Author Topic: So many stores are closing and reorganizing. Where is the booming economy?  (Read 387 times)

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Online CC27

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mfcorey1 (8,656 posts)


So many stores are closing and reorganizing. Where is the booming economy?

 
JC Penny's
Footlocker
Payless
Gap
Victoria's Secrets
Sears

More and more mall space remains vacant. Some are downsizing and have fallen victims to online shopping. However, brick and mortar elimination affects jobs. That's why I can't reconcile this increase in the job market.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211899514


All of those stores are outdated and needed to go.

Offline USA4ME

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The primitive is right. It's getting to where you can't find a descent buggy whip in the general store, much less get employed as a switchboard operator or a log driver anymore.

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Offline 67 Rover

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The primitive is right. It's getting to where you can't find a descent buggy whip in the general store, much less get employed as a switchboard operator or a log driver anymore.

.

I understand they are still hiring TTY operators though but you have to tolerate a lot of homophobia and racism or something.  :p
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Offline BadCat

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Booming around here, maybe not in the blue shitholes that primitives live in.
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Offline USA4ME

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I understand they are still hiring TTY operators though but you have to tolerate a lot of homophobia and racism or something.  :p

Small price to pay to keep outdated businesses open and the jobs they create.  :-)

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Offline Ralph Wiggum

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mfcorey1 (8,656 posts)


So many stores are closing and reorganizing. Where is the booming economy?

 
JC Penny's
Footlocker
Payless
Gap
Victoria's Secrets
Sears

More and more mall space remains vacant. Some are downsizing and have fallen victims to online shopping. However, brick and mortar elimination affects jobs. That's why I can't reconcile this increase in the job market.

Amazon.  Like Walmart 20-30 years ago, they are running smaller and less well run companies out of business.

Survival of the fittest.  Like it or not.

Malls have been failing for decades, DUmmy. This isn't a new anomaly in the Trump economy.
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Offline Mr Mannn

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Offline 67 Rover

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All of those stores are outdated and needed to go.

Hoping they add Dick's sporting goods and Target to that list soon.
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JCP and Sears / Kmart have been failing for decades (anyDUmmie remember Montgomery Ward?). Online-only and stores like Walmart and Kohl's who have significant online presence have been displacing them. This was happening before the 21st Century began.
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Offline DLR Pyro

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This guy does alot of videos titled "The decline of insert company name" and give a good history of once strong companys that have out of business or soon to go out.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQMyhrt92_8XM0KgZH6VnRg
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mfcorey1 (8,656 posts)

So many stores are closing and reorganizing. Where is the booming economy?

...
Footlocker
Payless

I assume mfcorey1 referred to Payless Shoe Source. Both have lots of competitors: Kohl's has a significant shoe section; several major shoe brands have their own company stores and/or outlet stores; zappos.com. To name a few.
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Offline DLR Pyro

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I assume mfcorey1 referred to Payless Shoe Source. Both have lots of competitors: Kohl's has a significant shoe section; several major shoe brands have their own company stores and/or outlet stores; zappos.com. To name a few.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJ35lCrOYC0
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So there's a bad/sketchy manglement issue wrt Payless ShoeSource as well. Not surprising, I guess. I knew they had significant mall presence (I think Footlocker was even more mall-based), but I've seen a good number of their stand-alone stores as well.

While my family hasn't been logo-centric as such, the Payless house brand shoes were not great quality - cheap not just in price. We found that the name brand types fit and wore better, so that over their life they were less expensive and hurt less. So we passed on Payless and switched to low-mid-range name brand shoes. Cheap shoes are expensive when they don't last and/or cause medical problems.
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Veering back on-topic, these businesses' failures have to do with their business models/structure and manglement. Not the Trump economy.
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Offline Old n Grumpy

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The bboming economy is making real jobs, for people with skills not so many entry level jobs like retail.
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The bboming economy is making real jobs, for people with skills not so many entry level jobs like retail.

Government games with the minimum wage are pricing entry-level jobs toward near extinction. At the other end of the scale, as a result of current low employment, companies are having trouble finding people with the right skills for the higher-skilled jobs (and in the SF Bay Area, insane housing prices complicate recruiting).
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Before Amazon, there was Sears
https://www.retaildive.com/news/before-amazon-there-was-sears/330764/

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When you think about Sears' place on the American retail landscape, consider this: When R.W. Sears began his watch company in Minneapolis in 1886, the United States had just 38 stars on her flag.

Sears was a railroad station agent in Minnesota, but later moved his watch company to Chicago and hired watchmaker Alvah C. Roebuck to help with repairs. The two men expanded their offerings to other goods and started up a mail-order business that catered to farmers, who at the time were feeling gouged by their local general stores.

In short, Sears and Roebuck were disrupters, and America was ready for their mail-order, money-saving approach to retail.

Sears was the 19th and 20th Century Amazon. It was big and thriving in its day.
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I live in one of the most expensive areas in the nation. Our downtown area has had at least 30-50% vacancy rates due to leftist policies. We did ban plastic straws but that didn't save the businesses.

This business vacancies in our city has now spread to the shopping malls. We had a Vons, A VONS GROCERY STORE, go out of business and of course a Sears. that mall is dead. but at least those employees get a minimum wage of $15/hr... oh wait they get $0/hr now.

Yes california is is turning inot a fourth world country.
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Offline landofconfusion80

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I read an econ geek article about stores shutting a few months ago. The u.s. has an astronomical amount of floor space in comparison to other developed nations. This is unsustainable as there are only a finite number of customers for a given area.  What'll be interesting in the future as well is the number of restaurants in a given area. We have already seen cracks in many chains as they simply dont have the demand due to oversaturation.
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SF moves forward to track, eliminate empty storefronts

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SAN FRANCISCO (KTVU) - San Francisco city leaders took a step toward tracking and ultimately eliminating empty storefronts in a unanimous vote on Tuesday.

The board of supervisors approved the new plan, aimed at tracking vacant businesses and having the property owners pay a fee if they're left empty.

Currently the city doesn't officially count a business as vacant if it has a sign posted that the space is for rent, in some cases the storefronts are left empty for a decade or more.
...
Fewer authored the new legislation requiring property owners to notify the city if their building is vacant for 30 days or more and pay a $711 registration fee.

The plan is aimed at first getting a realistic view of how many storefronts are left vacant and to ultimately get them opened again.       

Fewer said too often those buildings are written down as a loss for the owner for tax purposes meaning the empty store fronts can attract vandals and the homeless.

OK, I'm not accountant, but how in Hades is it somehow profitable, even in the context of a much larger business, to leave a storefront empty - to receive zero revenue from it, leave it to be broken into and vandalized, and to decay from lack of maintenance? If there are skads of business owners looking for space, that makes less than zero sense!

Let me try a different explanation. San Francisco is such a hostile business environment, has such horrible traffic and street maintenance, has so many neighborhoods that are so depressing no one wants to go there for shopping and/or dining, and so many neighborhoods that are literally crappy (plus used needles) that there are no nascent small businesses willing to risk the investment of opening for business. Because the likelihood of profitability is too small.

Here in Silicon Valley, two malls have failed in the past 15 years, Sunnyvale Town Center and Vallco Fashion Mall (in Cupertino). STC had Montgomery Ward, Macy's, and J C Penney as anchors; VFM had Sears, Macy's, and J C Penney as anchors. MW went bankrupt in 2000; Sears Holdings (Sears and Kmart) went bankrupt in the past year; J C Penney is probably not far behind Sears on the path to bankruptcy; Macy's is struggling.

These were all high-flyers, several decades ago, and probably drove many Mom-and-Pop stores out of business (if those are the term you want to choose). Similarly, Safeway, Kroger, etc., drove A & P to the wall, who before that had driven many Mom-and-Pop stores out of business. Who in the 1940s (or so) foresaw A & P losing their place in retail? Who in 1970 foresaw MW being driven into liquidation bankruptcy? Who in 1990 foresaw Circuit City, Sears, Kmart, and JCP being driven into bankruptcy? Who in 2005 foresaw Borders Books being driven into bankruptcy? Who in 2010 foresaw Walmart, Kohls, Target, and Barnes & Noble being forced to significantly re-balance brick-and-mortar vs. online sales. Now, consider Amazon ... will they maintain the flexibility to endure, profitably ... or will some other unknown using yet unknown technology and business model drive Amazon to the wall?

But back on DU-topic, the woes of the stores DU-member mfcorey1 listed have all been years or decades in the making, and are in the context of the retail industry in which business models rise and are felled by newer, leaner, business models. Two years of Trump's Presidency cannot undo decades of mismanglement, nor restore bypassed/failed business models. DU-member mfcorey1 is just too TDS-blinded to see and acknowledge this.
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Offline DLR Pyro

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Let me try a different explanation. San Francisco is such a hostile business environment, has such horrible traffic and street maintenance, has so many neighborhoods that are so depressing no one wants to go there for shopping and/or dining, and so many neighborhoods that are literally crappy (plus used needles) that there are no nascent small businesses willing to risk the investment of opening for business. Because the likelihood of profitability is too small.



san francisco's lack of getting a handle on the homeless/drug/shitting on the streets as well as their sky high rents and hostile attitude towards business is driving businesses away and I can only hazard a guess that this is part of a plan for the city to confiscate "vacant" storefronts to use for needle exchange/shooting galleries or crashpads for the increasing number of the city's homeless population.

I lived in Sunnyvale from 1995 thru 1998.  We were on Hometead near Wolfe Rd and directly across the street from the old HP campus which is now the new Apple mothership.  We were a stone's throw from Vallco mall and I recall that even back then the mall seemed to be struggling to keep the store spaces occupied and customers in the mall.  Another youTube channel I watch is called Retail Archaeology https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCR2LNeZSqINp0WTd_eWCIGg/featuredand it focuses on dead and dying malls.  His videos fascinate me as he tours what he calls zombie malls or malls that are dead but don't know it.
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SF moves forward to track, eliminate empty storefronts

OK, I'm not accountant, but how in Hades is it somehow profitable, even in the context of a much larger business, to leave a storefront empty - to receive zero revenue from it, leave it to be broken into and vandalized, and to decay from lack of maintenance? If there are skads of business owners looking for space, that makes less than zero sense!

Let me try a different explanation. San Francisco is such a hostile business environment, has such horrible traffic and street maintenance, has so many neighborhoods that are so depressing no one wants to go there for shopping and/or dining, and so many neighborhoods that are literally crappy (plus used needles) that there are no nascent small businesses willing to risk the investment of opening for business. Because the likelihood of profitability is too small.

Here in Silicon Valley, two malls have failed in the past 15 years, Sunnyvale Town Center and Vallco Fashion Mall (in Cupertino). STC had Montgomery Ward, Macy's, and J C Penney as anchors; VFM had Sears, Macy's, and J C Penney as anchors. MW went bankrupt in 2000; Sears Holdings (Sears and Kmart) went bankrupt in the past year; J C Penney is probably not far behind Sears on the path to bankruptcy; Macy's is struggling.

These were all high-flyers, several decades ago, and probably drove many Mom-and-Pop stores out of business (if those are the term you want to choose). Similarly, Safeway, Kroger, etc., drove A & P to the wall, who before that had driven many Mom-and-Pop stores out of business. Who in the 1940s (or so) foresaw A & P losing their place in retail? Who in 1970 foresaw MW being driven into liquidation bankruptcy? Who in 1990 foresaw Circuit City, Sears, Kmart, and JCP being driven into bankruptcy? Who in 2005 foresaw Borders Books being driven into bankruptcy? Who in 2010 foresaw Walmart, Kohls, Target, and Barnes & Noble being forced to significantly re-balance brick-and-mortar vs. online sales. Now, consider Amazon ... will they maintain the flexibility to endure, profitably ... or will some other unknown using yet unknown technology and business model drive Amazon to the wall?

But back on DU-topic, the woes of the stores DU-member mfcorey1 listed have all been years or decades in the making, and are in the context of the retail industry in which business models rise and are felled by newer, leaner, business models. Two years of Trump's Presidency cannot undo decades of mismanglement, nor restore bypassed/failed business models. DU-member mfcorey1 is just too TDS-blinded to see and acknowledge this.

Before Wal-Mart, there was A&P. It grew quickly and at one point they had 16,000 stores. Wal-Mart had nearly 12,000 stores at its peak and shrinking. A&P was much larger in their heydays.

The Great Atlantic & Pacific Tea Company
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Atlantic_%26_Pacific_Tea_Company

Total number of Walmart stores worldwide from 2008 to 2018
https://www.statista.com/statistics/256172/total-number-of-walmart-stores-worldwide/

Before There Was Walmart, There Was A&P
https://www.foxbusiness.com/features/before-there-was-walmart-there-was-ap

Amazon only makes a profit because of cloud computing.

AWS revenue grows 45% to $7.4B in fourth quarter; full-year revenue hits $25B
https://www.geekwire.com/2019/aws-revenue-grew-45-percent-7-4-billion-fourth-quarter-full-year-revenue-hits-25-billion/

Those companies that went out of business simply could not keep up. Some became too complacent like Kodak.

Barriers to Change: The Real Reason Behind the Kodak Downfall
https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnkotter/2012/05/02/barriers-to-change-the-real-reason-behind-the-kodak-downfall/#40058c7669ef

san francisco's lack of getting a handle on the homeless/drug/shitting on the streets as well as their sky high rents and hostile attitude towards business is driving businesses away and I can only hazard a guess that this is part of a plan for the city to confiscate "vacant" storefronts to use for needle exchange/shooting galleries or crashpads for the increasing number of the city's homeless population.

I lived in Sunnyvale from 1995 thru 1998.  We were on Hometead near Wolfe Rd and directly across the street from the old HP campus which is now the new Apple mothership.  We were a stone's throw from Vallco mall and I recall that even back then the mall seemed to be struggling to keep the store spaces occupied and customers in the mall.  Another youTube channel I watch is called Retail Archaeology https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCR2LNeZSqINp0WTd_eWCIGg/featuredand it focuses on dead and dying malls.  His videos fascinate me as he tours what he calls zombie malls or malls that are dead but don't know it.

Malls are a product of the 1960s to 1980s. Looking at dead malls is interesting and depressing.

Dead Malls
http://www.deadmalls.com
« Last Edit: March 09, 2019, 09:50:15 AM by Ptarmigan »
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Offline FlaGator

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Etail is booming. I work for a large online company and we are setting records in sales and growth. 5 years ago we had a presence on in the US. Now we have offices in Canada, England, Europe, India, South Korea, Hong Kong and China. The company started out as one brick and mortar store in one mall in Florida back in the 90s.

Most stores that are staying successful have active and growing online divisions. Walmart has decided not to roll over to Amazon and is quickly becoming one of its biggest competitors. Don't change with the times and you die. Adapt to where the future is going and grow.
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...
I lived in Sunnyvale from 1995 thru 1998.  We were on Hometead near Wolfe Rd and directly across the street from the old HP campus which is now the new Apple mothership.  We were a stone's throw from Vallco mall and I recall that even back then the mall seemed to be struggling to keep the store spaces occupied and customers in the mall.  Another youTube channel I watch is called Retail Archaeology https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCR2LNeZSqINp0WTd_eWCIGg/featuredand it focuses on dead and dying malls.  His videos fascinate me as he tours what he calls zombie malls or malls that are dead but don't know it.

Another part of the Vallco story is that in the 1990s they dug a deeper level beneath what had been there for 25 years, and that level never got close to fully populated. The demographics of the area changed over time, and Vallco was unable to follow that. They tried to revamp it with a bowling alley, ice skating rink, and multiplex theater, but to no avail.

We used to live near Wolfe & Fremont and later worked for a computer company in the area (not Apple), so I know the neighborhood some.
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