’t downsized. You obviously aren’t trying to cope with too many damn decisions and a brain that seems to be dying and falling apart.
I can’t afford it. And I want to move, but just trying to stay alive long enough to do that, in spite of a variety of stresses, not least of which is not being sure i want to keep living in a world with negativity and trolls and fake crap being spewed.

I don’t mind paying my fair share. But you didn’t do the math on what I just described.

I happily pay $50,000 a year so that the public schools in my neighborhood are well funded even though my kid is no longer able to attend them. Can’t afford that anymore, after job downsizing, and may find an open window soon. But I wasn’t counting on $70,000 instead, due to new tax structure.

Government used to encourage homeownership, that’s changing

Dividends? What crap. The big money in the market is rising stock value and that gets taxed at half the rate of regular income.

I was a Bernie supporter too by the way. LAST time. Because I believed inequality needed to be addressed.

Sounds like you actually LIKE the GOP tax plan. Haha. What a joke their plan is.

Quote
StillFeelingTheBern
12. 2 things
$750,000 in stocks, you pay your income tax rate on dividends every single year. Also, the stock isn't occupying land and providing services to you (police, fire, schools, etc).

On house on the other hand, you have to provide the necessary evidence to the bank that you can afford it. Someone getting approved for a $500k+ mortgage is rich, no two ways about it. They are paying their fair share and can afford it.

Quote
lostnfound
30. Not all stocks get dividends. Single mom here just trying to cope with downsizing
So whoever you are and whatever you think, you obviously don’t live in a state with high property taxes. You obviously weren’t downsized. You obviously aren’t trying to cope with too many damn decisions and a brain that seems to be dying and falling apart.
I can’t afford it. And I want to move, but just trying to stay alive long enough to do that, in spite of a variety of stresses, not least of which is not being sure i want to keep living in a world with negativity and trolls and fake crap being spewed.

I don’t mind paying my fair share. But you didn’t do the math on what I just described.

I happily pay $50,000 a year so that the public schools in my neighborhood are well funded even though my kid is no longer able to attend them. Can’t afford that anymore, after job downsizing, and may find an open window soon. But I wasn’t counting on $70,000 instead, due to new tax structure.

Government used to encourage homeownership, that’s changing

Dividends? What crap. The big money in the market is rising stock value and that gets taxed at half the rate of regular income.

I was a Bernie supporter too by the way. LAST time. Because I believed inequality needed to be addressed.

Sounds like you actually LIKE the GOP tax plan. Haha. What a joke their plan is.

Quote
StillFeelingTheBern
38. A couple points from your post
If I understood your post correctly, you paying $50,000 a year in taxes means that you are making $200K+ correct? I don't know which state you are in so I can't confirm but $50k in taxes means you make a sizable income. I would LOVE to be in a position where I am paying $50k in taxes, it means I'm making a boatload.

You stated I must like the GOP tax plan. I hate it. I'm just speaking from experience in my profession (CPA) and pointing out some inaccuracies so we can all be better educated to fight the Right.


  :rotf:


KC
  Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day.  Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

*Stolen

Offline landofconfusion80

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2848
  • Reputation: +280/-107
Re: Federal tax sticker shock in "blue states".
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2019, 05:10:18 PM »
The salt thing is great until the primitives do the math and bring their political cancer to red states
One Who Grows (244 posts)
20. absolute bullshit. the cave is unspeakably vile.

I don't know how any of you can live with yourselves.

:)

Offline zeitgeist

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5991
  • Reputation: +332/-42
Re: Federal tax sticker shock in "blue states".
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2019, 05:26:35 PM »
The salt thing is great until the primitives do the math and bring their political cancer to red states

Saw a great line:  Democrats don't move to Red States, they metastasize.  :popcorn:
Should one a man of wisdom meet
who points out faults and gives reproof,
who lays a hidden treasure bare,
with such a sage should one consort.
Consorting so is one enriched
and never in decline.

Offline jukin

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13606
  • Reputation: +916/-164
Re: Federal tax sticker shock in "blue states".
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2019, 05:56:55 PM »
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA

takes deep hacking breath...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHAHA


Pay your ****ing share DUCHEBAG!!
TRUMP 2017-2024 MAGA

"We are gonna win, win, win. We're going to win with military, we're going to win at the borders, we're going to win with trade, we're going to win at everything. And some of you are friends and you're going to call, and you're going to say, 'Mr. President, please, we can't take it anymore, we can't win anymore like this, Mr. President, you're driving us crazy, you're winning too much, please Mr. President, not so much, and I'm going to say I'm sorry, we're going to keep winning because we are going to make America great again."

Offline FlaGator

  • Another Pilgrim
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4158
  • Reputation: +383/-29
  • Stand firm in the faith; be men of courage
Re: Federal tax sticker shock in "blue states".
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2019, 06:21:26 PM »
I guess the property tax rate in NJ is extreme. My home is worth quite a bit and my taxes come to around $4,500.
Man’s greatness is so obvious that it can even be deduced from his wretchedness, for what is nature in animals we call wretchedness in man, thus recognizing that, if his nature is today like that of the animals, he must have fallen from some better state which was once his own.
Blaise Pascal

Offline Ptarmigan

  • Bunny Slayer
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19168
  • Reputation: +598/-222
  • God Hates Bunnies
Re: Federal tax sticker shock in "blue states".
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2019, 06:24:48 PM »
Quote
no_hypocrisy
Federal tax sticker shock in "blue states".

I live in northern NJ which is one of those states where the $10,000 cap on SALT (deductions for state and municipal taxes) is problematic. The cap is the result of the Trump tax "cuts".

My local property taxes are more than $15,000 annually. The breakdown is 68% school taxes, 20% municipal services/taxes, 11% county taxes, and 1% library taxes.

Not only am I paying taxes TWICE for municipal/state taxes, but the blithe advice from DC is to cut municipal taxes for a remedy. Cut where? Lay off teachers? Cut benefits? Deny pensions? Larger class sizes? Close school buildings?

Meanwhile, the extra taxes I have to pay are applied to school systems in Arkansas, the Carolinas, North Dakota, Idaho, etc.

Quote
StillFeelingTheBern
5. Educate me on NJ Property Tax...
I would think $15,000 in property taxes means that your house is $750,000+. If that is true, I think it is right that you are giving your fair share. I don't like how people complain about needing to tax the rich, but then when they are taxed, and they are rich, they are up in arms.

Quote
lostnfound
9. Understand: $750,000 in stock account pay zero tax. "Home owners" may own only $100K of house.
It is true that a person who can buy a $750,000 home probably needs at least $100,000 in down payment plus solid fairly high household income — probably around $140,000 or so. Their housing cost might be about $50,000 per year including $35,000 in mortgage and $15,000 in property tax. They typically choose the house for the sake of kids in a safe school OR to have a shorter commute.

->A rich person who has $750,000 in actual cash pays nothing — no federal tax, no “property tax” — on that cash.

_>An upper middle income person who has $100,000 in equity in a $750,000 house that has $15,000 property taxes used to get a deduction for the mortgage interest (in the early years, maybe $20,000 of it) and the taxes of $15,000. So the $35,000 of that annual bill did not get federal income tax. Now, only $10,000 is deductible. So there’s been a $25,000 change in taxable income based on GOP policy against upper middle income professionals in blue states.

Quote
StillFeelingTheBern
12. 2 things
$750,000 in stocks, you pay your income tax rate on dividends every single year. Also, the stock isn't occupying land and providing services to you (police, fire, schools, etc).

On house on the other hand, you have to provide the necessary evidence to the bank that you can afford it. Someone getting approved for a $500k+ mortgage is rich, no two ways about it. They are paying their fair share and can afford it.

Quote
lostnfound
30. Not all stocks get dividends. Single mom here just trying to cope with downsizing
So whoever you are and whatever you think, you obviously don’t live in a state with high property taxes. You obviously weren’t downsized. You obviously aren’t trying to cope with too many damn decisions and a brain that seems to be dying and falling apart.
I can’t afford it. And I want to move, but just trying to stay alive long enough to do that, in spite of a variety of stresses, not least of which is not being sure i want to keep living in a world with negativity and trolls and fake crap being spewed.

I don’t mind paying my fair share. But you didn’t do the math on what I just described.

I happily pay $50,000 a year so that the public schools in my neighborhood are well funded even though my kid is no longer able to attend them. Can’t afford that anymore, after job downsizing, and may find an open window soon. But I wasn’t counting on $70,000 instead, due to new tax structure.

Government used to encourage homeownership, that’s changing

Dividends? What crap. The big money in the market is rising stock value and that gets taxed at half the rate of regular income.

I was a Bernie supporter too by the way. LAST time. Because I believed inequality needed to be addressed.

Sounds like you actually LIKE the GOP tax plan. Haha. What a joke their plan is.

Quote
StillFeelingTheBern
38. A couple points from your post
If I understood your post correctly, you paying $50,000 a year in taxes means that you are making $200K+ correct? I don't know which state you are in so I can't confirm but $50k in taxes means you make a sizable income. I would LOVE to be in a position where I am paying $50k in taxes, it means I'm making a boatload.

You stated I must like the GOP tax plan. I hate it. I'm just speaking from experience in my profession (CPA) and pointing out some inaccuracies so we can all be better educated to fight the Right.

Well gees. How do I break this to you.
:ownit:
Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.
-Napoleon Bonaparte

Allow enemies their space to hate; they will destroy themselves in the process.
-Lisa Du

Offline SVPete

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15870
  • Reputation: +934/-173
Re: Federal tax sticker shock in "blue states".
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2019, 06:25:45 PM »
I probably took a hit, too. Unlike DUpipo, I'm not whining, because I've voted against the tax-and-spenders the D and Prog voters put in office. I don't love getting :spork: ed, but the moronic D and Prog voters need to learn the hard way.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2019, 07:55:22 AM by SVPete »
Facts don't matter to DUpipo

Note to "Warpy": I voted for Donald Trump! I would do so again!

Big CHEETO is WATCHING You!

Offline Old n Grumpy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3339
  • Reputation: +304/-8
Re: Federal tax sticker shock in "blue states".
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2019, 05:03:26 AM »
Quote
no_hypocrisy
Federal tax sticker shock in "blue states".

I live in northern NJ which is one of those states where the $10,000 cap on SALT (deductions for state and municipal taxes) is problematic. The cap is the result of the Trump tax "cuts".

My local property taxes are more than $15,000 annually. The breakdown is 68% school taxes, Indoctrination is expensive 20% municipal services/taxes, 11% county taxes, and 1% library taxes.

Not only am I paying taxes TWICE for municipal/state taxes,Not sure how you figure that. but the blithe advice from DC is to cut municipal taxes for a remedy. Cut where? Lay off teachers? Cut benefits? Deny pensions? Larger class sizes? Close school buildings?All great solutions and you forgot votr for conservatives.

Meanwhile, the extra taxes I have to pay are applied to school systems in Arkansas, the Carolinas, North Dakota, Idaho, etc.
You thought it was great when the shoe was on the other foot.
Basking in the glow of my white Privilege, while I water the Begonias with liberal tears!

Air is Free, that's why we need a carbon tax.

I will give up my guns when the liberals give up their illegal aliens

We need a Bull Shit tax to make the Democrats go broke!

Offline USA4ME

  • Evil Capitalist
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12308
  • Reputation: +1448/-67
Re: Federal tax sticker shock in "blue states".
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2019, 09:27:17 AM »
Reading through their replies, they claim they don't mind the tax, but that the excess money they're paying is going to "red states". IOW, if the same tax was taking place, but the states that were benefiting were those who voted the way the primitives believed they should, this wouldn't be an issue.

Care and compassion; as long as you do things our way.

How many totalitarian/authoritarian regimes does that remind you of? Well, except for *all* of them?

.
Because third world peasant labor is a good thing.


Offline freedumb2003b

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4781
  • Reputation: +504/-70
Re: Federal tax sticker shock in "blue states".
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2019, 09:34:57 AM »
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA

takes deep hacking breath...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHAHA


Pay your ****ing share DUCHEBAG!!

The evil rich DARE to show their heads at DU?   And complain about PAYING TAXES???

Freaking hilarious.

BTW I have owned my home completely for years and even when I was in CA my interest rate was so low that I still took the standard deduction.

FWIIW, I have an S Corp and my income is extremely variable.  I *think* Trump saved me $20K last year.
Measure with a micrometer, mark with chalk, cut with an ax

Hello to the Baizuo lurkers from DU, DI, JPR and Huffpo

DUmmies can no more understand the "Cave" than a rat can understand a thunderbolt, but they fear it just the same. Fear the "Cave", DUmmies. Fear it well. Big Dog 12-Jan-2015

Proud charter member of the Death Squad Hate Force! https://conservativecave.com/home/index.php?topic=112331.msg1386168#msg1386168

Ted Kennedy is the only person with an actual confirmed kill in the war on women.

Offline fatboy

  • Does this gun make me look fat?
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2083
  • Reputation: +451/-54
  • skinnier than the average primitive
Re: Federal tax sticker shock in "blue states".
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2019, 09:54:02 AM »
Quote
Response to no_hypocrisy (Original post)

Sun Apr 7, 2019, 08:48 PM

allgood33 (1,568 posts)

61. Then you must vote accordingly.
 
I know lots of voters in NJ who voted for Trump. I'm waiting for a law suit.


Still crazy after all these years.
"We will bring back our jobs. We will bring back our borders. We will bring back our wealth - and we will bring back our dreams!" -President Donald J. Trump 1/20/17

“The more Hillary goes on television the more the American people realize how awesome it is to have @realDonaldTrump in office." -Donald Trump Jr. 1/29/18

"You've been talking about Russia for the last three years, all day, every day then all of a sudden it comes out that the whole thing is a hoax...and all of a sudden they want to talk about health care. “This is why they're going to lose. This is why they're going to lose in 2020.”
-Eric Trump 4/12/19

"Maybe third time’s the charm for Joe Biden to at least win the nomination" -Laura Trump 4/24/19

Offline freedumb2003b

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4781
  • Reputation: +504/-70
Re: Federal tax sticker shock in "blue states".
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2019, 10:13:18 AM »
Quote
BobTheSubgenius (3,592 posts)

55. There should be NO transfer payments to states that aren't even trying to raise thei own revenue.


WTH??? There have not been "transfer payments" since the 70s!
Measure with a micrometer, mark with chalk, cut with an ax

Hello to the Baizuo lurkers from DU, DI, JPR and Huffpo

DUmmies can no more understand the "Cave" than a rat can understand a thunderbolt, but they fear it just the same. Fear the "Cave", DUmmies. Fear it well. Big Dog 12-Jan-2015

Proud charter member of the Death Squad Hate Force! https://conservativecave.com/home/index.php?topic=112331.msg1386168#msg1386168

Ted Kennedy is the only person with an actual confirmed kill in the war on women.

Offline VelvetElvis

  • Misunderestimated
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1243
  • Reputation: +118/-5
  • Drill Sgt for the DeathSquadHateForce
Re: Federal tax sticker shock in "blue states".
« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2019, 12:55:29 PM »
I live in Wisconsin, and when I did my taxes, I was surprised to see that I too was affected by the SALT restrictions, and thus couldn't deduct all of my state income and property taxes, unlike in previous years. For the first time in more than 30 years, my wife and I actually used the standard deduction instead of itemizing.

In spite of this fact, we still ended up paying several thousand LESS in taxes than we did in the Utopian times of of the Lightbringer.

Now I'm just whistling past the graveyard hoping that our Union tool governor Taxin' Tony Evers doesn't mess up the improved tax picture that Scott Walker fought so hard to bring us in spite of the freaking teachers unions and public employees unions.

MAGA!

 
Proud Member of the Death Squad Hate Force Since  1980

Offline SVPete

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15870
  • Reputation: +934/-173
Re: Federal tax sticker shock in "blue states".
« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2019, 01:24:31 PM »
Quote
BobTheSubgenius (3,592 posts)

55. There should be NO transfer payments to states that aren't even trying to raise thei own revenue.

So the aptly named Bob believes the proper function of government is to bleed its people white. Unsurprising.
Facts don't matter to DUpipo

Note to "Warpy": I voted for Donald Trump! I would do so again!

Big CHEETO is WATCHING You!

Offline 67 Rover

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3683
  • Reputation: +402/-36
Re: Federal tax sticker shock in "blue states".
« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2019, 02:15:59 PM »
Just received a call from our CPA , the difference between federal and state make it a wash.  Just as intended.  No free loans to the feds from us.

Suck it DUmmies.  :popcorn:
NRA Benefactor member
G.O.A. Life member
G.O.A.L. Life member
Certified Law Enforcement Sig Armorer

Offline DLR Pyro

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6078
  • Reputation: +956/-21
Re: Federal tax sticker shock in "blue states".
« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2019, 02:33:21 PM »
Quote
I live in northern NJ which is one of those states where the $10,000 cap on SALT (deductions for state and municipal taxes) is problematic. The cap is the result of the Trump tax "cuts".

Why should the federal government and taxpayers out of your state subsidize your state's massive tax rate?
Trump Won.  Get over it!

Basking in the glow of my white privilege


Police lives matter.

Offline Adam Wood

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 781
  • Reputation: +75/-28
Re: Federal tax sticker shock in "blue states".
« Reply #16 on: April 09, 2019, 03:12:12 PM »
I guess the property tax rate in NJ is extreme. My home is worth quite a bit and my taxes come to around $4,500.
No kidding!

I haven't owned a home for several years (by choice), but IIRC, my last tax bill was around $2800 on an assessed value of about $400K (the calculations are a little wonky in Nashville; assessed value doesn't really accurately reflect actual market value most of the time, and my actual market value at the time was much closer to about $325K).  My brother owns a multi-million-dollar mansion in a manicured, gated community and he still doesn't pay half of $15K in taxes (he's in the lower tax rate General Services District, whereas I was in the higher Urban Services District; that all gets into some antiquated divisions from the early '60s, but the short version is that living in the Urban Services District basically means having the most expensive trash collection in the country).

Offline YupItsMe

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 856
  • Reputation: +82/-6
Re: Federal tax sticker shock in "blue states".
« Reply #17 on: April 09, 2019, 05:00:03 PM »
  I live in VT, We're taxed pretty high on property values.  That happens when you don't let any businesses into your state.  VT has a system where your property taxes can't be more than 5% of your gross income.  The difference goes from your potential state tax refund to your municipal tax.  I ave to admit I'd be screwed without it.  But if I had to I'd downsize.  Having a 4 bedroom house was nice when I had a wife and 3 children living there, but they're all gone now.  I've been blessed and worked and saved pretty hard to live in a pretty nice neighborhood, but I could easily find a home in a nearby down that would have half the property value.

Offline landofconfusion80

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2848
  • Reputation: +280/-107
Re: Federal tax sticker shock in "blue states".
« Reply #18 on: April 09, 2019, 09:48:49 PM »
So the aptly named Bob believes the proper function of government is to bleed its people white. Unsurprising.
Seems appropriate
One Who Grows (244 posts)
20. absolute bullshit. the cave is unspeakably vile.

I don't know how any of you can live with yourselves.

:)