Author Topic: Seven Brits among 157 dead after Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes just minutes a  (Read 270 times)

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Offline Ptarmigan

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Seven Brits among 157 dead after Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes just minutes after take off amid anger rescue services took TWO HOURS to reach the site as safety record of 737 is questioned
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6791675/Ethiopian-Airlines-plane-way-Nairobi-crashes-157-people-board.html

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An Ethiopian Airlines plane has crashed killing 149 passengers and 8 crew onboard, just minutes after take-off.

The plane heading to Nairobi left Ethiopia this morning but came down within six minutes - 37 miles from Addis Ababa International Airport.

Seven British nationals were onboard the plane at the time, while there were eighteen Canadians, eight Americans and 32 Kenyan nationals.

What was going on before the crash.

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According to Swedish flight-tracking website flightradar24 the flight 'had unstable vertical speed' shortly after take off.

Aviation experts have said this is extremely unusual. Once a plane has taken off the vertical speed is expected to rise during ascent or remain stable. Figures shown today reveal how the speed dramatically fluctuated.

Aviation expert Sally Gethin explained unstable vertical speed.

She said: 'It's the rate of climb or descent - the most critical phases of flight. Instability at that point e.g. too slow - could destabilise the aircraft, potentially risking stalling and other hazardous consequences. Might indicate the pilots had difficulty controlling the climb/ascent.'

The vertical speed was unstable and fluctuating. The airplane involved is 737 MAX 8. It is the same airplane involved in Lion Air Flight 610 crash.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2019, 10:47:06 AM by Ptarmigan »
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Offline Old n Grumpy

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Who in their right mind would want to fly on Ethiopian air? :thatsright:
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Offline Zathras

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Two possibilities come to my mind. It sounds like either engine failure or the flaps not in the correct configuration for takeoff is what caused the crash to me.

Not an expert on air crashes but from what I've seen watching Air Disasters on the Smithsonian channel.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2019, 08:43:32 PM by Zathras »
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Offline Ausonius

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Who in their right mind would want to fly on Ethiopian air? :thatsright:

True!  Any third-world airline is always a risk.

A little gallows humor...

Third-World Airlines have a a not very well known slogan: "You might be shaking hands with Jesus!"
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Offline Ptarmigan

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In Consultation with the FAA, NTSB and its Customers, Boeing Supports Action to Temporarily Ground 737 MAX Operations
https://boeing.mediaroom.com/news-releases-statements?item=130404

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March 13, 2019 – Boeing continues to have full confidence in the safety of the 737 MAX.  However, after consultation with the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), the U.S. National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB), and aviation authorities and its customers around the world, Boeing has determined -- out of an abundance of caution and in order to reassure the flying public of the aircraft’s safety -- to recommend to the FAA the temporary suspension of operations of the entire global fleet of 371 737 MAX aircraft.

Boeing 737 MAX have been suspended in America.
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Offline Ptarmigan

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Pilots trained for Boeing’s 737 Max airplane with “an iPad lesson for an hour”
https://qz.com/1574878/pilots-trained-for-boeing-737-max-with-one-hour-ipad-lesson/

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US pilots got an extra hour or two of training to prepare to use Boeing’s new 737 Max 8 aircraft, which has been involved in two deadly crashes in less than six months.

The first crash involved a Lion Air flight in Indonesia that plunged into the sea soon after takeoff in October last year, killing all 189 on board. A week ago, an Ethiopian Airlines flight crashed six minutes after taking off, killing 157 people. After the second crash, China grounded the aircraft, and was quickly followed by other nations. The US Federal Aviation Administration initially allowed airlines in the US to keep flying the plane, but on Wednesday (March 13) grounded both the Max 8 and Max 9 models, citing refined satellite data and “physical evidence” found at the scene that showed similarities between the two crashes.

Pilots training for the Boeing 737 MAX got minimum training. No mention of the MCAS system.
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In the US, Southwest Airlines has 31 of the 737 Max planes, American Airlines 24, and United 14, according to Boeing data through February. Dennis Tajer, spokesman for the American Airlines pilot union, told Quartz that the training prior to the Lion Air crash for pilots qualified to fly the 737-800 amounted to “an iPad lesson for an hour.” Since the Lion Air crash, he said, pilots have had training with an instructor, and pilots have also “requested, if not demanded, simulators.”

In a statement, American Airlines said, “Boeing 737-800 pilots were required to receive some additional training on the MAX 8, which included an hour lesson on some differences. Additional training was not required, as the 737-800 and the MAX 8 have same type certification.”

A New York Times report (paywall) said pilots at United put together a 13-page guide to the 737 Max, which did not mention the MCAS, as well as taking a two-hour iPad lesson about the plane.
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Offline Ptarmigan

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Boeing Didn't Tell Southwest Or FAA That It Had Disabled Critical Safety Alerts On 737 MAX
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-04-28/boeing-didnt-tell-southwest-or-faa-it-had-disabled-critical-safety-alerts-737-max

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It was a bad enough look for Boeing when reporters uncovered the company's decision to make some safety features optional on its 737 MAX 8s. Worse still that this decision was only made public after the deadly crash of Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302 just minutes after takeoff on March 10 - the second deadly crash involving the plane in six months, which spurred regulators around the world to ground the planes, erasing billions of dollars of Boeing market cap.

But a report in the Wall Street Journal published on Sunday that neither Southwest Airlines nor the FAA (Boeing's primary federal regulator) were aware that a safety feature intended to alert pilots to a potentially malfunctioning 'angle of attack' sensor - in other words, a feature that might have prevented both the crash of ET302 and the Oct. 29 crash of a 737 owned by Lion Air - had been disabled on the new 737s is simply staggering.

Boeing did not disclose that it disabled critical safety features. That is really serious.
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Offline Ptarmigan

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Boeing Knew About Safety-Alert Problem for a Year Before Telling FAA, Airlines
https://www.wsj.com/articles/boeing-knew-about-safety-alert-problem-for-a-year-before-telling-faa-airlines-11557087129

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Boeing Co. BA 0.18% didn’t share information about a problem with a cockpit safety alert for about a year before the issue drew attention with the October crash of a 737 MAX jet in Indonesia, and then gave some airlines and pilots partial and inconsistent explanations, according to industry and government officials.

It was only after a second MAX accident in Ethiopia nearly five months later, these officials said, that Boeing became more forthcoming with airlines about the problem. And the company didn’t publicly disclose the software error behind the problem for another six weeks, in the interim leaving the flying public and, according to a Federal Aviation Administration spokesman, the agency’s acting chief unaware.

Boeing knew the problem, but kept silent.
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Offline a777pilot

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"Boeing knew the problem, but kept silent."

There was no problem.  What is needed are third world pilots with an IQ greater than a grapefruit to operate the controls.

Both accidents were a result of pilot error and had nothing to do with the aircraft itself.

p.s.,  I speak as a 40 year pilot and as a retired AA Captain.

Offline DLR Pyro

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"Boeing knew the problem, but kept silent."

There was no problem.  What is needed are third world pilots with an IQ greater than a grapefruit to operate the controls.

Both accidents were a result of pilot error and had nothing to do with the aircraft itself.

p.s.,  I speak as a 40 year pilot and as a retired AA Captain.

Since the 2 deadly accidents, I've always been suspect that the airlines that suffered the crashes were 3rd world carriers while the more established carriers have been flying the 800 without any incidents.
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