Author Topic: Eliminating waste in government  (Read 2110 times)

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Offline TheShoe

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Eliminating waste in government
« on: October 08, 2018, 06:56:21 PM »
For decades corporations have eliminated waste via the quality science process. They empower a team of employees led by an executive to seak out waste wherever it and eliminate it. They reduce the cost of poor quality, eliminate process waste and improve customer satisfaction. The quality process is not limited to the factory floor these days.

We all know that every level of government is ripe with waste.

My thought is to pass a law at the federal lever that each function hires and empowered a chief quality director with the mandate to reduce the cost of poor quality by 5% each year while improving customer satisfaction.  Establish a cabinet position who oversees the entire process and who reports directly to POTUS.

Thoughts please

Offline docstew

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Re: Eliminating waste in government
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2018, 08:28:10 PM »
The President could just require every cabinet secretary to justify their department based on the Constitution, and they can't use "general welfare"...

Offline TheShoe

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Re: Eliminating waste in government
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2018, 08:43:58 PM »
Nah, we need to set goals and use data and quality science to reach them. Enough of talking about the issue.

Offline FunkyZero

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Re: Eliminating waste in government
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2018, 09:08:21 PM »
For decades corporations have eliminated waste via the quality science process. They empower a team of employees led by an executive to seak out waste wherever it and eliminate it. They reduce the cost of poor quality, eliminate process waste and improve customer satisfaction. The quality process is not limited to the factory floor these days.

We all know that every level of government is ripe with waste.

My thought is to pass a law at the federal lever that each function hires and empowered a chief quality director with the mandate to reduce the cost of poor quality by 5% each year while improving customer satisfaction.  Establish a cabinet position who oversees the entire process and who reports directly to POTUS.

Thoughts please

hire bore bureaucrats to figure out why bureaucrats are spending too much money?
heres what you do: award the chief of each department with 1-2% of the total amount of budget he cuts.
problem will be solved overnight

Offline TheShoe

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Re: Eliminating waste in government
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2018, 09:30:04 PM »
That is too blunt. Agree with the bonus plan for sure, but need a more sophicated metric. Can’t award the bonus for cost cuts that sacrifice customer satisfaction. 

Offline 5412

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Re: Eliminating waste in government
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2018, 09:52:00 PM »
Hi,

Last summer I wrote a column, Rubbers, Runways, Robbers & Rewards. 

https://milleronthemoney.com/rubbers-runways-robbers-rewards/

I took a look at the federal budget.  The deficit was just over $580 billion.  I then discovered that congressional grants, also know as wasting tax dollars to buy votes, was just over $580 billion.  In round numbers, each member of congress averaged spending $1 billion on absolutely ridiculous things to buy votes and maintain the power. 

Literally, one of the Kennedy clan got a government grant for someone in his district to study ways to make rubbers more fun.

If you want to balance the budget, start with eliminating government grants.  When congress says there is nowhere else to cut, it is pure BS.  When I finished my research I was convinced we need term limits and a Constitutional Amendment requiring a balanced budget with enough penalties in it that Congress won't ignore it.

Regards,
5412


Offline ExGeeEye

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Re: Eliminating waste in government
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2018, 02:41:25 AM »
That is too blunt. Agree with the bonus plan for sure, but need a more sophicated metric. Can’t award the bonus for cost cuts that sacrifice customer satisfaction.

You assume that we are the customers of government.

This is the core flaw in your argument.

Customers get to pick and choose what products or services to buy.

Government produces a metric ton of Absolutely Jack, and charges us for it whether we want it or not.  Government monopolizes certain services, taxes us to make them possible, requires us to use them, and if any are optional, charges us again to "enjoy" them.

Cut waste by gutting government.   It's the only way.
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Offline Eupher

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Re: Eliminating waste in government
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2018, 06:19:54 AM »
That is too blunt. Agree with the bonus plan for sure, but need a more sophicated metric. Can’t award the bonus for cost cuts that sacrifice customer satisfaction.

More bureaucracy.

How do you measure "customer satisfaction?"

How many metrics and yardsticks does it take to reach your stated idea?

The problem with your "thought" is the overreaching government begins to measure everything but itself and measuring stuff then becomes the principal force.

I've been in the government and private industry both for some 45 years. I've seen metrics, and I've seen how useless they can be when metrics are used simply for the purpose of using metrics.
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Offline Texacon

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Re: Eliminating waste in government
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2018, 06:45:13 AM »
One of the best reasons for the Fair Tax.  Once enacted the government cannot raise your taxes without asking you if they can.

Personally, to cut government waste, I would set up a team to route out fraud in welfare, food stamps, social security disability, etc...  This team would have no payroll.  They would take a percentage of savings to divide amongst themselves.

This wouldn't be just for individuals who are committing fraud.  It would also be for the corporations that are taking farm subsidies, large contractors, etc. 

As mentioned above, if any department heads see areas where they can cut, you give the department a percentage of the savings and reduce that budget for the next year while increasing the amount of the percentage that could be obtained.  Once you find out what the REAL budget should be, then you can start working on incentive pay plans and actual pay increases.

KC
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Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: Eliminating waste in government
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2018, 07:05:27 AM »
I've been in countless rounds of the Army trying to implement such programs, every time it turns into a wasteful, stressful clusterf*ck that detracts from the core mission.  Quality circles, Total Quality Management, JIT delivery, ISO 9001, Black Belts, 'Ownership,' Baldridge Award packets.  Jesus, it never f*cking stopped.

And none of it actually accomplished a damn' thing.  The reasons should have been obvious, but the desire to follow civilian management fads and count coup for an annual rating drove it again and again.

Not going to go into great detail for a dawn post on a forum that maybe 20 people will ever see, but for starters, Deming himself was never solid on how his ideas even applied to a service industry as opposed to manufacturing and distribution of goods, and the government is basically a giant service organization. 

Critical to the whole conundrum is that there is not a direct 'Customer' in the process.  The funding and policy direction comes out of two political entities (Congress and the Executive) with the third (Courts) unpredictably intervening at the behestbof various third parties.  The revenue stream to operate comes from the political process, not from the person receiving services (Of course some of those recipients, like criminals or enemy combatants, don't want them anyway, or can't fund even themselves which is why they're consuming government services in the first place).     

It does handle a lot of goods, of course, many of which are unique, and therefore expensive and made in limited production runs, but which also have catastrophic consequences if not immediately available when required, so most industrial inventory modeling fails big-time.

The compensation structure, both military and civilian, is a combination of the worst features of both wage and salary systems. 

On top of that, there is a fundamental conflict between wanting people to be fungible but also invested (Which afflicts private sector employers as well, so the private sector has pretty much given up on 'Invested' outside of their inner-circle executives). 

Then just to put the cherry on top, the entire structure is subject to radical shifts in priorities driven by political power shifts at least every two years, including social and social engineering issues which have no actual relation to core functions.     
« Last Edit: October 09, 2018, 09:43:23 AM by DumbAss Tanker »
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Offline Happy Fun Ball

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Re: Eliminating waste in government
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2018, 08:21:50 AM »

Offline tikibarted

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Re: Eliminating waste in government
« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2018, 12:03:43 PM »
I've been in countless rounds of the Army trying to implement such programs, every time it turns into a wasteful, stressful clusterf*ck that detracts from the core mission.  Quality circles, Total Quality Management, JIT delivery, ISO 9001, Black Belts, 'Ownership,' Baldridge Award packets.  Jesus, it never f*cking stopped.

And none of it actually accomplished a damn' thing.  The reasons should have been obvious, but the desire to follow civilian management fads and count coup for an annual rating drove it again and again.

Not going to go into great detail for a dawn post on a forum that maybe 20 people will ever see, but for starters, Deming himself was never solid on how his ideas even applied to a service industry as opposed to manufacturing and distribution of goods, and the government is basically a giant service organization. 

Critical to the whole conundrum is that there is not a direct 'Customer' in the process.  The funding and policy direction comes out of two political entities (Congress and the Executive) with the third (Courts) unpredictably intervening at the behestbof various third parties.  The revenue stream to operate comes from the political process, not from the person receiving services (Of course some of those recipients, like criminals or enemy combatants, don't want them anyway, or can't fund even themselves which is why they're consuming government services in the first place).     

It does handle a lot of goods, of course, many of which are unique, and therefore expensive and made in limited production runs, but which also have catastrophic consequences if not immediately available when required, so most industrial inventory modeling fails big-time.

The compensation structure, both military and civilian, is a combination of the worst features of both wage and salary systems. 

On top of that, there is a fundamental conflict between wanting people to be fungible but also invested (Which afflicts private sector employers as well, so the private sector has pretty much given up on 'Invested' outside of their inner-circle executives). 

Then just to put the cherry on top, the entire structure is subject to radical shifts in priorities driven by political power shifts at least every two years, including social and social engineering issues which have no actual relation to core functions.     

couldn't have said it better...

Just start eliminating cabinet level departments that aren't specifically  called for in the constitution...

I'm looking at you Education and Housing and Urban Development...

Offline Eupher

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Re: Eliminating waste in government
« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2018, 02:03:13 PM »
One of the best reasons for the Fair Tax.  Once enacted the government cannot raise your taxes without asking you if they can.

Personally, to cut government waste, I would set up a team to route out fraud in welfare, food stamps, social security disability, etc...  This team would have no payroll.  They would take a percentage of savings to divide amongst themselves.

This wouldn't be just for individuals who are committing fraud.  It would also be for the corporations that are taking farm subsidies, large contractors, etc. 

As mentioned above, if any department heads see areas where they can cut, you give the department a percentage of the savings and reduce that budget for the next year while increasing the amount of the percentage that could be obtained.  Once you find out what the REAL budget should be, then you can start working on incentive pay plans and actual pay increases.

KC

Bravo. That ****ing ethanol subsidy irritates the shit out of me, especially when using it ****s up my small engines to the extent it does. Even my motorcycle.

 :argh:
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Offline Eupher

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Re: Eliminating waste in government
« Reply #13 on: October 09, 2018, 02:09:21 PM »
I've been in countless rounds of the Army trying to implement such programs, every time it turns into a wasteful, stressful clusterf*ck that detracts from the core mission.  Quality circles, Total Quality Management, JIT delivery, ISO 9001, Black Belts, 'Ownership,' Baldridge Award packets.  Jesus, it never f*cking stopped.

And none of it actually accomplished a damn' thing.  The reasons should have been obvious, but the desire to follow civilian management fads and count coup for an annual rating drove it again and again.

Not going to go into great detail for a dawn post on a forum that maybe 20 people will ever see, but for starters, Deming himself was never solid on how his ideas even applied to a service industry as opposed to manufacturing and distribution of goods, and the government is basically a giant service organization. 

Critical to the whole conundrum is that there is not a direct 'Customer' in the process.  The funding and policy direction comes out of two political entities (Congress and the Executive) with the third (Courts) unpredictably intervening at the behestbof various third parties.  The revenue stream to operate comes from the political process, not from the person receiving services (Of course some of those recipients, like criminals or enemy combatants, don't want them anyway, or can't fund even themselves which is why they're consuming government services in the first place).     

It does handle a lot of goods, of course, many of which are unique, and therefore expensive and made in limited production runs, but which also have catastrophic consequences if not immediately available when required, so most industrial inventory modeling fails big-time.

The compensation structure, both military and civilian, is a combination of the worst features of both wage and salary systems. 

On top of that, there is a fundamental conflict between wanting people to be fungible but also invested (Which afflicts private sector employers as well, so the private sector has pretty much given up on 'Invested' outside of their inner-circle executives). 

Then just to put the cherry on top, the entire structure is subject to radical shifts in priorities driven by political power shifts at least every two years, including social and social engineering issues which have no actual relation to core functions.     

I'll gladly be one of the 20. Outf'nstanding.

I'm a certified manager of quality "Organizational Excellence" to put the bullshit cherry on top, and apart from having taken the exam 8 years ago and finding out just how much Deming & Co. have wormed their way into manufacturing (not altogether a bad deal, frankly, but bungee-jumping off your point here vis a vis the f'n gubmint not being able to grab its ass with either hand), it never ceases to amaze me how much the quality pukes (and I'm one of them) can sugar-coat an idea, package it differently, and sell it to the next dumb bastard who doesn't have a ****ing clue about what Deming said to begin with.

It's all about money.
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Offline Eupher

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Re: Eliminating waste in government
« Reply #14 on: October 09, 2018, 02:11:04 PM »
couldn't have said it better...

Just start eliminating cabinet level departments that aren't specifically  called for in the constitution...

I'm looking at you Education and Housing and Urban Development...

Not to mention the "Department of Energy" whatever the hell that does.

Hi 5
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Offline FunkyZero

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Re: Eliminating waste in government
« Reply #15 on: October 09, 2018, 02:14:51 PM »
Not to mention the "Department of Energy" whatever the hell that does.

Hi 5

Man, hit the biggest a-holes first...
The EPA and ATF... they only exist for purposes of circumventing congress anyway

Offline Will Morningstar

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Re: Eliminating waste in government
« Reply #16 on: October 09, 2018, 03:19:57 PM »
Not to mention the "Department of Energy" whatever the hell that does.

Hi 5

As well as regulating hydroelectric and coalfired power generation, the U.S. Department of Energy oversees both civilian and military uses of atomic energy. Powerstations, nuclear propulsion systems, and nuclear weapons, as well as the disposition and safety of nuclear waste. Sounds like useful work, at least to me.

Offline Eupher

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Re: Eliminating waste in government
« Reply #17 on: October 09, 2018, 05:05:25 PM »
As well as regulating hydroelectric and coalfired power generation, the U.S. Department of Energy oversees both civilian and military uses of atomic energy. Powerstations, nuclear propulsion systems, and nuclear weapons, as well as the disposition and safety of nuclear waste. Sounds like useful work, at least to me.

Uh huh. Then there's that nasty little thing called the 10th Amendment. Check into it. You might learn something.

The principal argument that leftist socialists have is, "well, we didn't HAVE that thing back in 1787!" Which is true.

Now tell me why it's critical and important for the federal government to steal from the states that which is theirs.
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Offline Eupher

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Re: Eliminating waste in government
« Reply #18 on: October 09, 2018, 05:21:43 PM »
Man, hit the biggest a-holes first...
The EPA and ATF... they only exist for purposes of circumventing congress anyway

ATF falls under DOJ. Why start with small potatoes?  :hammer:

To shitcan EPA -- created by Tricky Dick. OK, I'll go there with you.  :cheersmate:
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Offline 5412

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Re: Eliminating waste in government
« Reply #19 on: October 09, 2018, 05:59:23 PM »
I've been in countless rounds of the Army trying to implement such programs, every time it turns into a wasteful, stressful clusterf*ck that detracts from the core mission.  Quality circles, Total Quality Management, JIT delivery, ISO 9001, Black Belts, 'Ownership,' Baldridge Award packets.  Jesus, it never f*cking stopped.

And none of it actually accomplished a damn' thing.  The reasons should have been obvious, but the desire to follow civilian management fads and count coup for an annual rating drove it again and again.

Not going to go into great detail for a dawn post on a forum that maybe 20 people will ever see, but for starters, Deming himself was never solid on how his ideas even applied to a service industry as opposed to manufacturing and distribution of goods, and the government is basically a giant service organization. 

Critical to the whole conundrum is that there is not a direct 'Customer' in the process.  The funding and policy direction comes out of two political entities (Congress and the Executive) with the third (Courts) unpredictably intervening at the behestbof various third parties.  The revenue stream to operate comes from the political process, not from the person receiving services (Of course some of those recipients, like criminals or enemy combatants, don't want them anyway, or can't fund even themselves which is why they're consuming government services in the first place).     

It does handle a lot of goods, of course, many of which are unique, and therefore expensive and made in limited production runs, but which also have catastrophic consequences if not immediately available when required, so most industrial inventory modeling fails big-time.

The compensation structure, both military and civilian, is a combination of the worst features of both wage and salary systems. 

On top of that, there is a fundamental conflict between wanting people to be fungible but also invested (Which afflicts private sector employers as well, so the private sector has pretty much given up on 'Invested' outside of their inner-circle executives). 

Then just to put the cherry on top, the entire structure is subject to radical shifts in priorities driven by political power shifts at least every two years, including social and social engineering issues which have no actual relation to core functions.     

Hi Tank,

As a young man, a high school classmate of mine took me to an army warehouse that was totally full of band instruments.  Why?  Their budgeting was such that they had to spend all the money or it would be cut the following year.  So they continued to buy instruments whether they needed them or not. 

I've heard of similar stories in the navy, even to the point of buying bass boats for recreational purposes.  Start with zero based budgeting..  Or, stop the automatic inflation adjusted increases and just freeze the budget for 2-3 years so they stop with the crap.

Regards,
5412

Offline Will Morningstar

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Re: Eliminating waste in government
« Reply #20 on: October 09, 2018, 07:52:41 PM »
Uh huh. Then there's that nasty little thing called the 10th Amendment. Check into it. You might learn something.

The principal argument that leftist socialists have is, "well, we didn't HAVE that thing back in 1787!" Which is true.

Now tell me why it's critical and important for the federal government to steal from the states that which is theirs.

Okay, Eupher. And thanks for your many years of service, which makes you far more expert in your system than I. But some of our central issues are the same.

The United States is a hybrid reprsentative democratic republic. Canada is a confederacy. Canada never had a formal Constitution until 1981. We were first established as the Dominion of Canada, and established our initial Articles of Confederation on July 1st, 1867, under authority granted by the passage of the British North America Act in the British Parliament.

Now here's where we're the same: When we patriated our Constitution and became formally independent (we were always de facto independent, as the Crown exists simply as a constitutional guarantor and formal Head of State), there were years of discussions about which functions were properly federal, and which properly areas of provincial responibility. Our provinces (states) have many rights, and guard these rights jealously. Essentially, Canada is a weak federation. Many concessions had to be made to various provinces, and factions of provinces, to reach agreement between all in 1981. Our provinces, in fact, have many more powers than your states, and your federal government has much more power than ours. This continues to make it difficult to enact any national programs, as one province or another will assert its rights, or block an initiative. In many cases, the province will assert its rights to establish an equivalent program under its own control, and the federal govt will hand over the funding to the province to administer as they see fit. That's also why our provincial legislators have full-time jobs, and work year 'round, not part-time like many of your state legislators, as ours have much more responsibility and larger budgets than yours.

At the end of the day, our shared question of federal vs states' rights remains the same. We solved it by giving much more power to the states. To the point where smetimes we wish our feds were more powerful, not less. Hope these thoughts are helpful, Eupher.

Offline Eupher

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Re: Eliminating waste in government
« Reply #21 on: October 10, 2018, 02:09:18 AM »
Okay, Eupher. And thanks for your many years of service, which makes you far more expert in your system than I. But some of our central issues are the same.

The United States is a hybrid reprsentative democratic republic. Canada is a confederacy. Canada never had a formal Constitution until 1981. We were first established as the Dominion of Canada, and established our initial Articles of Confederation on July 1st, 1867, under authority granted by the passage of the British North America Act in the British Parliament.

Now here's where we're the same: When we patriated our Constitution and became formally independent (we were always de facto independent, as the Crown exists simply as a constitutional guarantor and formal Head of State), there were years of discussions about which functions were properly federal, and which properly areas of provincial responibility. Our provinces (states) have many rights, and guard these rights jealously. Essentially, Canada is a weak federation. Many concessions had to be made to various provinces, and factions of provinces, to reach agreement between all in 1981. Our provinces, in fact, have many more powers than your states, and your federal government has much more power than ours. This continues to make it difficult to enact any national programs, as one province or another will assert its rights, or block an initiative. In many cases, the province will assert its rights to establish an equivalent program under its own control, and the federal govt will hand over the funding to the province to administer as they see fit. That's also why our provincial legislators have full-time jobs, and work year 'round, not part-time like many of your state legislators, as ours have much more responsibility and larger budgets than yours.

At the end of the day, our shared question of federal vs states' rights remains the same. We solved it by giving much more power to the states. To the point where smetimes we wish our feds were more powerful, not less. Hope these thoughts are helpful, Eupher.

Yes, in fact they are. I appreciate your explaining the Canadian system -- despite the fact I grew up less than 8 miles from your country, I have visited Canada sparingly.

When you mention the year 1981, I'm assuming you're talking about the Quebec issue. Those folks tend to be hard-headed, I think, and the stubborn adherence to their brand of French is witness to it.

May your provinces remain strong. Our states have grown progressively weaker, initiated many decades ago when the 17th Amendment was passed -- the fools that they were. But that was the start of the so-called "Progressive" era when things started falling in the toilet.
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Offline txradioguy

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Re: Eliminating waste in government
« Reply #22 on: October 10, 2018, 11:55:04 AM »
I've been in countless rounds of the Army trying to implement such programs, every time it turns into a wasteful, stressful clusterf*ck that detracts from the core mission.  Quality circles, Total Quality Management, JIT delivery, ISO 9001, Black Belts, 'Ownership,' Baldridge Award packets.  Jesus, it never f*cking stopped.

And none of it actually accomplished a damn' thing.  The reasons should have been obvious, but the desire to follow civilian management fads and count coup for an annual rating drove it again and again.

Not going to go into great detail for a dawn post on a forum that maybe 20 people will ever see, but for starters, Deming himself was never solid on how his ideas even applied to a service industry as opposed to manufacturing and distribution of goods, and the government is basically a giant service organization. 

Critical to the whole conundrum is that there is not a direct 'Customer' in the process.  The funding and policy direction comes out of two political entities (Congress and the Executive) with the third (Courts) unpredictably intervening at the behestbof various third parties.  The revenue stream to operate comes from the political process, not from the person receiving services (Of course some of those recipients, like criminals or enemy combatants, don't want them anyway, or can't fund even themselves which is why they're consuming government services in the first place).     

It does handle a lot of goods, of course, many of which are unique, and therefore expensive and made in limited production runs, but which also have catastrophic consequences if not immediately available when required, so most industrial inventory modeling fails big-time.

The compensation structure, both military and civilian, is a combination of the worst features of both wage and salary systems. 

On top of that, there is a fundamental conflict between wanting people to be fungible but also invested (Which afflicts private sector employers as well, so the private sector has pretty much given up on 'Invested' outside of their inner-circle executives). 

Then just to put the cherry on top, the entire structure is subject to radical shifts in priorities driven by political power shifts at least every two years, including social and social engineering issues which have no actual relation to core functions.     

QFT
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Offline txradioguy

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Re: Eliminating waste in government
« Reply #23 on: October 10, 2018, 11:59:02 AM »
There are so man things that could be done...but you have to have the politicians in DC willing to make the hard choices to enact policies that make real change.

Things like the elimination of the Omnibus budget bills where we don't know what's in them.  Stop baseline budgeting every year.

Eliminate the redundancy in the different agencies in DC and eliminate the EPA and the Dept of Ed entirely.  Those were Nixonian creations IIRC that were an effort at appeasement with the Dems.

Those are some easy off the top of my head solutions...but the blowback you'd receive in DC would be bipartisan and tremendous.
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Offline Carl

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Re: Eliminating waste in government
« Reply #24 on: October 10, 2018, 12:27:32 PM »
Budgeting needs to be done on a needs basis.
Right down to the local school district there is a use it or lose it mentality so no incentive to actually spend wisely.
The incentive is to spend every last cent whether it is justified or not.

Next would be to completely overhaul redundancy where multiple agencies are tripping over each other doing similar things.

After that would be to have every department head review all projects with timelines to achieve goals and benchmarks along the way.

Right now nothing is structured for efficiency but as I said in your other thread it is set up to encourage government agencies    to exist to feed itself.