**** free speech.

[dutch508]

cynatnite (28,860 posts) https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029488375

Hate groups: I will not defend your right to free speech

That is all.

The USSC disagrees with you.

Star Member MineralMan (97,475 posts)
1. We will overwhelm their weak, cowardly voices with voices so loud they cannot be heard at all.

Shout them down. They have no rights.

Star Member Wounded Bear (17,466 posts)
2. Sorry, can't agree...

If all they're doing is speaking, they have that right.

People also have the right to not listen and peacefully counter-protest.

Yes- in Boston the Free Speech 'protesters" did just that- then the left attacked them and the police.

cynatnite (28,860 posts)
3. I used to feel the same...

But seeing their level of hate and promotion of violence through free speech, in good conscience I can't defend that right any longer.

Which group is tearing down shit and setting shit on fire again?

Star Member edhopper (18,801 posts)
5. I will defend their right to free speech

but free speech is a matter of interpretation and doesn't include armed rallies.

 

Star Member johnp3907 (2,005 posts)
6. "Don't give them their freedom because they're not going to give you yours."

"**** Nazi Sympathy"

Don't respect something that has no respect
don't sympathize with something that has no sympathy
don't understand something that has no understanding
Don't give them their freedom, because they're not going to give you yours
**** nazi sympathy
Don't give them their freedom, because they're not going to give you yours

taught_me_patience (5,398 posts)
8. I support the first amendment

Which means they have a right to free speech. I don't have to listen.

cynatnite (28,860 posts)
9. Not listening hasn't gotten us far...

I used to feel the same about these groups, but I can't support their right any longer.

Star Member Egnever (19,957 posts)
16. Nor do you have to stand idly by and let them spew

The first amendment only protects speech from government repercussions it does not protect anything further than that. Free speech does not equal without consequence. Only without consequence from the government.

I am all for that. Bring up any crazy ****ing idea you want but that does not mean You can not be challenged.

Yes, kids. If someone says something you don't right you can silence them according the DU.

Star Member Mr. Ected (3,504 posts)
10. Free Speech can still be limited, when public policy demands it

You can't scream "Fire!" in a crowded theater. You can't publish obscenities or kiddie porn.

The right is not absolute.

Star Member Calista241 (2,355 posts)
14. You're getting worked up by an infinitesimally small population of crazy people.

The only reason it's a thing now is because the media is pushing it so they can drive ratings.

They've had threse stupid rallies for the past 20 years, and nobody that mattered gave a shit about it.

til now when the left can hammer the president and the right about it.

cynatnite (28,860 posts)
15. We didn't have a ****ing Nazi in the WH either. n/t

 

sarisataka (8,318 posts)
17. I'm sorry but saying

to any group "I will not defend your right to free speech" is equivalent to saying "I will not defend your right to a fair trail".

It is binary, the right either applies to all or is does not exist.

cynatnite (28,860 posts)
18. Is Germany unable to conduct fair trials because of their limits on free speech? n/t

OBenario4 (94 posts)
21. Good on you.

Freedom of speech is not an absolute right. People using freedom of speech to try to take away liberties and rights of other groups shouldn't be allowed.

In fact, I don't understand why is it not forbidden to go around showing Nazi flags in the US. In almost every country these people would be arrested for that.

Star Member MrScorpio (67,539 posts)
22. Defending hate speech is like defending someone's right to scream "fire" in a crowded theater

...When there's no fire at all.

When defending the free speech of white supremacists, one is defending their expressed intention to dehumanize other people. The purpose of dehumanization is to marginalize, oppress and even murder others simply because they're part of the non-white and/or non-Christian minority.

White supremacists are intent on convincing the white majority that it's in their best interests to do that very thing. They're appealing to fear and hatred of the other. It really doesn't take all that much to create biases and for mobs especially to act on those biases. That's what these people stand for, it would be naive to think otherwise.

So-called free speech has limits. That's a established legal precedent, encoded in our courts of law. Inciting to riot is not protected speech, and thus

inciting to oppress and murder black people and Jews should not be protected either.

If we're supposed to be a decent, egalitarian society, we should set a standard in which the expressed intention to dehumanize, oppress and murder people because of their identity is completely unacceptable.

Otherwise, it's only a matter of time before that very thing happens here again and again.

ooo.... there is a bunch of muslims who would disagree with you on that.

Star Member NutmegYankee (12,586 posts)
24. Understand your argument, but want to point out that shouting fire isn't illegal.

The falsely shouting fire in a crowded theater came out of the 1919 Schenck v. United States SCOTUS decision that set a standard of "clear and present danger". This was replaced in 1969 in Brandenburg v. Ohio, which limited the scope of banned speech to that which would be directed to and likely to incite imminent lawless action (e.g. a riot).

 

[SVPete]

Nice bonfire. I have to admit being surprised that it wasn't a chorus of         .

[franksolich]

Nice bonfire. I have to admit being surprised that it wasn't a chorus of         .

What's funny is watching Lamond, the MrsCorpio primitive, commenting as if he knows something about all this.

[Ralph Wiggum]

Let all the goons protest all they desire.  Having been to one in January, perhaps the largest, it was more comical just to silently laugh.  That's what we did on January 21st.

[Movie buff- The Sequel]

What most of the DUmmies apparently don't get is that the price of living in a free society is that those freedoms you enjoy also extend to those whose views you may disagree with or find flat- out repulsive.
For instance, Black Lives Matter's activists have often spewed blatant hate speech against whites, the DUmmies regularly spew hate speech against conservatives, Christians, Republicans, white people, pro- lifers, etc.. I find their views horrible, but as long as it's not directly inciting violence or crime, it is protected by their First Amendment rights. I wish the DUmmies could apply that same "Live and Let Live" scenario to those who disagree with them (A guy can dream, can't he?).

"The only reason it's a thing now is because the media is pushing it so they can drive ratings."
DINGDINGDINGDINGDING! WE HAVE A WINNAH!
Whenever possible, the media inflames and exaggerates controversies and headlines in order to boost ratings. This is why, for instance, they referred to the activists on the conservative side of the Charlottesville incident as "White Nationalists," even though I'm sure only a very slim minority of them were actually white nationalists/ white supremacists. Using the term "White Nationalists" sells a lot more papers and gets a lot more people to tune in to news reports of the incident than using the term "Conservative activists."

[Old n Grumpy]

All speech should be banned when it comes from liberals / progressives. It is all hot air causing global warming. Polar bear cubs are crying.

[Karin]

What most of the DUmmies apparently don't get is that the price of living in a free society is that those freedoms you enjoy also extend to those whose views you may disagree with or find flat- out repulsive.

  Yes.  And it's quite simple, just don't listen.  If you're hearing something repulsive, shut it off.  If you're reading/seeing something repulsive, turn away from it.  Put on ignore. 

[SVPete]

Stoooooooopid question time.

Is there ANY Bill of Rights freedom or right that DU-grade Progs would not readily abridge for the sake of some political expediency?

[Ptarmigan]

cynatnite (28,860 posts) https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029488375

Hate groups: I will not defend your right to free speech

That is all.

You mean these groups?
ISIS
Al Qaeda
Boko Haram
Al-Shabaab
Black Panthers
Antifa
Communist Party
Neo-Nazis
KKK
PETA
ALF
ELF

[SVPete]

You mean these groups?
ISIS
Al Qaeda
Boko Haram
Al-Shabaab
Black Panthers
Antifa
Communist Party
Neo-Nazis
KKK
PETA
ALF
ELF

SPLC

[dutch508]

Stoooooooopid question time.

Is there ANY Bill of Rights freedom or right that DU-grade Progs would not readily abridge for the sake of some political expediency?

Nope.

[Ptarmigan]

SPLC

 

[FunkyZero]

OBenario4 (94 posts)
21. Good on you.

Freedom of speech is not an absolute right. People using freedom of speech to try to take away liberties and rights of other groups shouldn't be allowed.

In fact, I don't understand why is it not forbidden to go around showing Nazi flags in the US. In almost every country these people would be arrested for that.

alright you wise asses... who's is it?

[FunkyZero]

White supremacists are intent on convincing the white majority that it's in their best interests to do that very thing. They're appealing to fear and hatred of the other. It really doesn't take all that much to create biases and for mobs especially to act on those biases.

my God... oh the irony.
Are they REALLY that F@$#@ dense?
How could ANYONE write that, then read it back and not have an epiphany?
eg

[BlueStateSaint]

alright you wise asses... who's is it?

Do you know what the acronym OPSEC means?

[Movie buff- The Sequel]

You mean these groups?
ISIS
Al Qaeda
Boko Haram
Al-Shabaab
Black Panthers
Antifa
Communist Party
Neo-Nazis
KKK
PETA
ALF
ELF

Don't forget Earth First.
Their writings have openly encouraged violence and acts of terrorism too many times to count. They were what inspired the Unabomber, and gave him his list of targets (One of whom was a completely innocent man whose company had been falsely accused of aiding in a crime against the environment by an issue of 'The Earth First Journal').

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

You mean these groups?
ISIS
Al Qaeda
Boko Haram
Al-Shabaab
Black Panthers
Antifa
Communist Party
Neo-Nazis
KKK
PETA
ALF
ELF

Occupy Wall Street

[Mr Mannn]

Stoooooooopid question time.

Is there ANY Bill of Rights freedom or right that DU-grade Progs would not readily abridge for the sake of some political expediency?

NO. It is very clear even at DI where liberals are muted somewhat due to conservative reason.
Every single right in the Constitution has been attacked at one time or another for getting in the way of the Liberal agenda. A free people able to vote out Democrats is a threat to liberals.

obama laid the groundwork for a tyrant. Hillary was to usher in the new Reich of total liberal control. Donald Trump foiled those plans. 

every now and then the mask slips. the OP is just one of them.

[SVPete]

NO. It is very clear even at DI where liberals are muted somewhat due to conservative reason.
Every single right in the Constitution has been attacked at one time or another for getting in the way of the Liberal agenda. A free people able to vote out Democrats is a threat to liberals.
...

That very thought occurred to me yesterday. I realized that were one to create an itemized list of every right and freedom recognized by the Bill of Rights (and the Constitution), one could easily cite where Progs advocated violating that right/freedom outright, restricting it so severely as to make it meaningless, or redefining it out of existence.

[FunkyZero]

Do you know what the acronym OPSEC means?

well I wasn't EXPECTING an answer.
Almost every DUmmy is so off the rails, they all look like moles

[thundley4]

OBenario4 (94 posts)
21. Good on you.

Freedom of speech is not an absolute right. People using freedom of speech to try to take away liberties and rights of other groups shouldn't be allowed.

Democrat politicians should be banned from speaking. Everything they want limits the rights and freedoms of taxpaying citizens.

[Ptarmigan]

Don't forget Earth First.
Their writings have openly encouraged violence and acts of terrorism too many times to count. They were what inspired the Unabomber, and gave him his list of targets (One of whom was a completely innocent man whose company had been falsely accused of aiding in a crime against the environment by an issue of 'The Earth First Journal').

 

Occupy Wall Street

 

[freedumb2003b]

You mean these groups?
ISIS
Al Qaeda
Boko Haram
Al-Shabaab
Black Panthers
Antifa
Communist Party
Neo-Nazis
KKK
PETA
ALF
ELF

*ahem*
DU

[SVPete]

It's a fertile field, so to speak. But like Rush used to say, a few ultra-liberals should be kept in museums as warnings to the future.

[Ptarmigan]

*ahem*
DU

*ahem*
DU

Silly me!